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Sennina Sovereign
ROGUE RELICS
8
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Posted - 2015.04.13 04:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
I know that we have the forge gun and the HMG as the only heavy weapons available to us as of right now, but if we do get the heavy weapons for the Gallente and Amarr, I would like for them to get bonuses for their weapons instead of resistance buffs.
EXAMPLE
Minmatar Sentinal
Racial Weapon: HMG
Bonus(es): 5% reduction to heat build-up per level, or 5% reload speed per level, or 10% reduction to cool down time per level.
Caldari Sentinal
Racial Weapon: Forge Gun
Bonus: 5% reduction to charge up time for forge gun shot per level.
These are some examples on how it could work. I was thinking a damage bonus, but that would be too much and people would complain and ***** about the bonus. These bonuses could be the difference between life and death, and they wouldn't be as OP as some other bonuses out there. What do you guys think about this idea? What bonus would you want for your Sentinal suit? |
The Dark Cloud
Negative-Feedback.
4362
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Posted - 2015.04.13 05:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yeah go give the cal sentinel a 25% reduction of the charge time on forgeguns. Lets see how happy vehicle users will be if a proto cal sentinel with 4 damage mods fires a assault forgegun shot every 1.5 secs.
Forgegun operation: -25% charge time
cal. sentinel operation: -25% charge time
total: -50% charge time
Assault forgegun charge time: 3 secs
with max skills: 3 secs/0,5= 1.5 secs charge time.
If you go trough with that then the forgegun will become a weapon of mass destruction.
I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
1967
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Posted - 2015.04.13 05:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Dark Cloud wrote:Yeah go give the cal sentinel a 25% reduction of the charge time on forgeguns. Lets see how happy vehicle users will be if a proto cal sentinel with 4 damage mods fires a assault forgegun shot every 1.5 secs.
Forgegun operation: -25% charge time
cal. sentinel operation: -25% charge time
total: -50% charge time
Assault forgegun charge time: 3 secs
with max skills: 3 secs/0,5= 1.5 secs charge time.
If you go trough with that then the forgegun will become a weapon of mass destruction.
You say this like is a bad thing.
*polishes forge gun*
*waits for rdv to drop red tank*
I literally can not understand how people can survive being so inept.
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Forced Death
Corrosive Synergy
Rise Of Legion.
465
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Posted - 2015.04.13 05:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Soldner VonKuechle wrote:The Dark Cloud wrote:Yeah go give the cal sentinel a 25% reduction of the charge time on forgeguns. Lets see how happy vehicle users will be if a proto cal sentinel with 4 damage mods fires a assault forgegun shot every 1.5 secs.
Forgegun operation: -25% charge time
cal. sentinel operation: -25% charge time
total: -50% charge time
Assault forgegun charge time: 3 secs
with max skills: 3 secs/0,5= 1.5 secs charge time.
If you go trough with that then the forgegun will become a weapon of mass destruction. You say this like is a bad thing. *polishes forge gun* *waits for rdv to drop red tank*
I'll just use it as a bolt pistol with a slightly longer charge 
Death by laser is imminent
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
768
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Posted - 2015.04.13 07:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yes, but you won't have the AA of the bolt pistol!
Regardless, I like my resistances personally. I don't see the problem. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
5789
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Posted - 2015.04.13 07:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Again, if people want to design a different Heavy Weapon suit that focuses on Heavy weapons....fine
Dont cannibalize a suit with resistances simply because you personally don't like them.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast & Blog
www.biomassed.net
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Vicious Minotaur
2299
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Posted - 2015.04.13 09:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
*ponders making post about resistances and details why they are lame bonuses and should indeed be replaced*
*realizes that few people actually give a rats arse about maths and logics*
*leaves*
I am a minotaur.
a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça¦ça+üa+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+¦a+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa+üa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ëa¦ë
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
8036
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Posted - 2015.04.13 10:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
4 damage mods on a calsent is a waste.
3 is pushing stupid because diminishing returns on mods means the third one is worth a 2.5-3% add and the fourth is like 1.5-2%.
You can get more effective damage application by hitting it with a rock.
AV
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The Dark Cloud
Negative-Feedback.
4367
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Posted - 2015.04.13 14:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:4 damage mods on a calsent is a waste.
3 is pushing stupid because diminishing returns on mods means the third one is worth a 2.5-3% add and the fourth is like 1.5-2%.
You can get more effective damage application by hitting it with a rock.
Thats what you say but if a dropship survives with 1HP armor you will think different about it.
I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
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Slave of MORTE
365
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Posted - 2015.04.13 15:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
There are only 2 heavy weapons nuff said
I'm her slave because amarrians are the best in the sheets #stamina
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
8048
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Posted - 2015.04.13 15:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
The Dark Cloud wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:4 damage mods on a calsent is a waste.
3 is pushing stupid because diminishing returns on mods means the third one is worth a 2.5-3% add and the fourth is like 1.5-2%.
You can get more effective damage application by hitting it with a rock. Thats what you say but if a dropship survives with 1HP armor you will think different about it.
IAFG: Zero damage mods
# of ADS who have survived a third successive shot?
Zero.
