DUST Search - NPC market pay-to-win?

Joseph Ridgeson wrote:

Atlas Donovan wrote:

I think a lot of people play eve and use isk transfer guys to make their isk

ISk is endless in eve same as dust and you can make 100 million ISK a day mining and then use isk transfer guys to turn it into dust isk magically

Idk how that works wish I had millions and millions of isk :-/

The rates dictate everything though. 100 million gets you 8 with this guy. Plexes are about 800,000 million at the moment so you could just spend 30 dollars to 133 million DUST isk, assuming you can trust the person with "30 dollars worth of stuff."

A lot of people get their money by just playing the game. Jeez, when I first started I figured out real quick
X / Y = Z
X = Average ISK in a match
Y = Average numbers of deaths
Z = Cost of Suit

Plug in a conservative number for X, a liberal number for Y, and you get a cost of your suits. Make your suit cost less than Z and you have infinite ISK basically.

If you burned through Ambushes and pulled in 120k ISK in an 8 minute game, you are bringing in 900K an hour. Do better than that, say 150, and you are at 1,125,000 ISK an hour. Normalize that to having to wait for games, call it 6 an hour, you are still pulling in over 700k+ an hour. It all adds up.

Of course, if you never ever die, you can use the most expensive stuff in the game and still make out money.

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Her Chosen Grade No.2 241	Posted - 2015.04.15 15:05:00 - [1] - Quote So, when "passive" ISK was shut down from district ownership. It slowly evolved the game. You saw corps basically die, and traditional protostompers all but disappear... Corporations that were on Nyian San's payroll basically became non-threats in public matches; Nyan Chan, LORD-BRITISH, etc Squads weren't eager to spend a collective 6-10 million ISK just to win a public contract battle. But since the NPC market, I've seen the trend happen again. Non-PC playing players and corps throwing millions of ISK into public contract battles. Where is this ISK coming from? They aren't selling Templar BPOs, ringing for PCs, have no districts to farm, AFK-ing doesn't work... Where did all of these players start getting a bankroll to afford 1M ISK matches? I've watched players lose 2-3 proto tanks in a pub, or lose 5-15 proto suits, crash ADS, after ADS, etc... it doesn't add up. You can argue all you want, but DUST has always been a a pay-to-win game. But this "economy" is broken. Taking away passive PC ISK was nota good idea, however the new payout system is a good replacement. So, I'm asking each of you (non-PC players); where is your ISK coming from? STRONG BOX ROLE CALL
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 7068	Posted - 2015.04.15 15:09:00 - [2] - Quote Proto suits are pretty cheap, outside logistics. At most, they'll cost around 160k ISK. With a few matches, you would be able to run a full match with proto, and that's if you're broke. If you have a lot of LP, it's even easier. If you don't die much in a proto suit, then you're also saving as well. Get rich, scrub.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 9218	Posted - 2015.04.15 15:09:00 - [3] - Quote Her Chosen wrote: So, I'm asking each of you (non-PC players); where is your ISK coming from? Public matches, completing daily missions, and selling junk that my daily strongbox gives me. I can run advanced all the time without losing ISK. I can even afford a proto fit every match if I know my WP total is pretty high. @Ripley_Riley
Her Chosen Grade No.2 241	Posted - 2015.04.15 15:15:00 - [4] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Proto suits are pretty cheap, outside logistics. At most, they'll cost around 160k ISK. With a few matches, you would be able to run a full match with proto, and that's if you're broke. If you have a lot of LP, it's even easier. If you don't die much in a proto suit, then you're also saving as well. Get rich, scrub. I am rich... very rich... like I give away 50-150 million ISK everyday rich.... But dying twice in a proto suit means lost profit. Dying in a FW to get a LP variant still adds up to lost profit. Vehicle users often lose profit. It doesn't add up. If you have a weekly KDR of 10-20, then I can understand it. Ambush gank squads are very profitable... But sorry proto is not profitable in pubs, as intended. I promise you that you can't run proto every spawn, every match without a third-party ISK generating system. STRONG BOX ROLE CALL
