DUST Search - I asked for advanced & prototype HAVs...

Sir Dukey wrote:

Takahiro Kashuken wrote:

...but i didn't get them.

I got Basic/Basic+ and Basic++ which allow higher tier modules.

The problem is an old hull could fit proto everything near enough, i'm talking about uprising. Same slot layout, more PG/CPU, better modules and it cost level 1 for a x4 skill.

Now it costs level 5 in a x8 skill for no bonus and i get more PG/CPU but to fit worse modules in a slot layout i used to have a year ago.

How has this progressed anything?

Basic is the same as Basic++ except Basic++ requires 2.5mil SP for more PG/CPU and no skill bonus and it will generally cost 1mil to fit up and use, it doesn't even get an extra slot. Basic doesn't even begin with less slots so at least when you did spend 2.5mil SP into a worthless skill you actually got an extra 2 slots at least at the end.

Why?

It is tiercide but with tiers added, it is a half-breed which doesn't work which ever way you look at it, it doesn't follow tiers like dropsuits do and tiercide is just 1 hull like it used to be.

Is it just me or do players like the Basic/Basic+/Basic++ setup? I use basic++ because i can and i need to use the best fit possible because using anything less against PRO AV is gimping it.

Are we going in circles? We had tiered HAVs at the start, then after a while we had 1 HAV left and now we have tiered HAV again mixed with tiercide which may possibly happen with UHAV/DHAV.

Chrome was the best wasn't it, basic HAV good slot layout cheaper, specialized HAV more expensive good skills worth the upgrade.

Is it just me? I feel that basic/basic+/basic++ has just not added anything and might aswell be deleted and keep the basic++ and make is standard like in uprising.

Disclaimer:

The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514

100% agree. BTW still cant fit all proto mods and turrets on proto gunnlogi.

