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reydient
ROGUE RELICS
99
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Posted - 2015.04.01 15:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
First: I am a PA: most people do not no what that is but its a physician assistant , and the pay salary affords me disposable income , actually a lot of disposable income that I can chose to allocate where I would like. I also have a wife and kids and what I do not have is time no matter how much I love dust , I could never play enough. Casual play once or twice a week for 2 or 3 hrs would mean that I will always be behind the curve. Buying boosters is what keeps some people in the game, especially the working population, such as myself. Buying boosters are situational in regards to P2W but , it is erroneous for me to say buying boosters does not afford people a win, but honestly its rarely the case. To be honest I have 45 million lifetime and my KDR is barely .84 , I have paid extensively and still I do not win. I do pay to " HAVE A CHANCE " that's what's really afforded to me.
Lets pretend that this game was/is pay to win. Dust is a game about war. Wars are not waged only between soldiers but there is politics and financial status. Yes he who has the biggest army and better equipment has a better chance of winning and a big army and better equipment requires money , isk , aurum , USD and Euros. In real life you do not see many examples of sticks and stones beating the AR and Glock, BUT IT DOES HAPPEN. In experienced hands a stick and a stone could beat a AR. How much does the AR cost in comparison to the rock? If you had to engage somebody and had to chose between a rock and and a AR what would you chose? Would cost be an issue? Would you pay more to have the AR? How about attachment's? Politically , I have seen PC matches won by a "lesser team " because they were sabotaged i.e AWOKERS!! Or Ive seen great teams get destroyed because a mutual arrangement resulted in them losing half their teams in battle. CCP is allowing me and my vast number of resources to 1.) stay caught up and 2.) Provide me a increased probability at winning and engagement. If you play this game as the MMO you'd know that some matches can be won before it even starts .
No aspect of this game should be untouchable from my the vast depths of my wallet , just saying. The word is that dust is profitable and I definitely paid somebodies salary and everyone that's playing free and unwilling to drop a dime , your welcome , because this game continues to be free to pay |
reydient
ROGUE RELICS
99
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 15:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:Like I said, it is edge cases where a Pay to Win argument can be brought up easily enough. If it is between 50 and 40 million SP for the Paid Player and Free Player, it doesn't matter too much. The difference is that Free Player has 6 or so Protosuits while Paid Player has 8 or so. But when it is the early days and it is 4 million to 10.5 million for players that started playing the same day, it is a chasm of a difference. Imagine if you could buy Officer gear for Aurum and you could also find it at the same drop rates that they currently have. Would you consider Aurum Officer gear only giving you a fast track or would you see it as buying power? Honest question, meant with respect.
Being able to trade players for Aurum items doesn't really change the dynamic that much, at least as far as I can tell. Yes, it means that people will potentially not have to spend money to get all the benefits of having spent money but with that reasoning you would also come to the conclusion that EVE is a totally free game to play providing you can make like 700 million a month for PLEX. 'Someone' still had to buy it; being able to get it from that 'someone' doesn't change the fact that every Boosters oozes with power. Expand it out. If ISK becomes the predominate factor in the game, such as it is in EVE, than the literal millionaire can buy Boosters/Aurum items in order to get infinite ISK. In that limited sense of "Infinite ISK vs. Finite ISK", you are Paying to Win but that is ad absurdum and likely not on the table.
Is DUST an honest to god Pay to Win game? Ehh, probably not. However, you can buy a hell of a lot of power to the point that it is no way an 'ethical' Free to Play game. And we should never just assume that it isn't Pay to Win because, in the short term, it really is.
Well Said ! |
reydient
ROGUE RELICS
99
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 17:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Pagl1u M wrote:reydient wrote:First: I am a PA: most people do not no what that is but its a physician assistant , and the pay salary affords me disposable income , actually a lot of disposable income that I can chose to allocate where I would like. I also have a wife and kids and what I do not have is time no matter how much I love dust , I could never play enough. Casual play once or twice a week for 2 or 3 hrs would mean that I will always be behind the curve. Buying boosters is what keeps some people in the game, especially the working population, such as myself. Buying boosters are situational in regards to P2W but , it is erroneous for me to say buying boosters does not afford people a win, but honestly its rarely the case. To be honest I have 45 million lifetime and my KDR is barely .84 , I have paid extensively and still I do not win. I do pay to " HAVE A CHANCE " that's what's really afforded to me.