DUST Fiend 16393	Posted - 2015.04.15 15:20:00 - [5] - Quote Her Chosen wrote: Joel II X wrote: Proto suits are pretty cheap, outside logistics. At most, they'll cost around 160k ISK. With a few matches, you would be able to run a full match with proto, and that's if you're broke. If you have a lot of LP, it's even easier. If you don't die much in a proto suit, then you're also saving as well. Get rich, scrub. I am rich... very rich... like I give away 50-150 million ISK everyday rich.... But dying twice in a proto suit means lost profit. Dying in a FW to get a LP variant still adds up to lost profit. Vehicle users often lose profit. It doesn't add up. If you have a weekly KDR of 10-20, then I can understand it. Ambush gank squads are very profitable... But sorry proto is not profitable in pubs, as intended. I promise you that you can't run proto every spawn, every match without a third-party ISK generating system. Assuming that you actually DO give away that much ISK, maybe....that's where the ISK is coming from? The endless banks of days long past still being shuffled amongst the player base. Contests, Sales, Writing etc Fly Safe
Her Chosen Grade No.2 241	Posted - 2015.04.15 15:23:00 - [6] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Her Chosen wrote: Joel II X wrote: Proto suits are pretty cheap, outside logistics. At most, they'll cost around 160k ISK. With a few matches, you would be able to run a full match with proto, and that's if you're broke. If you have a lot of LP, it's even easier. If you don't die much in a proto suit, then you're also saving as well. Get rich, scrub. I am rich... very rich... like I give away 50-150 million ISK everyday rich.... But dying twice in a proto suit means lost profit. Dying in a FW to get a LP variant still adds up to lost profit. Vehicle users often lose profit. It doesn't add up. If you have a weekly KDR of 10-20, then I can understand it. Ambush gank squads are very profitable... But sorry proto is not profitable in pubs, as intended. I promise you that you can't run proto every spawn, every match without a third-party ISK generating system. Assuming that you actually DO give away that much ISK, maybe....that's where the ISK is coming from? The endless banks of days long past still being shuffled amongst the player base. lmao, I never thought of that... Well, I guess I go back to being a total a-hole :) STRONG BOX ROLE CALL
DUST Fiend 16393	Posted - 2015.04.15 15:29:00 - [7] - Quote Her Chosen wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Her Chosen wrote: Joel II X wrote: Proto suits are pretty cheap, outside logistics. At most, they'll cost around 160k ISK. With a few matches, you would be able to run a full match with proto, and that's if you're broke. If you have a lot of LP, it's even easier. If you don't die much in a proto suit, then you're also saving as well. Get rich, scrub. I am rich... very rich... like I give away 50-150 million ISK everyday rich.... But dying twice in a proto suit means lost profit. Dying in a FW to get a LP variant still adds up to lost profit. Vehicle users often lose profit. It doesn't add up. If you have a weekly KDR of 10-20, then I can understand it. Ambush gank squads are very profitable... But sorry proto is not profitable in pubs, as intended. I promise you that you can't run proto every spawn, every match without a third-party ISK generating system. Assuming that you actually DO give away that much ISK, maybe....that's where the ISK is coming from? The endless banks of days long past still being shuffled amongst the player base. lmao, I never thought of that... Well, I guess I go back to being a total a-hole :) You're more than welcome to buy me some proto tanks though ;) o7 Contests, Sales, Writing etc Fly Safe
Everything Dies Raging Wrath of the Easter Bunny 1333	Posted - 2015.04.15 15:30:00 - [8] - Quote Her Chosen wrote: So, I'm asking each of you (non-PC players); where is your ISK coming from? Sitting on about 350 million ISK and it's all come from Pubs and the old FW battles; tanks are the only way I lose money now. Honestly, making money isn't difficult at all--I don't have any BPOs or APEX suits, just cheap standard/advanced fittings. Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof
Atlas Donovan The Immortal Order 65	Posted - 2015.04.15 15:46:00 - [9] - Quote I think a lot of people play eve and use isk transfer guys to make their isk ISk is endless in eve same as dust and you can make 100 million ISK a day mining and then use isk transfer guys to turn it into dust isk magically Idk how that works wish I had millions and millions of isk :-/
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3248	Posted - 2015.04.15 15:53:00 - [10] - Quote I have about 350m all together, most of which isn't from PC (I play a lot and really only use STD gear). At about 150k a pop, I could afford almost 2.4k proto fit suits, and assuming a consistent 5 deaths per match, that's like 470 matches, not including the offsetting ISK from playing the matches. Basically, playing a bunch and budgeting your ISK can go a long way. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~

Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 262	Posted - 2015.04.15 15:56:00 - [11] - Quote I run a Scout gk.0 Six Kin combat rifle Ishukone smg Core nades 2 lex damage mods(free) Pro reactive and rep Adv cloak, kin cat, and cardio. Total is like somewhere around 300,000. It's my main and I die anywhere between 0-15 deaths in a game. 48th Special Operations Force. Twitter- @48SOF
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens 3789	Posted - 2015.04.15 16:13:00 - [12] - Quote Atlas Donovan wrote: I think a lot of people play eve and use isk transfer guys to make their isk ISk is endless in eve same as dust and you can make 100 million ISK a day mining and then use isk transfer guys to turn it into dust isk magically Idk how that works wish I had millions and millions of isk :-/ The rates dictate everything though. 100 million gets you 8 with this guy. Plexes are about 800,000 million at the moment so you could just spend 30 dollars to 133 million DUST isk, assuming you can trust the person with "30 dollars worth of stuff." A lot of people get their money by just playing the game. Jeez, when I first started I figured out real quick X / Y = Z X = Average ISK in a match Y = Average numbers of deaths Z = Cost of Suit Plug in a conservative number for X, a liberal number for Y, and you get a cost of your suits. Make your suit cost less than Z and you have infinite ISK basically. If you burned through Ambushes and pulled in 120k ISK in an 8 minute game, you are bringing in 900K an hour. Do better than that, say 150, and you are at 1,125,000 ISK an hour. Normalize that to having to wait for games, call it 6 an hour, you are still pulling in over 700k+ an hour. It all adds up. Of course, if you never ever die, you can use the most expensive stuff in the game and still make out money. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"
The Lion ElJonson 1st Legion The Dark Angels Learning Alliance 104	Posted - 2015.04.15 16:28:00 - [13] - Quote Four domination matches on the trot using starters suits (hard mode) bags me over a mill, then there's the bits of salvage, warbarge claims, and daily missions, 5 days later even after paying corp members through the rewards programme and the odd shelling out to help a player out and I usually have enough to spend on a bit of proto, I don't use any proto in pub matches just FW, don't bother with PC. I do buy Aur but its either for remaps or hotspot dropships that mysteriously explode while under fire and slamming into buildings I swear wern't there before The chat channel 'player trade' is open for adding contacts and placing item advertisements in game.
DozersMouse XIII Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1025	Posted - 2015.04.15 16:31:00 - [14] - Quote Her Chosen wrote: So, when "passive" ISK was shut down from district ownership. It slowly evolved the game. You saw corps basically die, and traditional protostompers all but disappear... Corporations that were on Nyian San's payroll basically became non-threats in public matches; Nyan Chan, LORD-BRITISH, etc Squads weren't eager to spend a collective 6-10 million ISK just to win a public contract battle. But since the NPC market, I've seen the trend happen again. Non-PC playing players and corps throwing millions of ISK into public contract battles. Where is this ISK coming from? They aren't selling Templar BPOs, ringing for PCs, have no districts to farm, AFK-ing doesn't work... Where did all of these players start getting a bankroll to afford 1M ISK matches? I've watched players lose 2-3 proto tanks in a pub, or lose 5-15 proto suits, crash ADS, after ADS, etc... it doesn't add up. You can argue all you want, but DUST has always been a a pay-to-win game. But this "economy" is broken. Taking away passive PC ISK was nota good idea, however the new payout system is a good replacement. So, I'm asking each of you (non-PC players); where is your ISK coming from? my isk comes from running bpo's and cheap effective fits for over two years now I can blow 2-3 million on a faction warfare matches or pubs and it doesn't effect me Shotgun me once, shame on me Shotgun me twice, scans on you
PADDEHATPIGEN BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 154	Posted - 2015.04.15 16:34:00 - [15] - Quote ALL beta players Got to keep ALL the ISK. They earned playing beta, they also got ALL items reimbursed at full ISK price. The day Dust 514 launched most of the beta players had 200-500 Mill. ISK. Some had a lot more. Later on some players had the PC farm and they made billions of ISK. So there are players that don't give a f... About how many ISK. They loose, they have more then enough to die 10 times in every battle they for the next 5 years in there proto/officer/state fits. This is why.
