DUST Search - tanks tested

Shamarskii Simon wrote:

Templar XIII wrote:

Shamarskii Simon wrote:

nickmunson wrote:

i have already describe in my original post yes hardners are balanced if you use them correctly, shield u kite. ur not a brawler, u use your agility. just dont let them be so effective on basic n adv tank hulls , to truely differentiate basic, adv and proto taanks. cuz when my tank if 500k more then adv and his adv tank handles as well, i feel seriously ripped off.

This is where i protest.

I can say the TANKING styles are kinda balanced, but hardeners are not. I'll prove this with:

Shield hardener = Armor hardener (40%)
But!

Longer uptimes for armor hardener + shorter downtime. Continuously repairing w/o delay too. Easier to fit too...

That's why i believe they aren't balanced... For the same resistance armor gets more out of it

IF they should be balanced as you propose, we should get as many anti-shield weapons as we have
in anti-armor weapons (iam talking infantry AV and tank turrets here), which is NOT the case right now.
So, from this standpoint, It feels deserved, that armor hardeners are a bit stronger than shield hardeners in
uptimes and cooldown, though a slight tweaking is always necessary: ain't no such thing as perfect balance.

Anti-Shields:
Plasma-cannon, Flux-grenades, Blaster turret

Anti-Armor:
Swarmies, AV nades, Forge-Gun, Assault HMG, Remote Explosives, Proximity-Explosives,
Mass driver, Rail-turret, Missile turret

Yeah, it's actually fine that armor hardener's have longer uptime shorter down time, BUT the same resistance?

I always looked at it like this:
shield hardeners: short, quick, strong boost to resistance.
armor hardeners: long, slow, low boost to resistance.

Also, any AV can clean up a shield vehicle because of generally lower eHP and recharge delays. I speak from a dropship's perspective here. 2 volleys of wyr swarms will take out base eHP incubi and pythons.

In the sense of tanks (i'm extrapolating, i don't tank but most my friends tank), recharge delay kinda normalizes the two together... also, armor tanks always have higher regen than shield tanks.

With that a few things come to mind when AV comes. surely more things are effective against armor, but armor gets more pro's than shield

Armor:
-higher eHP
-constant aHP/s
-higher HP/s
-shield recharge skill benefits armor more than shield [as it only affects the depleted delay, and shield users know once you're on armor it's over unless yu get lucky]

Shield:
-10/20% resistance to common AV
-no need to fit sHP/s.

Also is prevalent when the tanks are hardened; armor tanks just have the aHP return immediately. so when one is damaging it hardened, it's a waste of ammo because it just reps it back up. Unlike shields where delay is present.

With these in mind, an armor hardened tank right now is better against any form of AV compared to hardened shield vehicles. That's why i believe armor hardeners are NOT balanced.

Lol but I've seen a dual tank maddy.. Had base gunny sHP, and a shield booster. was pretty weird to encounter.


