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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5797
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Posted - 2015.04.17 04:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Inspired by a conversation with Eruditus 920.
Working on the same principle of SP production component, a reaver shard builds at an incrimental level each day (capping out at 2 days). When activated it absorbs a set amount of unallocated sp (this amount is dictated by the level of the module).
The reaver shard is placed into the player's inventory. It is an item that can be sold to another player which they may inject for a fast timed SP boost equal to the grade of the produced SP implant.
There are five grades of SP Reaver Implants:
E - 50,000 SP
D - 100,000 SP
C - 250,000 SP
B - 500,000 SP
A - 1,000,000 SP
SP placed into reaver module is all produced by the player via active and passive player and it is time capped. A veteran player may buy a skill reset in order to free up sp for timed harvesting revenue stream.
@JadekMenaheim
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5798
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Posted - 2015.04.17 05:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
After a point there's little you can really do with megatons of Skill Points. This allows veterans to sell off brain matter to support more continuous proto suit play in a specialize role...until the day of reckoning comes when you've sold off your organs to support this addiction.
@JadekMenaheim
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Godin Thekiller
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
3100
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Posted - 2015.04.17 05:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Let me get this straight: You take your SP, and make it into boosters?
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5799
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Posted - 2015.04.17 05:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yes, unallocated sp goes into a booster. Size of booster is determined by your warbarge module level. Takes 2 days to produce. You sell it. New owner plugs it in and full amount of SP in implant becomes available after 1 day.
@JadekMenaheim
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Godin Thekiller
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
3102
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Posted - 2015.04.17 05:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Yes, unallocated sp goes into a booster. Size of booster is determined by your warbarge module level. Takes 2 days to produce. You sell it. New owner plugs it in and full amount of SP in implant becomes available after 1 day.
huh. Sounds interesting. Cool, I'll bite.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5799
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Posted - 2015.04.17 05:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Process may encourage some vets to buy respec tokens in order to free up sp to use as new source of income via trade. Players scammed in deals for their SP will produce the greatest tears.
@JadekMenaheim
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5799
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Posted - 2015.04.17 06:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Corporations could also use this as a system to pool SP resources to create skill-maxed champions that wage bloody omni solider war for them.
Others like Viktor Hadah Jr may use their wealth to become an omni super mercenary by harnessing the SP sweat of the poors in exchange for a comfortable wage.
@JadekMenaheim
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Regis Blackbird
DUST University Ivy League
750
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Posted - 2015.04.17 06:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
Not really fond of the idea, sorry. SP is (and should remain) character specific. |
Godin Thekiller
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
3102
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Posted - 2015.04.17 07:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Regis Blackbird wrote:Not really fond of the idea, sorry. SP is (and should remain) character specific.
For what reason should it?
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5800
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Posted - 2015.04.17 07:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Regis Blackbird wrote:Not really fond of the idea, sorry. SP is (and should remain) character specific. How I imagine skill application works you wouldn't be transferring skills between players.
1. System removes skill points (function players have found begrudgingly exists). 2. Information token is given to player, and that player can in turn given token to another player. 3. Token tells system to increase skill passive skill gain by x amount. (this implant would plug into passive booster slot).
What is your primary concern of skill fluidity?
@JadekMenaheim
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SgtMajSquish MLBJ
Consolidated Dust
422
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Posted - 2015.04.17 08:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
NO
Just because your SPEEDTEST.net shows a good connection, doesn't mean you are not a lagging f*ck
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5805
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Posted - 2015.04.17 08:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Personally, I would suggest removing the weapon damage warbarge module and replacing it with this. Having a weapon damage modifier that much more quickly accessible for $$$ compared to slow progression without $$$ payment are risky waters to tread.
@JadekMenaheim
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5805
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Posted - 2015.04.17 08:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote:NO Doesn't give me much feedback to work off on. Do you feel this can be exploited?
