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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1459
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Posted - 2015.04.13 18:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, I've come to some conclusions about Commandos recently, and I think there are some ways we can I prove them to be comparably effective when put beside other roles. I'll outline why I think my conclusions are sound and then I'll provide several potential solutions that could improve the quality of life for Commandos, bringing them into the game in a more productive fashion.
Too Long; Didn't Read
Commandos suffer from too many deficiencies and need either additional fitting slots and resources, or improved base speed, stamina and HP.
Current Issues:
There are several big issues with Commandos at the moment the I feel are negatively impacting upon their ability to fully contribute in battles:
1) Speed and mobility
Commandos are slow, almost as slow as Sentinels, and as a result have limited ability to navigate the battlefield, which in turn makes them sluggish to respond to changing circumstances. Currently they have a speed that roughly equates to having 5% more speed than a Sentinel and 20% less speed than an Assault. Sentinels have roughly 24% less speed than an Assault.
These speed deficiencies are supposed to be accounted for in other ways (Sentinels have the highest HP, resistance bonuses and powerful weaponry; Commandos have damage bonuses and the advantage of carrying two Light weapons.) One of the issues, however, is the current state of the game making speed a very important factor and one of the biggest reasons for this is the strafing capability of a suit. We've all seen the wiggle strafing that happens, where a suit will move in a circle, or other erratic movement, very rapidly to throw off another player's aim.
Why is strafing important? Because it reduces your incoming damage and allows you time to try and apply yours to the enemy, the stumbling block for Commandos is twofold: firstly, they are slower, meaning that their strafing capacity is far reduced (20%, compared to the Assault suit) which in turn means that they are hit far more often than a similarly equipped Assault suit; secondly, they have a larger hitbox, being a heavy frame suit, which further compounds their slower strafing ability and results in the majority of damage being applied even when attempting to evade fire.
An additional factor in mobility is stamina: Commandos have the second lowest stamina/stamina regeneration of all roles, understandable since they are the second heavy frame. This does, however, mean that they are far less capable of reacting and responding as circumstances change on the battlefield. One of the greater, if low key, benefits of the Minmatar Assault, Minmatar Scout and even the Amarr Scout is the high stamina regeneration meaning that they can almost always move how they need to. Low stamina and regeneration is a significant deficit compared to an Assault suit.
A final factor in speed and mobility is simple evasion: a slow suit has a far harder time getting out of the line of fire, which is understandable. This means that a Commando has far less opportunity to break between points of cover, because they are exposed for longer and are easier to hit.
2) Fitting
Commandos have a low amount of modules slots: 2 at standard, 3 at advanced and four at prototype.
Sentinels have slightly more: 3, 4 and 5, respectively.
Assaults have a high amount of slots: 4, 6 and 8, respectively.
Scouts have a medium amount: 4, 5 and 6.
Logistics have a high amount, though their slots are not fully progressive and need touching up, they're roughly 3, 5/6 and 8.
Commandos, then, have the overall lowest slot amounts across all infantry roles. As far as fitting space is concerned, Commandos are actually reasonably well off, since they have similar fitting to the other heavy frame and have fewer modules to fill. That said, a Commando has far less flexibility in how they outfit their suit - as far as modules are concerned - which ties in with the above point about speed and mobility. However, at the higher tiers the Commando fitting resources actually suffer, compared to that of the Assault - they have less slots, certainly, but have a relatively low increase of resources.
With fewer slots and significant downsides (low speed, large hitbox) a Commando has to either magnify their strengths (high damage) or shore up their weaknesses. Having only four slots at prototype, a Commando is incapable of emulating an Assault's speed, while many Assaults are plenty capable of emulating the additional damage that the Commandos receive as a role bonus (Gallente and Amarr Assaults notably, that can fit three damage mods without sacrificing their primary tank and affords them the same damage increase as a Gal/AmCom bonus with a single damage mod.)
Furthermore, an Assault with sufficient slots can reasonably equip enough tanking modules to more than account for the differences in base EHP. For example, a Caldari Commando has roughly 51% more HP base (+220) but this is at the cost of two high slots/two low slots at prototype: a single armour plate and two shield extenders amply make up the difference, and still leave the Assault with an additional low slot over the Commando overall. With Gallente and Amarr, especially, they can account for the difference in HP very effectively while retaining overall better flexibility with their remaining slots and substantial advantages in speed, mobility and a smaller hitbox, even after fitting more modules.
Essentially, the low slot count of the Commandos is not sufficiently accounted for in the base stats of the suit, be that HP, speed or other (such as scanning.)
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Essentially, the Commando pays very heavily for its advantages, and as a result is significantly less effective in direct combat situations than an Assault suit, considering that the flexibility of the Assault allows it to emulate and, in some cases, outperform in the same or similar role as a Commando.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1459
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Posted - 2015.04.13 18:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
So what can be done, if you accept the above notion?
Proposals
I feel there are several solutions to making the Commando a more readily accessible suit:
1) Increased Fitting
Since a lot of the Commando's flaws stem from a lack of flexibility (ie, being unable to push their advantage or reduce their weakness) a simple solution would be to introduce additional slots and the relevant, requisite fitting resources needed to fully utilise them.
A conservative suggestion would be to add a single additional slot to each suit, but I feel that bringing Commandos up to having equal slots to a Scout would be far more appropriate. This would still leave them with less available slots than an Assault, but would afford them some flexibility in how to fit, giving them the ability to better maximise their advantages (higher damage, better base HP) or more room to plug weakness.
