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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5884
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Posted - 2015.04.20 09:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
All players on a team, including ringers must deploy their warbarges to a planet in order to attack it. Corps should also prepare for possibility of dc's and have players deployed to planet on standby. Warbarge flotilla exists in space over target planet. If your warbarge in the flotilla becomes damaged by an EVE capsuleer, you will have a longer vehicle call time / increased warbarge orbital support cost.
Players may queue movement to planet ahead of time and participate in public and FW contracts at any time.
@JadekMenaheim
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5884
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Posted - 2015.04.20 11:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
Added a new point about retreat timer activation.
@JadekMenaheim
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2638
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Posted - 2015.04.20 11:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
I absolutely loathe the idea of having dust players and eve players attack each other. Asymmetrical combat between games is not a good idea. I'd much, much rather have cooperative goals between eve and dust.
That said I'm not sure what 'problem' your thread is trying to address, in fact it sounds like a lot of contrived mechanics created for the sake of being contrived and existing.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5884
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Posted - 2015.04.20 11:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm exploring an idea to bring EVE players on as a defensive/counter-defensive force against against Raids and PC attacks. It's networked into the idea of Implant Production in this larger topic.
@JadekMenaheim
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2640
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Posted - 2015.04.20 11:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Oh, that topic. Yeah I thought that was pretty dumb too. Sp isn't currency.
All I see this current idea encouraging is corps having a few players that multibox and go out to one specific region of lowsec and attack 'warbarges' with stealth bombers or destroyers.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5884
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Posted - 2015.04.20 11:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:Oh, that topic. Yeah I thought that was pretty dumb too. Sp isn't currency. Passive SP, no. Active and Boosted SP, yes. Mina, our bodies are filled with Jovian space magic. Is it really much of a leap to think actively attuned combat implants in our bodies can be extracted for some kind of resource harvesting mechanic?
@JadekMenaheim
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5884
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Posted - 2015.04.20 11:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:All I see this current idea encouraging is corps having a few players that multibox and go out to one specific region of lowsec and attack 'warbarges' with stealth bombers or destroyers. Players can still attack and raid planets, but if they don't have defensive EVE support they run the risk of having their match times cut shorter (the 15 in-match 10 out-of-match, is perfectly debatable). More players deployed over that planet can fill vacancies.
@JadekMenaheim
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2640
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Posted - 2015.04.20 11:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:Oh, that topic. Yeah I thought that was pretty dumb too. Sp isn't currency. Passive SP, no. Active and Boosted SP, yes. Mina, our bodies are filled with Jovian space magic. Is it really much of a leap to think actively attuned combat implants in our bodies can be extracted for some kind of resource harvesting mechanic?
Just because something 'can' be done, doesn't mean it should be. Straight up being able to buy SP (even if it's sold by other players) is THE DEFINITION of paying to win.
It's also far less jovian space magic and more quantum entanglement IIRC, and that information is personal to the user.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5884
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Posted - 2015.04.20 11:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:Just because something 'can' be done, doesn't mean it should be. Straight up being able to buy SP (even if it's sold by other players) is [b]THE DEFINITION[b] of paying to win.
It's also far less jovian space magic and more quantum entanglement IIRC, and that information is personal to the user. I'll say it again.
Jadek Menaheim wrote:You're not killed by skills on the skill tree. Even if you had a maxed skill tree it does not guarantee you are going to be any better at defeating an enemy in combat with say 10m SP. The only advantage you have is 'personally' being able to respond better to a play-counter play situation. Will well thoughtfully organized squads, this need to be a one man army diminishes.
If CCP put skills or various high powered weapons (without a similar equivalent) behind a paywall or situation that required paying or unrealistically grinding to achieve goal, that would arguably be pay to win.
@JadekMenaheim
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2640
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Posted - 2015.04.20 11:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
You're right, it's not a 'pay to win', it's a 'pay to be competitive', which is arguably worse. FOTM chasers will be able to chase FOTM even faster.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5884
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Posted - 2015.04.20 11:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Players are giving up their skills in order provide skills for another player. A percentage of skills are lost in the production process. There's a net loss in the overall system, while new players are using ISK or social connections to acquire that skill gain.
The idea of building growth of human infrastructure through word of mouth connections are designed to bring more playing and paying customers into Dust 514.
@JadekMenaheim
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5884
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Posted - 2015.04.20 11:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:FOTM chasers will be able to chase FOTM even faster. The faster they chase it, the faster it may be balanced. Please feel free to buy a respec token if you are grossly unhappy with that chase.