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Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. 4391	Posted - 2015.03.25 20:43:00 - [1] - Quote ...but i didn't get them. I got Basic/Basic+ and Basic++ which allow higher tier modules. The problem is an old hull could fit proto everything near enough, i'm talking about uprising. Same slot layout, more PG/CPU, better modules and it cost level 1 for a x4 skill. Now it costs level 5 in a x8 skill for no bonus and i get more PG/CPU but to fit worse modules in a slot layout i used to have a year ago. How has this progressed anything? Basic is the same as Basic++ except Basic++ requires 2.5mil SP for more PG/CPU and no skill bonus and it will generally cost 1mil to fit up and use, it doesn't even get an extra slot. Basic doesn't even begin with less slots so at least when you did spend 2.5mil SP into a worthless skill you actually got an extra 2 slots at least at the end. Why? It is tiercide but with tiers added, it is a half-breed which doesn't work which ever way you look at it, it doesn't follow tiers like dropsuits do and tiercide is just 1 hull like it used to be. Is it just me or do players like the Basic/Basic+/Basic++ setup? I use basic++ because i can and i need to use the best fit possible because using anything less against PRO AV is gimping it. Are we going in circles? We had tiered HAVs at the start, then after a while we had 1 HAV left and now we have tiered HAV again mixed with tiercide which may possibly happen with UHAV/DHAV. Chrome was the best wasn't it, basic HAV good slot layout cheaper, specialized HAV more expensive good skills worth the upgrade. Is it just me? I feel that basic/basic+/basic++ has just not added anything and might aswell be deleted and keep the basic++ and make is standard like in uprising. Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 CCP Rattati - "One giant vehicle nerf with more power to AV", you have got to be kidding...''
Thor Odinson42 Negative-Feedback 6340	Posted - 2015.03.26 02:05:00 - [2] - Quote I think it's tough to release much stronger tanks on pubs.
Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1967	Posted - 2015.03.26 02:22:00 - [3] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: ...but i didn't get them. I got Basic/Basic+ and Basic++ which allow higher tier modules. The problem is an old hull could fit proto everything near enough, i'm talking about uprising. Same slot layout, more PG/CPU, better modules and it cost level 1 for a x4 skill. Now it costs level 5 in a x8 skill for no bonus and i get more PG/CPU but to fit worse modules in a slot layout i used to have a year ago. How has this progressed anything? Basic is the same as Basic++ except Basic++ requires 2.5mil SP for more PG/CPU and no skill bonus and it will generally cost 1mil to fit up and use, it doesn't even get an extra slot. Basic doesn't even begin with less slots so at least when you did spend 2.5mil SP into a worthless skill you actually got an extra 2 slots at least at the end. Why? It is tiercide but with tiers added, it is a half-breed which doesn't work which ever way you look at it, it doesn't follow tiers like dropsuits do and tiercide is just 1 hull like it used to be. Is it just me or do players like the Basic/Basic+/Basic++ setup? I use basic++ because i can and i need to use the best fit possible because using anything less against PRO AV is gimping it. Are we going in circles? We had tiered HAVs at the start, then after a while we had 1 HAV left and now we have tiered HAV again mixed with tiercide which may possibly happen with UHAV/DHAV. Chrome was the best wasn't it, basic HAV good slot layout cheaper, specialized HAV more expensive good skills worth the upgrade. Is it just me? I feel that basic/basic+/basic++ has just not added anything and might aswell be deleted and keep the basic++ and make is standard like in uprising. Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 100% agree. BTW still cant fit all proto mods and turrets on proto gunnlogi. "Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2809	Posted - 2015.03.26 02:46:00 - [4] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: 100% agree. BTW still cant fit all proto mods and turrets on proto gunnlogi. Working as intended. Home at Last <3
Banjo Robertson Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 496	Posted - 2015.03.26 02:52:00 - [5] - Quote Just because its different from what you're used to doesnt mean its different from what it should be
Mikel Arias Challengers 506 92	Posted - 2015.03.26 03:16:00 - [6] - Quote I do get the frustration. But, before anything else, I think there should be some data about how each level is doing. For example, the gunnlogi; the basic version is being bought xxxx, deployed xxxxx, it kills xxxxx players, it destroys xxxxx vehicles, it destroys xxxx turrets, it gets destroyed xxxxx many times; the advanced version is being bought xxxxx.... and the same thing with the proto gunnlogi and other tanks, just to see if there is a significant difference between tiers and if thats the case, then great, if it isnt, then something should be done to improve the difference between each tier, like changing the cpu/pg stats, or changing the slot progresion. Anyway, data is needed, and for that, a kind soul who does the tests. Or a dev that shows something similar to what Im talking about.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5587	Posted - 2015.03.26 03:26:00 - [7] - Quote Yep, I love the new system. I wish we had it for dropsuits as well. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Racro 01 Arifistan Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd. 523	Posted - 2015.03.26 05:39:00 - [8] - Quote iam seeing no real issues with how HAV's are being implemented atm. if you want to use a higher damage turret or have higher hp. then I see no reason why you shopuldnt be using the higher tierd hulls for said thing. sure you can put a proto turret on a std hull buyt you sacrife up/down time and EHP as a result. where as if you fit all std you get no drawback. adv hulls to me are the inbetween tanki able to go either for damage or hp. or slightly both. the proto hulls.........I can basically fit all complex the only thing I sacrifice is using a basic fuel injector/ 2 std blasters but that's not much of an issue. my rail gunnlogi not only uses 3 proto railguns but uses next to no fitting mods. my missile logi needs fitting upgrades but that's due to missiles being heavy on fitting. HAV's still arnt as good as they used to be back in chromo.....even though AV was utterly op. but as it stands HAV and AV balalcne is in a good spot. these need looking at LAV / AV dropship /AV *Elite Gallenten Soldier*
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 967	Posted - 2015.03.26 06:00:00 - [9] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Yep, I love the new system. I wish we had it for dropsuits as well. Really? The new system is pretty garbage. There no reason why i should have to use a Complex PG/CPU mods to fit ADV. modules on my ADV tank. I'm not making fitting sacrifices to fit proto modules, I'm making fitting sacrifices for ADV modules. All damage mod tanks have made a return. Concerning dropsuits, the idea that the only time i would get to use proto modules, be it complex reps, complex plates/shield, proto equipment, or a proto rifle/side arm only if i run a proto suit is on i find distastefull to say the least. There would be no compettion between players who can afford to perma run proto and anybody else. The gap is pretty big as is, let alone making all of players who run ADV suits compete with pubstompers without the option of complex reps for example. And if it ended up like the tanks, ugh, fitting a PG/CPU mod on my ADV logi to run ADV equipment? No thank you. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 943	Posted - 2015.03.26 06:13:00 - [10] - Quote Does the op even tank? You don't even proto turrets or complex mods to kill pretty much everything. I used all basic mods and turrets and survive OB's and proto av. This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Sure you can't fit tanks like you used to but they are far stronger now than they were before echo. Tanks need more work obviously but complaining about your tank not being shiny enough is just silly.

Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 967	Posted - 2015.03.26 06:30:00 - [11] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Does the op even tank? You don't even proto turrets or complex mods to kill pretty much everything. I used all basic mods and turrets and survive OB's and proto av. This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Sure you can't fit tanks like you used to but they are far stronger now than they were before echo. Tanks need more work obviously but complaining about your tank not being shiny enough is just silly. Thats because the only difrrence between a Pro and Basic hardener is the duration. Hardener stacking is whats keeping you alive. If hardnerrs had a % difference, say 40% proto, 30% adv, 20% basic, you would be singing a different tune. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5587	Posted - 2015.03.26 06:57:00 - [12] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Yep, I love the new system. I wish we had it for dropsuits as well. Really? The new system is pretty garbage. There no reason why i should have to use a Complex PG/CPU mods to fit ADV. modules on my ADV tank. I'm not making fitting sacrifices to fit proto modules, I'm making fitting sacrifices for ADV modules. All damage mod tanks have made a return. Concerning dropsuits, the idea that the only time i would get to use proto modules, be it complex reps, complex plates/shield, proto equipment, or a proto rifle/side arm only if i run a proto suit is on i find distastefull to say the least. There would be no compettion between players who can afford to perma run proto and anybody else. The gap is pretty big as is, let alone making all of players who run ADV suits compete with pubstompers without the option of complex reps for example. And if it ended up like the tanks, ugh, fitting a PG/CPU mod on my ADV logi to run ADV equipment? No thank you. Well that's your opinion. The whole problem with proto stomping in pubs with dropsuits is because not only do the proto suits equip more modules, but better modules as well. It's a double advantage that leads to a severe difference in power between a Standard suit and Proto suit. Obviously we have a difference in opinion about the philosophy behind suit/hull progression and that's fine. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Gabriel Ceja Ready to Play 101	Posted - 2015.03.26 07:22:00 - [13] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: ...but i didn't get them. I got Basic/Basic+ and Basic++ which allow higher tier modules. The problem is an old hull could fit proto everything near enough, i'm talking about uprising. Same slot layout, more PG/CPU, better modules and it cost level 1 for a x4 skill. Now it costs level 5 in a x8 skill for no bonus and i get more PG/CPU but to fit worse modules in a slot layout i used to have a year ago. How has this progressed anything? Basic is the same as Basic++ except Basic++ requires 2.5mil SP for more PG/CPU and no skill bonus and it will generally cost 1mil to fit up and use, it doesn't even get an extra slot. Basic doesn't even begin with less slots so at least when you did spend 2.5mil SP into a worthless skill you actually got an extra 2 slots at least at the end. Why? It is tiercide but with tiers added, it is a half-breed which doesn't work which ever way you look at it, it doesn't follow tiers like dropsuits do and tiercide is just 1 hull like it used to be. Is it just me or do players like the Basic/Basic+/Basic++ setup? I use basic++ because i can and i need to use the best fit possible because using anything less against PRO AV is gimping it. Are we going in circles? We had tiered HAVs at the start, then after a while we had 1 HAV left and now we have tiered HAV again mixed with tiercide which may possibly happen with UHAV/DHAV. Chrome was the best wasn't it, basic HAV good slot layout cheaper, specialized HAV more expensive good skills worth the upgrade. Is it just me? I feel that basic/basic+/basic++ has just not added anything and might aswell be deleted and keep the basic++ and make is standard like in uprising. Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 100% agree. BTW still cant fit all proto mods and turrets on proto gunnlogi. I can. "Throw on the flux capacitor." activates fuel injector "WOOOOOO!!!"
Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1971	Posted - 2015.03.26 12:03:00 - [14] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Sir Dukey wrote: 100% agree. BTW still cant fit all proto mods and turrets on proto gunnlogi. Working as intended. No it's not. Maybe one or two ADV modules but considering the fact that i'm using both low modules for CPU and PG expansion and I still cannot fit a full tank. That is B.S. "Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7721	Posted - 2015.03.26 12:09:00 - [15] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Sir Dukey wrote: 100% agree. BTW still cant fit all proto mods and turrets on proto gunnlogi. Working as intended. No it's not. Maybe one or two ADV modules but considering the fact that i'm using both low modules for CPU and PG expansion and I still cannot fit a full tank. That is B.S. My test fit was a cpu and PG mod in the lows, 2 proto extenders, one proto hardener, an LSB of whatever grade and a proto rail. Is this fit still possible after the shield fitting nerf? AV
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. 4403	Posted - 2015.03.26 18:22:00 - [16] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Does the op even tank? You don't even proto turrets or complex mods to kill pretty much everything. I used all basic mods and turrets and survive OB's and proto av. This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Sure you can't fit tanks like you used to but they are far stronger now than they were before echo. Tanks need more work obviously but complaining about your tank not being shiny enough is just silly. Top kek I will just hammer your basic HAV into the ground Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 CCP Rattati - "One giant vehicle nerf with more power to AV", you have got to be kidding...''
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. 4403	Posted - 2015.03.26 18:23:00 - [17] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: I think it's tough to release much stronger tanks on pubs. lolpubs If pubs actually had proper matchmaking or meta levels it wouldn't be so bad. I prefer to balance for PC/FW than lolpubs Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 CCP Rattati - "One giant vehicle nerf with more power to AV", you have got to be kidding...''
ThePlayerkyle13 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 206	Posted - 2015.03.26 19:03:00 - [18] - Quote CCP wrote: Working as Intended
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3141	Posted - 2015.03.27 02:02:00 - [19] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Does the op even tank? You don't even proto turrets or complex mods to kill pretty much everything. I used all basic mods and turrets and survive OB's and proto av. This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Sure you can't fit tanks like you used to but they are far stronger now than they were before echo. Tanks need more work obviously but complaining about your tank not being shiny enough is just silly. You're kidding, right? I was sitting in his top turret calling out tanks before Replication. I started a year and a half ago and only get destroyed when getting ambushed, or happen to get glued to something in the redline (which needed to be fixed a very long time ago). Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5590	Posted - 2015.03.27 02:12:00 - [20] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I think it's tough to release much stronger tanks on pubs. lolpubs If pubs actually had proper matchmaking or meta levels it wouldn't be so bad. I prefer to balance for PC/FW than lolpubs Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 While I agree on a 'top-down' approach to balance, if a design works for one mode such as PC but is horribly overpowered for pubs....that's a bad design. Similarly, if a design works in pubs but is underpowered in PC, that's also a bad design. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net

KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1884	Posted - 2015.03.28 04:13:00 - [21] - Quote I surprise myself to find agreeing with most points of the post, especially the fact that + and ++ versions are actually quite unnecessary. One hull would've done it. But I have to absorb the future meta further to give final opinion. Disagreeing big on one: Chrome tanking was bad as it had tiers as heavy as your greatgrandmother! Looking at both sides of the coin. Even Aurum one.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. 4406	Posted - 2015.03.28 12:57:00 - [22] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I think it's tough to release much stronger tanks on pubs. lolpubs If pubs actually had proper matchmaking or meta levels it wouldn't be so bad. I prefer to balance for PC/FW than lolpubs Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 While I agree on a 'top-down' approach to balance, if a design works for one mode such as PC but is horribly overpowered for pubs....that's a bad design. Similarly, if a design works in pubs but is underpowered in PC, that's also a bad design. PC/FW same thing, organized teams hitting each other lolpubs unbalanced mess with no matchmaking, broken team building and not even meta levels seperating things out like plexes do in FW in EVE. Need PVE to take over from lolpubs really and force them into FW for fighting. Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 CCP Rattati - "One giant vehicle nerf with more power to AV", you have got to be kidding...''
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 3141	Posted - 2015.03.28 14:00:00 - [23] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: I surprise myself to find agreeing with most points of the post, especially the fact that + and ++ versions are actually quite unnecessary. One hull would've done it. But I have to absorb the future meta further to give final opinion. Disagreeing big on one: Chrome tanking was bad as it had tiers as heavy as your greatgrandmother! Real end-game, where you sunk 12x worth of SP into a tank to make it great, and it was worth it too. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 948	Posted - 2015.03.28 18:41:00 - [24] - Quote True proto tanks just mean all other tanks would be worthless... This is better than what we had and what it could have been. If there's no point using the protato tanks, then don't use them and enjoy blowing them up instead.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. 4414	Posted - 2015.03.29 12:20:00 - [25] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: True proto tanks just mean all other tanks would be worthless... This is better than what we had and what it could have been. If there's no point using the protato tanks, then don't use them and enjoy blowing them up instead. If i use basic i cannot use proto modules or turrets and am stuck with a basic HAV vs proto AV but the kicker is time ago in Chrome/Uprising i had a basic vehicle in which i could put on proto. We are going in circles now Disclaimer: The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514 CCP Rattati - "One giant vehicle nerf with more power to AV", you have got to be kidding...''


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"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.

"Skill for thee but no skill for me" so is the saying of the swarm infantry.