I have never had an instance where damage mods have provided a significant advantage in the game for a forge gun.
Only the breach has alpha high enough to make 12% damage offered by three mods mean anything but a math gag.
AV
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
8048
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Posted - 2015.04.13 15:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
And it's not the resistance to profiles that would make the most difference.
Removing the splash resistance for a weapon bonus would be the route I'd go.
AV
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CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK
Rise Of Legion.
3369
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Posted - 2015.04.13 19:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Hell yes I will take a Forge gun bonus!
Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa?
SCV Ready!
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CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK
Rise Of Legion.
3369
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Posted - 2015.04.13 19:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:The Dark Cloud wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:4 damage mods on a calsent is a waste.
3 is pushing stupid because diminishing returns on mods means the third one is worth a 2.5-3% add and the fourth is like 1.5-2%.
You can get more effective damage application by hitting it with a rock. Thats what you say but if a dropship survives with 1HP armor you will think different about it. IAFG: Zero damage mods # of ADS who have survived a third successive shot? Zero. I have never had an instance where damage mods have provided a significant advantage in the game for a forge gun. Only the breach has alpha high enough to make 12% damage offered by three mods mean anything but a math gag.
Its refreshing to see someone comment who actually knows and understands the weapon to which his comment refers.
Damage mods on forge guns are questionable at best I would say.
I remember reading some stats not too long ago basically showing that damage mods 95% of the time don't actually change the amount of shots one would have to fire to kill "X" vehicle, hence unless you just want raw damage, are working with one or more forge friends or plan to take on every installation in the map.... you are better off fitting other modules.
Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa?
SCV Ready!
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CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK
Rise Of Legion.
3369
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Posted - 2015.04.13 19:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
The Dark Cloud wrote:Yeah go give the cal sentinel a 25% reduction of the charge time on forgeguns. Lets see how happy vehicle users will be if a proto cal sentinel with 4 damage mods fires a assault forgegun shot every 1.5 secs.
Forgegun operation: -25% charge time
cal. sentinel operation: -25% charge time
total: -50% charge time
Assault forgegun charge time: 3 secs
with max skills: 3 secs/0,5= 1.5 secs charge time.
If you go trough with that then the forgegun will become a weapon of mass destruction.
It already is Dark, just ask Kerosiini Tero (spelling?) 
Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why hide a solution under frothy pile of derpa?
SCV Ready!
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Kierkegaard Soren
Corrosive Synergy
Rise Of Legion.
750
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Posted - 2015.04.13 19:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'd disagree but then some of the maddies I've fought today could do with that kind of firepower being levelled at them. Actuslly make them withdraw before the hardeners run down :P
Dedicated Commando.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
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wiseguy12
Y.A.M.A.H
111
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Posted - 2015.04.13 19:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
The Dark Cloud wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:4 damage mods on a calsent is a waste.
3 is pushing stupid because diminishing returns on mods means the third one is worth a 2.5-3% add and the fourth is like 1.5-2%.
You can get more effective damage application by hitting it with a rock. Thats what you say but if a dropship survives with 1HP armor you will think different about it.
1, huh, I cant tell how often I survive with a fraction of a hit point. Seriously though, Heavies are all about absorbing damage not dealing it out.
Pro Caldari assault and Amarr sentinel.
Proto SMG, sniper, HMG, Scrambler and Assault Rifle
Onuoto Uakan
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The Dark Cloud
Negative-Feedback.
4374
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Posted - 2015.04.13 19:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
wiseguy12 wrote:The Dark Cloud wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:4 damage mods on a calsent is a waste.
3 is pushing stupid because diminishing returns on mods means the third one is worth a 2.5-3% add and the fourth is like 1.5-2%.
You can get more effective damage application by hitting it with a rock. Thats what you say but if a dropship survives with 1HP armor you will think different about it. 1, huh, I cant tell how often I survive with a fraction of a hit point. Seriously though, Heavies are all about absorbing damage not dealing it out.
No the cal sentinel is the best used with a forgegun cause he can stack damage mods like no other heavy. Every bit of damage helps vs vehicles. Thats why you aswell see swarms in combination with damage mods aswell cause without them it just feels wrong and too weak.
I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
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Cypher Nil
Fireteam Tempest
224
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Posted - 2015.04.13 19:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
But.... the whole point of a heavy suit is to be more resistant?? I think your thinking of assault suits their my friend.
n++pâçGòÉS+Ç +24 Million SP Merc n++pâçGòÉS+Ç
Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ Caldari Loyalist Gû¼Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉGòÉn¦ñ
Of course we won, now when do I get paid?
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
8058
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Posted - 2015.04.13 21:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
The Dark Cloud wrote:Yeah go give the cal sentinel a 25% reduction of the charge time on forgeguns. Lets see how happy vehicle users will be if a proto cal sentinel with 4 damage mods fires a assault forgegun shot every 1.5 secs.
Forgegun operation: -25% charge time
cal. sentinel operation: -25% charge time
total: -50% charge time
Assault forgegun charge time: 3 secs
with max skills: 3 secs/0,5= 1.5 secs charge time.