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nickmunson Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 49	Posted - 2015.03.24 06:36:00 - [1] - Quote after alot of time and isk ive come up with the conclusion that tanks are fairly balanced, shield is hit n run with agility , armor more the brawler. not able to move well. the turrets are balance for the most part. the only thing wrong ccp is the missles, slow rate perfect, time to reload fine. but the time to initiate reload is a little to slow, timed to from my end 3-5 seconds on average from when i hit the square to reload, before it would reload.reduce slightly by 1-2 seconds and you will be fine. love me or hate me. you kill me i hunt you.
nickmunson Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 49	Posted - 2015.04.05 11:22:00 - [2] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: nickmunson wrote: after alot of time and isk ive come up with the conclusion that tanks are fairly balanced, shield is hit n run with agility , armor more the brawler. not able to move well. the turrets are balance for the most part. the only thing wrong ccp is the missles, slow rate perfect, time to reload fine. but the time to initiate reload is a little to slow, timed to from my end 3-5 seconds on average from when i hit the square to reload, before it would reload.reduce slightly by 1-2 seconds and you will be fine. blasters cant do any damage through double hardened armor tanks, missile tanks cant really do much either balanced turrets! i disagree, i have been using missles and they seem to be doing fine, they arent op , but they are not bad either, in comparison with the rails which over heat. maybe your tank set up is just not fit correctly , ask the outer heaven tankers who face me and fight along my side when i tank, the xt1s do the job. as for blasters, why would you be using a shield based damage turret against and armor? that makes sense to you? or you just want a jack of all trades turret being the blaster to be good vs shield and armor n infantry. its idea like this that make the game unbalance, put your qq away please, my missle fits are pub and pc tested . rails are fine. blasters when hardeners are down are great, n amazing vs shield tanks. learn your engagements and the correct vehicle hull to use vs what weapon they are using and the correct turret. love me or hate me. you kill me i hunt you.
nickmunson Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 50	Posted - 2015.04.05 11:33:00 - [3] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: In your testing, did you find that AV was too effective or too ineffective? av alone was not all that effective except for the av nades, a solo player with a proto av nade and hive is more then enough as for plasma canons, swarms and forge, they are enough to deter a vehicle but not kill it with out driver error . the only flaw vs tank is the major and mini flux orbitals, as it honesly makes shield based tanks extremely prone if hit by one it takes one av nade or really hit from anything once av wise to kill it. also to mention i have noticed plasma cannons are hitting armor for a little bit more armor damage then they should.and i feel the forge is not getting its bonus towards armor as much as it should.swarms are working perfectly as to be expected. yet again tanks are not op but they also take a little team effort or thinking to kill . although i would nerf the hardners effectiveness for adv tanks as they can take about as much damage as a proto which is not fair to ground guys vs an advance maddy with a blaster.maybe have basic have a 15% penalty and adv 10% penalty to armor hardner effectiveness. and proto 0, that way it motivates you to go the whole way and not stop at adv level as i have been seeing love me or hate me. you kill me i hunt you.
nickmunson Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 50	Posted - 2015.04.05 11:38:00 - [4] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: nickmunson wrote: i disagree, i have been using missles and they seem to be doing fine, they arent op , but they are not bad either, in comparison with the rails which over heat. maybe your tank set up is just not fit correctly , ask the outer heaven tankers who face me and fight along my side when i tank, the xt1s do the job. as for blasters, why would you be using a shield based damage turret against and armor? that makes sense to you? or you just want a jack of all trades turret being the blaster to be good vs shield and armor n infantry. its idea like this that make the game unbalance, put your qq away please, my missle fits are pub and pc tested . rails are fine. blasters when hardeners are down are great, n amazing vs shield tanks. learn your engagements and the correct vehicle hull to use vs what weapon they are using and the correct turret. Good summary, the missile turret is much better than it gets credit for.. Just with how it works, it requires a change of playstyle.. rather than .. Ready.. Aim.. Fire - 12 missiles blap target Now the guy with a missile turret is expected to know how to tank, what a terrible burden thus why i stand by my missle comment being one of the top missle tankers in game and have been for a while. at first it was a tough adjustment but playing with fits and fixing some skills correctly i have found a very reliable missle fit. also a secondary for a 1v1 engagement to laugh at the other tank and then make him run for his life. love me or hate me. you kill me i hunt you.
nickmunson Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 50	Posted - 2015.04.05 18:39:00 - [5] - Quote i have already describe in my original post yes hardners are balanced if you use them correctly, shield u kite. ur not a brawler, u use your agility. just dont let them be so effective on basic n adv tank hulls , to truely differentiate basic, adv and proto taanks. cuz when my tank if 500k more then adv and his adv tank handles as well, i feel seriously ripped off. love me or hate me. you kill me i hunt you.