@JadekMenaheim
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SgtMajSquish MLBJ
Consolidated Dust
424
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Posted - 2015.04.17 08:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
1) Skills are learned by the individual, hence the lack of cross skilling over alts
2) SP is not a currency and never will/should be. We already have three forms of money
3)The only people to benefit are those with nothing 'worthwhile' to skill into
Just because your SPEEDTEST.net shows a good connection, doesn't mean you are not a lagging f*ck
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
5898
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Posted - 2015.04.17 08:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
What stops someone from making 50+ PSN accounts, accumulating SP and transferring it to a central account in order to have a perma-booster on their main?
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5806
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Posted - 2015.04.17 08:53:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:What stops someone from making 50+ PSN accounts, accumulating SP and transferring it to a central account in order to have a perma-booster on their main? Setting the module far enough down the warbarge progression path. If you put it in the sixth slot it would take an exorbitant amount of money to pay for all your alts to have that module unlocked. Grinding that many alts to have your sixth module unlocked to level 5 would simply be unfathomable.
@JadekMenaheim
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5806
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Posted - 2015.04.17 08:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
@SgtMajSquish MLBJ For 1 and 2, I'd argue we shouldn't box ourselves into design conventions when different ways of thinking may offer dynamic and engaging ways for more people to engage with gameplay.
In regards to point 3, "The only people to benefit are those with nothing 'worthwhile' to skill into," this is true. When you're a veteran with enough skills progression become horizontal, and reaching for level 5 skills can be tiresome. Allowing people to transfer allotments of their own skills over a period of time to their friends who just might be trying out Dust offer some exciting possibilities. It encourages people to expand their game network by helping their friends get into the game faster. The initial grind as a new player can be painful...getting up to a threshold of 7-15m skill points when you start to become more competitive in a specialized role.
@JadekMenaheim
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Godin Thekiller
Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback
3104
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Posted - 2015.04.17 09:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
SgtMajSquish MLBJ wrote:NO
yes.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5806
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Posted - 2015.04.17 09:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:What stops someone from making 50+ PSN accounts, accumulating SP and transferring it to a central account in order to have a perma-booster on their main? Setting the module far enough down the warbarge progression path. If you put it in the sixth slot it would take an exorbitant amount of money to pay for all your alts to have that module unlocked. Grinding that many alts to have your sixth module unlocked to level 5 would simply be unfathomable. Skills after a certain point really don't have a pressing significance. Sure, you may have more play-counterplay options at your disposal. This system of incremental skill transfer incentivizes player recruitment into dust as one player can support the initial push of a new player to get into important skills that help make them more competitive--taking once what took weeks and month into a couple days. If the new player screws up they have a respec token to sort things out anew. Yes, this does run counter to some of the entrenched principals of CCPs EVE Online, but we're trying to grow numbers with this Dust. For this to hold up, it would be essential for the Devs to remove passive production of warbarge components from the warbarge. Or don't allow them to be traded. I've run through the numbers here.
@JadekMenaheim
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Regis Blackbird
DUST University Ivy League
751
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Posted - 2015.04.17 12:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Regis Blackbird wrote:Not really fond of the idea, sorry. SP is (and should remain) character specific. For what reason should it?
Just speaking my personal opinion of course.
For me SP represent individual character development by time and skill (which in Dust can be accelerated by boosters). You can not buy SP straight up from the market for AUR (for a reason), as this would be the purest definition of pay to win.
However, this proposal suggests just that. I can create a new character -> Buy AUR -> Buy AUR gear -> Sell AUR gear for ISK -> Buy SP for ISK. (Ok, the path is longer...but it opens up a can of worms I don't think we want to open)
Even if the SP tokens work exactly like normal Boosters (I.e allow players to manufacture Boosters) I think its a bad idea, since it would severely cut into AUR booster sales (which I think is still the most lucrative business CCP have at the moment)
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5807
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Posted - 2015.04.17 13:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
You're not killed by skills on the skill tree. Even if you had a maxed skill tree it does not guarantee you are going to be any better at defeating an enemy in combat with say 10m SP. The only advantage you have is 'personally' being able to respond better to a play-counter play situation. Will well thoughtfully organized squads, this need to be a one man army diminishes.
If CCP put skills or various high powered weapons (without a similar equivalent) behind a paywall or situation that required paying or unrealistically griding to achieve goal, that would arguably be pay to win.