Lets pretend that this game was/is pay to win. Dust is a game about war. Wars are not waged only between soldiers but there is politics and financial status. Yes he who has the biggest army and better equipment has a better chance of winning and a big army and better equipment requires money , isk , aurum , USD and Euros. In real life you do not see many examples of sticks and stones beating the AR and Glock, BUT IT DOES HAPPEN. In experienced hands a stick and a stone could beat a AR. How much does the AR cost in comparison to the rock? If you had to engage somebody and had to chose between a rock and and a AR what would you chose? Would cost be an issue? Would you pay more to have the AR? How about attachment's? Politically , I have seen PC matches won by a "lesser team " because they were sabotaged i.e AWOKERS!! Or Ive seen great teams get destroyed because a mutual arrangement resulted in them losing half their teams in battle. CCP is allowing me and my vast number of resources to 1.) stay caught up and 2.) Provide me a increased probability at winning and engagement. If you play this game as the MMO you'd know that some matches can be won before it even starts .
No aspect of this game should be untouchable from my the vast depths of my wallet , just saying. The word is that dust is profitable and I definitely paid somebodies salary and everyone that's playing free and unwilling to drop a dime , your welcome , because this game continues to be free to pay Example1: Player A and Player B start playing a new game. 2 hours of gaming later A has a gun that deals 10 dmg. B has spent moneys and so he has a gun that deal 7 dmg. 3 hours later A obtains the gun that deals 10 dmg. They both have the same gun Now. This is not pay2win. Example2: Player A has a gun that deals 7 dmg. Player B spends moneys and have a gun that deals 10 dmg. No Matter how muCh A Will play, he'll neve have the gun that deal 10 dmg un Less he spends real moneys. This is pay2win. Is Dust Example 1 or 2? Unfortunately, 2 on a short term. It is not pay to win on the long term, but that's a problem: you'll probably lose everyone who wanted instant satisfaction meanwhile. See, a "fair" fight is where initially you have the same chance of winning as your opponent: this is not Dust's case. Despite matchmaking, there are way too many things you can do to have an advantage over your opponent and this also include paying real money to gain a certain kind of advantage: after all, there is no cosmetic item in Dust514 so, everything you buy grants you some advantage. Now, if the game should "restart" tomorrow, everyone with 0 SP etc. who will win most of the fights for at lest 4 months? Paying users or non paying users? It might not be pay to win among vets, but it actually is among new players... A "more tolerable" pay to win if you want.
I can definitely agree with this . I think that until your first 12 million skill points ( especially if you skill all over the place ) the ideology of pay to win is more pronounced. |
reydient
ROGUE RELICS
99
|
Posted - 2015.04.01 17:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Pagl1u M wrote:reydient wrote:First: I am a PA: most people do not no what that is but its a physician assistant , and the pay salary affords me disposable income , actually a lot of disposable income that I can chose to allocate where I would like. I also have a wife and kids and what I do not have is time no matter how much I love dust , I could never play enough. Casual play once or twice a week for 2 or 3 hrs would mean that I will always be behind the curve. Buying boosters is what keeps some people in the game, especially the working population, such as myself. Buying boosters are situational in regards to P2W but , it is erroneous for me to say buying boosters does not afford people a win, but honestly its rarely the case. To be honest I have 45 million lifetime and my KDR is barely .84 , I have paid extensively and still I do not win. I do pay to " HAVE A CHANCE " that's what's really afforded to me.
Lets pretend that this game was/is pay to win. Dust is a game about war. Wars are not waged only between soldiers but there is politics and financial status. Yes he who has the biggest army and better equipment has a better chance of winning and a big army and better equipment requires money , isk , aurum , USD and Euros. In real life you do not see many examples of sticks and stones beating the AR and Glock, BUT IT DOES HAPPEN. In experienced hands a stick and a stone could beat a AR. How much does the AR cost in comparison to the rock? If you had to engage somebody and had to chose between a rock and and a AR what would you chose? Would cost be an issue? Would you pay more to have the AR? How about attachment's? Politically , I have seen PC matches won by a "lesser team " because they were sabotaged i.e AWOKERS!! Or Ive seen great teams get destroyed because a mutual arrangement resulted in them losing half their teams in battle. CCP is allowing me and my vast number of resources to 1.) stay caught up and 2.) Provide me a increased probability at winning and engagement. If you play this game as the MMO you'd know that some matches can be won before it even starts .
No aspect of this game should be untouchable from my the vast depths of my wallet , just saying. The word is that dust is profitable and I definitely paid somebodies salary and everyone that's playing free and unwilling to drop a dime , your welcome , because this game continues to be free to pay Example1: Player A and Player B start playing a new game. 2 hours of gaming later A has a gun that deals 10 dmg. B has spent moneys and so he has a gun that deal 7 dmg. 3 hours later A obtains the gun that deals 10 dmg. They both have the same gun Now. This is not pay2win. Example2: Player A has a gun that deals 7 dmg. Player B spends moneys and have a gun that deals 10 dmg. No Matter how muCh A Will play, he'll neve have the gun that deal 10 dmg un Less he spends real moneys. This is pay2win. Is Dust Example 1 or 2?
This is to assume that each player lands all shots and as well as the assumption that they have equal amounts of health. It also assumes that each weapon affects shields and armor equally. It also assumes there are no other damage bonus from other mods. |
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