Her Chosen Grade No.2 244	Posted - 2015.04.15 17:02:00 - [16] - Quote So, my question still hasn't been answered. How do non-3rd party invested players afford to run top meta gear in public contracts? Am I just lucky and they only use proto against me and lose profit against me? That would conquer that I'm making many, many, many, many, many players go broke in this game... It still baffles me, and my common sense is telling me that it isn't adding up. ISK neds to come from somewhere. Most of the wealthy players in this game (and by most I mean ALL) did it through playing PCs and winning, taxing a corporation, and selling codes. Public match players cannot generate profit using proto gear when all they play is public. So, WHERE ARE THEY GETTING THE FUNDS TO DO IT? Also if you want ISK, and you see me in game. Ask nicely, I've almost never said no to anyone. This last week I've paid for many people's APEX suits :) STRONG BOX ROLE CALL
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 3371	Posted - 2015.04.15 17:17:00 - [17] - Quote I've been playing DUST since end of closed beta, over that time period I would estimate I have made maybe 500-600m isk in profits (not counting the handful of PC matches I used to play or my losses over that time.) I spent about 300m ish on a templar set a while back and that was the single biggest deduction to my iskies that I have ever had. Since myofibs I must have blasted a good 50-100m on proto caldari suits with myofibs and PLC`s and I still have more than 100m left. What I am trying to say here is that I am a average player, a nobody basically and I have managed to stash some isk. I am sure as hell that those who played PC a lot in the past or just anyone who has been responsible with their isk spending could have a HELL of a lot more isk and pretty much never have to care about how much they spend. I'm sure there are many many players in a similar position. Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa? SCV Ready!
Elpedo Hughes Intara Direct Action Caldari State 33	Posted - 2015.04.15 17:24:00 - [18] - Quote PADDEHATPIGEN wrote: ALL beta players Got to keep ALL the ISK. They earned playing beta, they also got ALL items reimbursed at full ISK price. The day Dust 514 launched most of the beta players had 200-500 Mill. ISK. Some had a lot more. Later on some players had the PC farm and they made billions of ISK. So there are players that don't give a f... About how many ISK. They loose, they have more then enough to die 10 times in every battle they for the next 5 years in there proto/officer/state fits. This is why. We kept the money from 5th January as that was the last ever reset, the game entered open beta on the 22nd January..... 2 and a half weeks and we all earned 200-500mill lololololololol, just no. Some of us made a hundred mill for the event where we got 100 Falchions (1.2mill tanks) that were sold for full price when CCP decided to sell everyones assets as people were moaning about not being able to sell them. Why do people write baseless sh*te?
DozersMouse XIII Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 1026	Posted - 2015.04.15 17:33:00 - [19] - Quote Her Chosen wrote: So, my question still hasn't been answered. How do non-3rd party invested players afford to run top meta gear in public contracts? Am I just lucky and they only use proto against me and lose profit against me? That would conquer that I'm making many, many, many, many, many players go broke in this game... It still baffles me, and my common sense is telling me that it isn't adding up. ISK neds to come from somewhere. Most of the wealthy players in this game (and by most I mean ALL) did it through playing PCs and winning, taxing a corporation, and selling codes. Public match players cannot generate profit using proto gear when all they play is public. So, WHERE ARE THEY GETTING THE FUNDS TO DO IT? Also if you want ISK, and you see me in game. Ask nicely, I've almost never said no to anyone. This last week I've paid for many people's APEX suits :) I told you bpo's and cheap effective fits I never pc'd in my early years of dust I just ran pubs and fw before there was lp. Over two years of grinding in these fits got me tons of isk. P.s. I can run my cheap/free suits and grind 10-15 mill isk in a day if I have the time Shotgun me once, shame on me Shotgun me twice, scans on you
Georgia Xavier Y.A.M.A.H 298	Posted - 2015.04.15 17:43:00 - [20] - Quote I run Std gear 90% of the time in pubs, I play several game and suddenly I've made a million isk out of nowhere. It's how I get my money Dust 514: Unlimited Scrub Works