As for sharing tech, honestly, our bodies are filled with Jovian space magic. It's really not much of a leap that there is some kind of aspect to the implant tech that requires harvesting part of our bodies to improve the functionality of another mercenary. There's the whole Drifter incursion going on right now EVE side where they are harvesting capsuleers corpses for the gear inside their head to build new bodies.
Regis Blackbird wrote:Even if the SP tokens work exactly like normal Boosters (I.e allow players to manufacture Boosters) I think its a bad idea, since it would severely cut into AUR booster sales (which I think is still the most lucrative business CCP have at the moment) For sake of clarity. Implants = the sp units you are extracting Boosters = modules you buy from current NPC market
You are making implants from your own unallocated SP pool. I see players being driven to buy more boosters in order to grind out their SP cap to produce more implants. The impetus for making more tradable implants is numerous. A player may want to help a friend get into Dust faster. The ceo of a corporation may use them as a loyalty incentive. Another individual may use skill points they feel they don't necessarily need to act as income for other activities. The end-game of the skill tree is pretty slow and dull when it comes down to it. By the nature of the beast as lobby FPS it's a little difficult to add super carrier and titan class dropsuit equivalents without running into some serious balance issues. From my point of view, being able to cannibalize yourself for assets offers an exciting degree of new player freedom in the sandbox.
@JadekMenaheim
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5807
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Posted - 2015.04.17 13:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
I can see the concern is there so I am open to the idea of skill degradation through this implant creation process. f.ex you pull out 500,000 sp from your head, with a degradation of 10%. Recipient gets 450,000 SP to inject or sell.
Degradation could also be based on a factor of player chosen production time. 1 Day production time = 15% degradation 15 Days production time = 4% degradation
@JadekMenaheim
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Regis Blackbird
DUST University Ivy League
753
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Posted - 2015.04.17 13:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:You're not killed by skills on the skill tree. Even if you had a maxed skill tree it does not guarantee you are going to be any better at defeating an enemy in combat with say 10m SP
This we can agree on ^ I am approaching 50m, and I still suck at defeating enemies
Jadek Menaheim wrote: For sake of clarity. Implants = the sp units you are extracting Boosters = modules you buy from current NPC market
This was also clear. What I am basically against is the speed the implants release the SP (1-2 days?). This would mean if I have "a lot" of ISK I could technically buy many A grade implants and unlock millions of SP in a very short time (compared to boosters). So if you spend a ton of real money (to get the ISK), you can jump ahead a person who played for years (and even payed AUR for regular boosters).
Even if you make the implants release the SP as slowly as normal boosters (thus addressing my concern above), it will eat away from the normal booster sales which CCP relies on for the continuos support of the game.
But yeah, from a lore perspective I see nothing againt it. On a business perspective though
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State
1961
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Posted - 2015.04.17 14:25:00 -
[24] - Quote
This discussion is interesting , I wish there was a way to move existing SP's of a player to another as well but I wish it could be done like this :
I create an alt character and wasn't happy with my main , so I transferred my SP's from my main to my alt but by doing this I would have to delete my main character after the SP transferal .
It's like a race / name change if so desired .
Your idea is interesting though .
Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed . #PubsShouldBeRandomPlayers
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5810
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Posted - 2015.04.18 00:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
Regis Blackbird wrote:This was also clear. What I am basically against is the speed the implants release the SP (1-2 days?). This would mean if I have "a lot" of ISK I could technically buy many A grade implants and unlock millions of SP in a very short time (compared to boosters). So if you spend a ton of real money (to get the ISK), you can jump ahead a person who played for years (and even payed AUR for regular boosters). Even if you make the implants release the SP as slowly as normal boosters (thus addressing my concern above), it will eat away from the normal booster sales which CCP relies on for the continuous support of the game. But yeah, from a lore perspective I see nothing againt it. On a business perspective though Speed release is an important aspect to consider. There may be other ways to frame the position of jumping ahead. First, I don't see harm in being able to jump your character ahead with ISK, even if you sell AUR assets to other players for ISK (the impact of selling the best AUR items, turrets, to Jara Kumora is negligible for the amount that you have to pay). I would offer that we have an earned experience and experience held data point on the character screen. These data points would factor into the new matchmaking system.
