DUST Search - There is a problem I think its time we talked about.

Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:

Himiko Kuronaga wrote:

When you watch another player move in Dust, it isn't really movement as much as it is teleporting one meter at a time. When trying to hit a target at range this is made even more apparent, as "correct" sharp shooting involves fluid movement prediction. Ask a sniper what kind of targets they hit the most and it will usually be someone who is either standing completely still, or running in a very long straight line.

Miss a lethal shot, and the target will become aware and start changing directions rapidly which results in micro teleportation. Something nearly impossible to predict, and the kill becomes more about blind luck than skill.

In the past, towards the early Uprising patches this problem with movement affected vehicles heavily. They would stutter and teleport about as if you were watching an old claymation film. This problem is currently affecting infantry hard, however. And the better the game performs in terms of frame rate, the more apparent the micro teleportation becomes.

No longer can jagged movement be blamed on simply a poor frame rate. I think it's time we addressed this problem and got it some serious attention.

I don't get this issue very often. Play on your own region's server and/or upgrade internet. Blink


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Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5804	Posted - 2015.04.29 21:39:00 - [1] - Quote When you watch another player move in Dust, it isn't really movement as much as it is teleporting one meter at a time. When trying to hit a target at range this is made even more apparent, as "correct" sharp shooting involves fluid movement prediction. Ask a sniper what kind of targets they hit the most and it will usually be someone who is either standing completely still, or running in a very long straight line. Miss a lethal shot, and the target will become aware and start changing directions rapidly which results in micro teleportation. Something nearly impossible to predict, and the kill becomes more about blind luck than skill. In the past, towards the early Uprising patches this problem with movement affected vehicles heavily. They would stutter and teleport about as if you were watching an old claymation film. This problem is currently affecting infantry hard, however. And the better the game performs in terms in terms of frame rate, the more apparent the micro teleportation becomes. No longer can jagged movement be blamed on simply a poor frame rate. I think it's time we addressed this problem and got it some serious attention. Usually banned for being too awesome.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5804	Posted - 2015.04.29 22:10:00 - [2] - Quote 7th Son 7 wrote: PS4 While I support the notion of PS4 it actually wouldn't do anything to this problem at all. This is a problem with code, not performance. Usually banned for being too awesome.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5810	Posted - 2015.04.29 23:02:00 - [3] - Quote .... right, well I'd like to TRY to keep this on topic guys... Usually banned for being too awesome.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5812	Posted - 2015.04.29 23:50:00 - [4] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: On topic. Is this a general game animation coding issue or net coding? Im very bad at actual code so im trying to understand where the problem is coming from Netcode, I believe. It appears as though the game tries to represent movement prediction by showing movement in certain directions and at certain speeds in timed intervals. When it predicts incorrectly, by the next interval the player in question "teleports" in the actual direction he moved, which can be quite a distance away from a persons crosshair. Usually banned for being too awesome.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5814	Posted - 2015.04.29 23:59:00 - [5] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: On topic. Is this a general game animation coding issue or net coding? Im very bad at actual code so im trying to understand where the problem is coming from Netcode, I believe. It appears as though the game tries to represent movement prediction by showing movement in certain directions and at certain speeds in timed intervals. When it predicts incorrectly, by the next interval the player in question "teleports" in the actual direction he moved, which can be quite a distance away from a persons crosshair. Can tweaking packet size and/or send-receive rates affect this in theory? Couldn't say for sure what results in the best outcome. I have a decent understanding of the theory behind FPS netcode, but I'm far from an expert. Increasing the refresh rate can result in more accurate movement portrayal, but there there is a cost. Where that cost hits hardest, only CCP knows. Usually banned for being too awesome.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5815	Posted - 2015.04.30 00:14:00 - [6] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: On topic. Is this a general game animation coding issue or net coding? Im very bad at actual code so im trying to understand where the problem is coming from Netcode, I believe. It appears as though the game tries to represent movement prediction by showing movement in certain directions and at certain speeds in timed intervals. When it predicts incorrectly, by the next interval the player in question "teleports" in the actual direction he moved, which can be quite a distance away from a persons crosshair. Can tweaking packet size and/or send-receive rates affect this in theory? Couldn't say for sure what results in the best outcome. I have a decent understanding of the theory behind FPS netcode, but I'm far from an expert. Increasing the refresh rate can result in more accurate movement portrayal, but there there is a cost. Where that cost hits hardest, only CCP knows. Could there be a relation between our teleport issues and TQs calculator sequence/per second we all lovingly refer to as 'ticks'? I know im asking alot of questions but you seem to know what youre talking about and knowledge is my own personal jesus/crack. The tick indeed functions in a similar manner. Dust simply happens to tick faster, and it seems as though the "tick rate" may be based on immediate proximity. Usually banned for being too awesome.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5823	Posted - 2015.04.30 02:43:00 - [7] - Quote Can you guys drop the platform war crap, please? We have that in like every other thread. Thanks. I'm serious about this issue and I don't appreciate it being blobbed out by some nonsense. NO ONE is talking about this and its kind of a big deal. That worries me. Usually banned for being too awesome.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5829	Posted - 2015.04.30 04:55:00 - [8] - Quote Good post. Yes, I do appreciate the effort it takes in solving these problems. I suppose at this point I could go into the blame game of why Dust is designed a certain way with its netcode when the rest of the industry seems to have gone in a much different (and superior) direction, but that would get us nowhere. At some point, someone decided to go this route. It's a thing, and it happened. Dust has a very small team now, and only they know whether or not they have enough programming manpower to dedicate to this issue. I would imagine as this runs on UE3 (albeit modified) there should already be theoretically applicable solutions. I'm sure its not as easy as "copy and paste netcode here" especially as we now have aim assist designed around this somewhat screwed up movement prediction, but it seems like if there's anything deserving the manhours its this. Usually banned for being too awesome.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5831	Posted - 2015.04.30 05:52:00 - [9] - Quote Seed Dren wrote: (Hopes the hilmar hears you.) I'd settle for the Rattati or the Rouge. This is a bit below Hilmar's paygrade. Usually banned for being too awesome.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5832	Posted - 2015.04.30 06:06:00 - [10] - Quote SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: 7th Son 7 wrote: PS4 While I support the notion of PS4 it actually wouldn't do anything to this problem at all. This is a problem with code, not performance. this is absolutely an issue with performance You don't get it. If the game locked up during really bad frame rate sessions it could send bad signals and people could ghost out. That's common in all games, really. But that's not what is happening here. Even at 30 frames perfect, its bad netcode. Not a hardware performance thing. Usually banned for being too awesome.

Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5832	Posted - 2015.04.30 06:14:00 - [11] - Quote Sometimes I think this community is too dumb to talk about certain things. And sometimes I'm completely sure of it. smh. Usually banned for being too awesome.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5844	Posted - 2015.04.30 18:57:00 - [12] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: Unfortunately the core of the game was coded on a rush, and it doesn't help Dust at all. Rattati and his dev team can try fixing small things here and there, do some tweaks, but it wont change the core of the game. The servers are also not made for a FPS as Kal said, which creates huge differences between what the client sees (you) and what the server registers. It would need a real investment in time and money for the devs to fix all this. IMO it's worth it, but a bit late now.. That part is not entirely correct from what I understand. Dust does not run off of TQ. it runs off of regionally placed servers which simply happen to be linked up to TQ, and trade information with it. Usually banned for being too awesome.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5852	Posted - 2015.04.30 22:47:00 - [13] - Quote Devs have stated previously that it's not using the same hardware as TQ. I don't know where you're getting information to the contrary. They have also stated that Dust has never at any phase been playable on Carbon. In high end PC's they could hardly put two player models in the same room without melting the cards, and that was just with EVE. Imagine an entire battlefield like that? Haha, no. That was an urban myth which started during a very early presentation when a dev misspoke. The reality is that the game had been running on UE3 the entire time, but at that phase was running on PC. Prior to that it was being experimented on as both an RTS game, as well as a single player shooter involving a Gallente operative. As far as priorities go, I would still rank this as top tier. If you don't have fluid movement, you have teleportation. If you have teleportation, you don't have a legitimate FPS experience. You simply cannot track a teleporting target and that defeats the most fundamental part of a high health tracking shooter. It doesn't matter what they stack on top of it if that part of the game is broken. Now here is some food for thought. The game hasn't always been this way. Why do you think that is, and would you assume it cannot be reversed? Usually banned for being too awesome.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 5855	Posted - 2015.05.01 00:29:00 - [14] - Quote Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: When you watch another player move in Dust, it isn't really movement as much as it is teleporting one meter at a time. When trying to hit a target at range this is made even more apparent, as "correct" sharp shooting involves fluid movement prediction. Ask a sniper what kind of targets they hit the most and it will usually be someone who is either standing completely still, or running in a very long straight line. Miss a lethal shot, and the target will become aware and start changing directions rapidly which results in micro teleportation. Something nearly impossible to predict, and the kill becomes more about blind luck than skill. In the past, towards the early Uprising patches this problem with movement affected vehicles heavily. They would stutter and teleport about as if you were watching an old claymation film. This problem is currently affecting infantry hard, however. And the better the game performs in terms of frame rate, the more apparent the micro teleportation becomes. No longer can jagged movement be blamed on simply a poor frame rate. I think it's time we addressed this problem and got it some serious attention. I don't get this issue very often. Play on your own region's server and/or upgrade internet. Yes, you do. Don't be derpy. Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Can I just sperg "NETCODE HARDER!" at devs until i get bored of doing that? Sure. Usually banned for being too awesome.