Evicer THE HECATONCHIRES 760	Posted - 2015.04.15 18:23:00 - [21] - Quote Her Chosen wrote: So, when "passive" ISK was shut down from district ownership. It slowly evolved the game. You saw corps basically die, and traditional protostompers all but disappear... Corporations that were on Nyian San's payroll basically became non-threats in public matches; Nyan Chan, LORD-BRITISH, etc Squads weren't eager to spend a collective 6-10 million ISK just to win a public contract battle. But since the NPC market, I've seen the trend happen again. Non-PC playing players and corps throwing millions of ISK into public contract battles. Where is this ISK coming from? They aren't selling Templar BPOs, ringing for PCs, have no districts to farm, AFK-ing doesn't work... Where did all of these players start getting a bankroll to afford 1M ISK matches? I've watched players lose 2-3 proto tanks in a pub, or lose 5-15 proto suits, crash ADS, after ADS, etc... it doesn't add up. You can argue all you want, but DUST has always been a a pay-to-win game. But this "economy" is broken. Taking away passive PC ISK was nota good idea, however the new payout system is a good replacement. So, I'm asking each of you (non-PC players); where is your ISK coming from? Imagine you made say for example 30k profit a match and you played over a 1000 matches.... Your grip over your career accumulates. Fortune favors the Bold,but Success favors the Resolute Unbent,Unburdened, UNSTOPPABLE Amarr loyalist
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1251	Posted - 2015.04.15 18:55:00 - [22] - Quote PADDEHATPIGEN wrote: ALL beta players Got to keep ALL the ISK. They earned playing beta, they also got ALL items reimbursed at full ISK price. The day Dust 514 launched most of the beta players had 200-500 Mill. ISK. Some had a lot more. Later on some players had the PC farm and they made billions of ISK. So there are players that don't give a f... About how many ISK. They loose, they have more then enough to die 10 times in every battle they for the next 5 years in there proto/officer/state fits. This is why. GNOPE! I had full BPO of quite a lot of different gear back then. Full reset rolled around. I had nearly maxed everything, because SP was at much higher "Testing" levels. Now I just have my core equipment maxed, and a few other things about halfway. We had to toss everything coming out of beta, including our old names. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
GeorgeN76 Senshi Slayers 28	Posted - 2015.04.16 02:58:00 - [23] - Quote Joseph Ridgeson wrote: Atlas Donovan wrote: I think a lot of people play eve and use isk transfer guys to make their isk ISk is endless in eve same as dust and you can make 100 million ISK a day mining and then use isk transfer guys to turn it into dust isk magically Idk how that works wish I had millions and millions of isk :-/ The rates dictate everything though. 100 million gets you 8 with this guy. Plexes are about 800,000 million at the moment so you could just spend 30 dollars to 133 million DUST isk, assuming you can trust the person with "30 dollars worth of stuff." A lot of people get their money by just playing the game. Jeez, when I first started I figured out real quick X / Y = Z X = Average ISK in a match Y = Average numbers of deaths Z = Cost of Suit Plug in a conservative number for X, a liberal number for Y, and you get a cost of your suits. Make your suit cost less than Z and you have infinite ISK basically. If you burned through Ambushes and pulled in 120k ISK in an 8 minute game, you are bringing in 900K an hour. Do better than that, say 150, and you are at 1,125,000 ISK an hour. Normalize that to having to wait for games, call it 6 an hour, you are still pulling in over 700k+ an hour. It all adds up. Of course, if you never ever die, you can use the most expensive stuff in the game and still make out money. Link broken, who would give me 100 mill Dust isk for 1 plex? Scouts and Swarms
Isa Lucifer Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 190	Posted - 2015.04.16 03:08:00 - [24] - Quote I use ADV Dropsuit, Weapons, Grenades and anything else tied to the role of the fit. Example: ADV Precision enhancers on Spotter logi. Armor and shield buffs are militia/basic. When I do FW, I do 1 or 2 proto Assaults. Amarr Victor
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 11484	Posted - 2015.04.16 03:16:00 - [25] - Quote Her Chosen wrote: So, I'm asking each of you (non-PC players); where is your ISK coming from? This is what I do. 1. Rename all my fittings according to total ISK cost of the fitting and use that to guage how much I'm spending to cover every loss. 2. Set a minimum-balance budget of about 10 million ISK. If I fall below that mark, I spam ambush with nothing but cheap gear such as the Faction suits like the Federation 'Serpent' Scout or the Republic 'Tiger' Scout. 3. If ambush turns into a tough match I use slightly better, but still cheap, gear. 4. I learn to avoid certain fights given the fact that I'm a scout. Head-on engagements are not my style. This has allowed me to save mitigate losses. 5. If all else fails, there is always the Starter Fittings which you will always have no matter what. 6. Once I build up my wallet to a minimum balance, I go back to proto or advanced depending on how tough the fight becomes. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
DUST Fiend 16403	Posted - 2015.04.16 03:34:00 - [26] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Her Chosen wrote: So, I'm asking each of you (non-PC players); where is your ISK coming from? This is what I do. 1. Rename all my fittings according to total ISK cost of the fitting and use that to guage how much I'm spending to cover every loss. 2. Set a minimum-balance budget of about 10 million ISK. If I fall below that mark, I spam ambush with nothing but cheap gear such as the Faction suits like the Federation 'Serpent' Scout or the Republic 'Tiger' Scout. 3. If ambush turns into a tough match I use slightly better, but still cheap, gear. 4. I learn to avoid certain fights given the fact that I'm a scout. Head-on engagements are not my style. This has allowed me to save mitigate losses. 5. If all else fails, there is always the Starter Fittings which you will always have no matter what. 6. Once I build up my wallet to a minimum balance, I go back to proto or advanced depending on how tough the fight becomes. How I do it Deploy Kill **** Get killed Don't care Profit. Contests, Sales, Writing etc Fly Safe


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