@JadekMenaheim
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2643
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Posted - 2015.04.20 11:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
I disagree with both of your ideas on very fundamental levels. I feel that they have deep and immitigable flaws inherent to them. I see little value in them and have yet to see an explanation from you that provides them with value. If I had time and energy to dedicate towards it I might try to highlight the deep flaws within these ideas, but you seem convinced that both of your ideas for some reason both have worth and need to exist.
I apologize that I am unable to articulate these flaws without great amounts of additional effort.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5884
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Posted - 2015.04.20 11:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Planetary Weapons If players do not want to see EVE support as a component to attacking Dust warbarges another course of action could be to use skyfire orbital cannons activated from the ground to target Dust warbarges in space.
@JadekMenaheim
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5884
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Posted - 2015.04.20 12:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
@MINA Longstrike If you do feel like you have the energy, I'm on board to look at your feedback and respond.
@JadekMenaheim
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Vyzion Eyri
WarRavens
2819
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Posted - 2015.04.20 13:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
Can you elaborate on the player retreat timer? How I'm understanding it, when your personal warbarge is critically damaged in space, you have 15 minutes to end the game or you're ejected?
That might be a little too extreme if that's the case; the stronger EVE force would decide battles in DUST then. I mean, 15 minutes is certainly a lot of time, but if the flotilla is caught 5 minutes before the battle, has its HP chipped down, I don't know. Lots of things could go wrong there.
Besides that, I certainly support brainstorming any ideas that strengthens the EVE-DUST link. I personally thought of having orbital district defense turrets, or something similar, that enemy EVE support would either have to tank or dismantle before preparing to drop orbital strikes.
> Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback
5717
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Posted - 2015.04.20 14:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Warbarge in EVE SpaceAll players on a team, including ringers must deploy their warbarges to a planet in order to attack it. Corps must account for travel time in regards to force projection. Corps should also prepare for possibility of dc's and have players deployed to planet on standby. Warbarge flotilla exists in space over target planet. If your warbarge in the flotilla becomes critically damaged by an EVE capsuleer, you will have a longer vehicle call time / increased warbarge orbital support cost and a player retreat timer*. Players may queue movement to planet ahead of time and participate in public and FW contracts at any time. Headshot the Dust FCAdditionally, if your warbarge enters critical damage, bastion mode activates signaling a player retreat timer of 15 minutes if activated while in match, or 10 minutes if outside battleground. (This time can be adjusted to however long it takes to end a skirmish match with 5 points continuously capped). Your warbarge is also named in space, allowing Dust players to relay info to EVE pilots to determine which warbarge to concentrate fire upon if they want to activate a retreat timer on the Dust Squad leader. This is what happens when your timer runs out.This player can no longer enter the match, but their vacancy may be filled by another player orbiting the planet. Planetary WeaponsIf players do not want to see EVE support as a component to attacking Dust warbarges the another course of action could be to use skyfire orbital cannons activated from the ground to target Dust warbarges in space. These planetary weapons could be displayed as 2d textures in the map background. Control could be random, spent with warpoints, or specifically controlled via MCC commander. Warbarge DefensesYou warbarge acts as an NPC ship with light or medium defensive capabilities. These weapon modules are produced on specific district types. They will help defend against small, lower powered fleets; however, it is best to enlist EVE side support for defensive countermeasures. When your warbarge is critically damaged and placed into bastion mode, your weapons modules are destroyed and must be refitted with new ones.
Nice idea. But It's not going to happen.
CCP has no intention to work on the link from EVE-side anymore. Dust is on a limited lifespan and its apparently considered a misuse of resources to put any devtime into it from their side.
Couldn't tell you who made that decision though. If Dust moves to a better platform and catches a second wind, maybe it'll have a chance. But until then, might as well forget about it.
Usually banned for being too awesome.
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3177
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Posted - 2015.04.20 17:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
Maybe a $1000 computer running Legion could do that.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Kain Spero
Negative-Feedback
5034
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Posted - 2015.04.20 17:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Nice idea. But It's not going to happen.
CCP has no intention to work on the link from EVE-side anymore. Dust is on a limited lifespan and its apparently considered a misuse of resources to put any devtime into it from their side.
Couldn't tell you who made that decision though. If Dust moves to a better platform and catches a second wind, maybe it'll have a chance. But until then, might as well forget about it.
Sadly this.
For now our best bet is to think of how to improve Dust within itself without any Eve-side dev support.
The first think I'd do if we got Eve dev support though would be to allow open orbital support (currently locked to corp and/or alliance membership).
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
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