Injection of implants should be fast, but production of high grade implants should be slow. If production is rushed to transfer sp off of an alt many of those skill points will be lost. Additionally, if we are using the warbarge progression system, it may be unlikely that you'd have the Implant Production module unlocked because of how many components it would take to unlock at its position farther down the module line.
As for boosters sales, I go back to thinking big picture. This system is designed to enhance recruitment of actual people. You build skill points on your main by eating away at the weekly cap with your passive, active, and instant boosters. You take this unallocated SP and turn it into a resource that can be used to get this main player's friends into the game faster, or incentivize other Dust players to join this implant producers coalition in return for compensation with implants. This implant producer needs human infrastructure in order to build command points for their corporation to participate in more activities and expand their sphere of influence.
The new players brought on board by the first person may also be tasked with buying boosters to build unallocated SP which in turn is used as a recruitment incentive to bring on more people. It's becoming a great big pyramid scheme that is player run, but bringing in active players and revenue to CCP. With the advances being made on cosmetic items like SKINs, having more people in your game will likely lead to more of these non-game impacting items being sold.
@JadekMenaheim
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5810
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Posted - 2015.04.18 00:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:This discussion is interesting , I wish there was a way to move existing SP's of a player to another as well but I wish it could be done like this :
I create an alt character and wasn't happy with my main , so I transferred my SP's from my main to my alt but by doing this I would have to delete my main character after the SP transferal .
It's like a race / name change if so desired .
Your idea is interesting though .
Hypothetically speaking, if I had connected 16 PSN accounts to Dust and activated all 3 profiles on those accounts, I'd have 48 profiles collectively totaling 816 million skill points. I have no problem killing those accounts to transfer SP. Could loyalty rank be the factor which prevents me from transferring those skill points to anyone? Loyalty rank is heavily influenced by AUR at the moment so this could become a contentious point for players.
@JadekMenaheim
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5815
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Posted - 2015.04.18 03:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Do consider the implications this can have for veterans being able to use their skill points to bring new players and recruits into PC 'faster.'
I will argue that it doesn't ruin things to alter the current player progression model, i.e. grind pubs to cut your teeth for several months earning active/passive SP, migrate to FW, and participate in the 'end-game' of PC.
It shifts player progression from upfront grind and waiting, to focusing on learning game mechanics and developing human infrastructure. If players are given poor instruction on how to spend their skill points by fellow players or they want to try a new specialization focus skill respecs are available to purchase.
@JadekMenaheim
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
11511
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Posted - 2015.04.18 04:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
This actually sounds awesome.
Eve Online Invite
https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
5817
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Posted - 2015.04.18 04:12:00 -
[29] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:This actually sounds awesome. There are a lot of variables that need to be carefully considered to make sure the system can't be gamed by alts. Security features to asses.
-Loyalty Rank Lock? -Placement on warbarge progression path? -Time to produce and inject skill implants?
Please consider and discuss these factors in how they should integrate to produce a secure system.
@JadekMenaheim
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State
1965
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Posted - 2015.04.18 04:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:This discussion is interesting , I wish there was a way to move existing SP's of a player to another as well but I wish it could be done like this :
I create an alt character and wasn't happy with my main , so I transferred my SP's from my main to my alt but by doing this I would have to delete my main character after the SP transferal .
It's like a race / name change if so desired .
Your idea is interesting though .
Hypothetically speaking, if I had connected 16 PSN accounts to Dust and activated all 3 profiles on those accounts, I'd have 48 profiles collectively totaling 816 million skill points. I have no problem killing those accounts to transfer SP. Could loyalty rank be the factor which prevents me from transferring those skill points to anyone? Loyalty rank is heavily influenced by AUR at the moment so this could become a contentious point for players. True , true .
Never really thought about how big of an impact that LR has but the upcoming market I guess just boosted that importance .
Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed . #PubsShouldBeRandomPlayers
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