If you go trough with that then the forgegun will become a weapon of mass destruction.
that's not how it works. The bonuses aren't additive.
the correct answer is 1.6875 second charge time. 3 * .75 *.75 is the equation. you multiply them together.
AV
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
18211
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Posted - 2015.04.13 21:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:The Dark Cloud wrote:Yeah go give the cal sentinel a 25% reduction of the charge time on forgeguns. Lets see how happy vehicle users will be if a proto cal sentinel with 4 damage mods fires a assault forgegun shot every 1.5 secs.
Forgegun operation: -25% charge time
cal. sentinel operation: -25% charge time
total: -50% charge time
Assault forgegun charge time: 3 secs
with max skills: 3 secs/0,5= 1.5 secs charge time.
If you go trough with that then the forgegun will become a weapon of mass destruction. that's not how it works. The bonuses aren't additive. the correct answer is 1.6875 second charge time. 3 * .75 *.75 is the equation. you multiply them together.
I think however to the player that 0.1875 seconds will barely be noticeable... but MATH!
GÇ£That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.GÇ¥
-The Nameless City
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Stormblade Green
KnightKiller's inc.
71
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Posted - 2015.04.13 21:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:And it's not the resistance to profiles that would make the most difference.
Removing the splash resistance for a weapon bonus would be the route I'd go.
Then give then a bonus to plates and extenders.....
One might say... I'm very skilled... yet I'm his apprentice... So what does that say about my mentor?
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VALCORE72
Vengeance Unbound
RUST415
278
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Posted - 2015.04.13 21:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
min heavy needs a little help. stacked amar sents vs mine is just bad even 1v1. scrambler resist is sh.t when there doing 120 damage a shot .
asian haters united lol .
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
8059
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Posted - 2015.04.13 22:00:00 -
[24] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:The Dark Cloud wrote:Yeah go give the cal sentinel a 25% reduction of the charge time on forgeguns. Lets see how happy vehicle users will be if a proto cal sentinel with 4 damage mods fires a assault forgegun shot every 1.5 secs.
Forgegun operation: -25% charge time
cal. sentinel operation: -25% charge time
total: -50% charge time
Assault forgegun charge time: 3 secs
with max skills: 3 secs/0,5= 1.5 secs charge time.
If you go trough with that then the forgegun will become a weapon of mass destruction. that's not how it works. The bonuses aren't additive. the correct answer is 1.6875 second charge time. 3 * .75 *.75 is the equation. you multiply them together. I think however to the player that 0.1875 seconds will barely be noticeable... but MATH!
when you start running kill time simulations for madrugar passives tenths of a second MATTER.
AV
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
770
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Posted - 2015.04.14 06:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:The Dark Cloud wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:4 damage mods on a calsent is a waste.
3 is pushing stupid because diminishing returns on mods means the third one is worth a 2.5-3% add and the fourth is like 1.5-2%.
You can get more effective damage application by hitting it with a rock. Thats what you say but if a dropship survives with 1HP armor you will think different about it. IAFG: Zero damage mods # of ADS who have survived a third successive shot? Zero. I have never had an instance where damage mods have provided a significant advantage in the game for a forge gun. Only the breach has alpha high enough to make 12% damage offered by three mods mean anything but a math gag. Its refreshing to see someone comment who actually knows and understands the weapon to which his comment refers. Damage mods on forge guns are questionable at best I would say. I remember reading some stats not too long ago basically showing that damage mods 95% of the time don't actually change the amount of shots one would have to fire to kill "X" vehicle, hence unless you just want raw damage, are working with one or more forge friends or plan to take on every installation in the map.... you are better off fitting other modules.
I'm pretty sure for most vehicles and most forgeguns in most combat situations, the presence of a Damage mod does not change TTK (the last shot needed usually goes over 0 by a fair bit.)
But those are in lab conditions, on the battlefield there are a few situations where that damage mod on the forge actually can make a difference.
Example A: Pilot is running an expensive ship and cares a lot about KD. Even though the same number of forge gun shots are needed to kill the DS< 2 successive harder hits puts his armor far closer to 0 than normal 2 shots. As such he tries to bug out sooner getting him away from the action sooner (or saving the Forgegunner's life if it is an ADS and is trying to kill the Forger)
Example B: Infantry forging. Some heavies can survive a forge hit (with very little armor.) A damage mod changes that.
Example C: A vehicle of any type has just gotten out of a battle with another vehicle or another AV infantry. They are already damaged. Hardeners/Shield Pulses may be running. The extra damage from a damage mod on a forge may be the difference between needing 1 or 2 shot as opposed to 2 or 3 shots to kill (and them getting away.)
Example D: Vehicle is hardened and regenning. It is trying to stand and deliver some Damage to the battlefield before bugging out. So it may take 4-5-6 whatever a lot of shots to drop. Over the course of a long enough fight where the forger has the opportunity to fire and the vehicle as the dodging ability/HP to survive an extended fight -- a damage mod or two may be the difference between vehicle loss or not.
I agree that damage mods are iffy at best -- but sometimes they can matter. Even though I say the above, I personally have a shield recharger on my forge heavy.
Also -- I'd really like someone to explain to me why resistances are a bad idea. |
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