2) Increase Base Stats
Some of the weaknesses of the Commando are based in their insufficiently placed stats. Commandos can be matched and/or beaten in every way by an Assault suit, often multiple or all stats at once too. To counter this, it could introduced that the Commando suits receive certain buffs to key stats.
My suggestions for the stats to increase would be:
Movement Speed:
From the previous situation of 20% less speed than an Assault, buff the Commando to 12.5% less speed. This would give it a substantial advantage in speed over the Sentinel (which has a greater resilience) and make the greater flexibility of the Assault less enormous.
Speeds After Buff: (Move/Sprint)
G/C: 4.38/6.13
Am: 4.2/5.88
Min: 4.64/5.97
Stamina and Regeneration:
Low stamina and regeneration negatively impact the ability to move around on an already slow platform, even after the proposed movement speed changes. Simply, increase Commando stamina stats up to the same as the Logistics role: this is because Logistics are somewhat better, stamina-wise, but are still behind the Assaults and this would afford them slightly more mobility to double down on the movement speed increases.
Pre and Post Buff Numbers: (Stamina/Regen)
G/C: 125/15 -> 150/15
A: 200/20 -> 225/25
M: 150/40 -> 175/4
Shields and Armour:
Commandos have roughly 50% more HP over their Assault counterparts. Considering the ability to fit far more modules essentially negates the base HP advantages of the Commando, I feel that the following changes should be made to the suits to compensate. The process below directly accounts for the HP differences between Sentinel/Assault (roughly 112.9% increase from Assault to Sentinel, on average) and places the Commando at a firm +60% from Assault to Commando.
Gallente/Caldari:
Assault HP: 155/275; +60% = 690 total. Proportionally distributed as 37% off tank (255) and 63% primary tank (435) respective of race.
690 is a direct +60.5% increase from the Assault base of 430 (60.5% to maintain a good, round number) and is a total increase of +6.2% (40) HP from the previous iteration of Gallente/Caldari Commando HP.
Amarr:
Assault HP: 145/325; +60% = 740 total. Proportional distribution is 29% off tank for 215 shields/525 armour.
740 is a direct +61% increase from the Assault base of 460 (61% maintains round figures) and is a +8.8% (60) HP from the previous iteration of Amarr Commando HP.
Minmatar:
Assault HP: 210/190; +60% = 640 total. Proportional distribution is 46% off tank for 345 shields/295 armour.
640 is a direct +60% increase from the Assault base of 400 and is a +3.2% (20) HP from the previous iteration of Minmatar Commando HP.
Note, even though the Amarr Commando technically gets a larger bonus from these changes, but since the changes are directly proportional to the Assault suit base, then they are getting only a small, literal buff while maintaining the same proportional increases.
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Conclusion
Well, thanks for reading all of that and I hope you'll understand where I'm coming from with these proposals. I would, of course, like comments and criticisms, although I would much prefer that they came with recommended changes instead of simple dismissals.
Cheers.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1463
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Posted - 2015.04.13 18:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:A very well thought out and presented analysis and set of suggestions. Well done!
Aww, thanks Pokey! 
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1464
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Posted - 2015.04.13 19:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:So effectively you're trying to normalize most of the stats of the Commando to be between Assaults and Sentinels. I might actually take your proposal and put it into an easier to read spreadsheet if you dont mind. Rattati loves spreadsheets.
Be my guest! I would've spreadsheet'd it myself, but I'm a bit of a derp with them at the moment...
MINA Longstrike wrote:Also, min needs to lose that swarm 'bonus', god I hate that thing.
Definitely. Though each race does need a light AV weapon, and Swarms should still be receiving a bonus on Cal suits. The only real issue is that it's only Min that have a bonus for AV.
MINA Longstrike wrote:In summary - Increasing hp won't fix the issues with shield recharge and recovery, I'd favor more slots in addition to much needed shield tweaks. Commando's didn't deserve the ewar nerf they got handed and it should be undone. Minmando 'swarm bonus' is still pushing it into undeserved popularity as an 'av suit' where people get into high places and cannot be dislodged, part of problem with swarm launcher, part of problem with suit.
I do agree, to an extent. While flat increasing HP may be dangerous, the overall suggested increase is fairly limited and is still plenty less than a Sentinel, while the Assault retains a far greater diversity of fit.
I do agree about the recharge/recovery issues, though increased base HP somewhat helps by making HP modules less needed.
Still, I do feel that a slot increase would serve Commandos very well, hence the first potential solution 
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1464
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Posted - 2015.04.13 19:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kierkegaard Soren wrote: I'd also like to bring up the issue of insufficient EWAR capability; being blind to medium frames, too slow to avoid them and big enough themselves to be seen by every other passive scan in the game is a major issue for a suit that can only win engagements by being the first to dictate the range of the fight.
EWar is a big issue, though I feel it needs an overhaul on a bigger level than just Commandos - range needs looked at, precision for several roles and so on.
Commandos do need better EWar, I agree.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1467
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Posted - 2015.04.13 19:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Just as a clarification, my proposals above are exclusive, I was not suggesting implementing both.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1482
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Posted - 2015.04.16 16:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:I figure we can start using this is as a master proposal sheet to compare various proposals that pop up in a fairly easy to understand fashion. There are a few other ideas in this thread so I'll toss those in there when I get a chance (with due credit) and throw in my ideas as well.
Sounds like a plan. I'm going to link your spreadsheet up in the OP too, so that's it's easily visible.
Pokey Dravon wrote:EDIT: Also Kallas, I'm totally gonna rip off your stamina and speed numbers, I really like them.
Cross Atu wrote:I hope to be able to see the next iterative step in Commando balance on the field within a couple cycles.
Woop, thanks Cross!
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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