nickmunson Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 51	Posted - 2015.04.06 15:52:00 - [6] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Templar XIII wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: nickmunson wrote: i have already describe in my original post yes hardners are balanced if you use them correctly, shield u kite. ur not a brawler, u use your agility. just dont let them be so effective on basic n adv tank hulls , to truely differentiate basic, adv and proto taanks. cuz when my tank if 500k more then adv and his adv tank handles as well, i feel seriously ripped off. This is where i protest. I can say the TANKING styles are kinda balanced, but hardeners are not. I'll prove this with: Shield hardener = Armor hardener (40%) But! Longer uptimes for armor hardener + shorter downtime. Continuously repairing w/o delay too. Easier to fit too... That's why i believe they aren't balanced... For the same resistance armor gets more out of it IF they should be balanced as you propose, we should get as many anti-shield weapons as we have in anti-armor weapons (iam talking infantry AV and tank turrets here), which is NOT the case right now. So, from this standpoint, It feels deserved, that armor hardeners are a bit stronger than shield hardeners in uptimes and cooldown, though a slight tweaking is always necessary: ain't no such thing as perfect balance. Anti-Shields: Plasma-cannon, Flux-grenades, Blaster turret Anti-Armor: Swarmies, AV nades, Forge-Gun, Assault HMG, Remote Explosives, Proximity-Explosives, Mass driver, Rail-turret, Missile turret Yeah, it's actually fine that armor hardener's have longer uptime shorter down time, BUT the same resistance? I always looked at it like this: shield hardeners: short, quick, strong boost to resistance. armor hardeners: long, slow, low boost to resistance. Also, any AV can clean up a shield vehicle because of generally lower eHP and recharge delays. I speak from a dropship's perspective here. 2 volleys of wyr swarms will take out base eHP incubi and pythons. In the sense of tanks (i'm extrapolating, i don't tank but most my friends tank), recharge delay kinda normalizes the two together... also, armor tanks always have higher regen than shield tanks. With that a few things come to mind when AV comes. surely more things are effective against armor, but armor gets more pro's than shield Armor: -higher eHP -constant aHP/s -higher HP/s -shield recharge skill benefits armor more than shield [as it only affects the depleted delay, and shield users know once you're on armor it's over unless yu get lucky] Shield: -10/20% resistance to common AV -no need to fit sHP/s. Also is prevalent when the tanks are hardened; armor tanks just have the aHP return immediately. so when one is damaging it hardened, it's a waste of ammo because it just reps it back up. Unlike shields where delay is present. With these in mind, an armor hardened tank right now is better against any form of AV compared to hardened shield vehicles. That's why i believe armor hardeners are NOT balanced. Lol but I've seen a dual tank maddy.. Had base gunny sHP, and a shield booster. was pretty weird to encounter. you can not compare with drop ship stats as drop ships are broken in comparison especially the python. as for hardners you are in correct, shield tanks have a shield boost, armor does not, as well as you can increase the mount of shield reps as well as lower the delay. in saying that, an armor tank starts getting shot it takes a while to get out of the way and start moving, a shield tank gets hit , its gone it can out maneuver and run away . it can turn on a dime with no issues to run away as well. thus why i say it is balanced. because you have not tried chasing down a shield tank with a maddy yet obviously, its not going to happen. as well as av, you just hit the shield boost and run. as i said before learn the newer tanking styles to make it work and you will soon come to see how balanced it is. your use to the old shield tanking styles where you could just sit there and brawl. and that is not what ccp intended with shield tanking. shield is the get in hit and run . if your sitting around trying to engage with a shield tank then you are tanking foolishly.utilize its agility and speed. as you would a scout vs heavy. you want to brawl, then armor is the way to go. this is in correlation with eve. it is the same way. if you sit around with a shield tanked you are asking and deserve to die. and if anything shield tanking if done correctly is superior as it has the capability to get full shields right back . just your use to passive tanking it which was op before and why it got nerfed. sorry you are not gonna get your op shield tanks that ruined tank vs tank engagements. you now have to actually have skill to tank. not to mention the gunlogi is a far surperior sniper then the maddy as you can stack over heat mods and damage mods. love me or hate me. you kill me i hunt you.
nickmunson Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 52	Posted - 2015.04.07 08:05:00 - [7] - Quote yes there is regulators for sheild tanks. look. love me or hate me. you kill me i hunt you.
nickmunson Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 54	Posted - 2015.04.07 08:16:00 - [8] - Quote yes we can go 3 of 3 if you like with a shield tanker vs you. shield tanking takes skill . the hardners are honestly great . cause what you are not taking into effect, is that av nades, forge, swarms, all get bonuses to armor damage. only shield av is flux and plasma current, so your hardners if hit by a forge or swarms are null and void if you fit correctly try 3 hardners a shield ext, and a over heat. as well as a regulator and i believe youll need a pg mod. that fit is amazing your get in hit your target and get away quickly. your not thinking of what the gunlogi offers. 1. its speed and maneuvering far makes up for the difference in how long the hardners last and cool down. 2. if you recall the orininal bonuses ccp intended shield tanks for long range engagements if your near av then your prolly not were you should be with your tank. 3. ask ccp rattiti for his discription on the role and how the different tanks were meant to be used. it pretty much is summed up right here. with fall off, blasters are worthless. maybe increase the cool down . but the length is fine, they are meant for short Bursts. what the problem is not the tanks, its players playstyle, no one wants to snipe with a tank they wanna be in the middle of ****. but the role of a sniping rail tank go gunlogi as it has more slots for dmg n heat sinks 1 dmg n 2 heat sinks 1 hardner and 1 shield u can take a hit n remove. love me or hate me. you kill me i hunt you.
nickmunson Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 54	Posted - 2015.04.08 14:16:00 - [9] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: nickmunson wrote: yes we can go 3 of 3 if you like with a shield tanker vs you. shield tanking takes skill . the hardners are honestly great . cause what you are not taking into effect, is that av nades, forge, swarms, all get bonuses to armor damage. only shield av is flux and plasma current, so your hardners if hit by a forge or swarms are null and void if you fit correctly try 3 hardners a shield ext, and a over heat. as well as a regulator and i believe youll need a pg mod. that fit is amazing your get in hit your target and get away quickly. your not thinking of what the gunlogi offers. 1. its speed and maneuvering far makes up for the difference in how long the hardners last and cool down. 2. if you recall the orininal bonuses ccp intended shield tanks for long range engagements if your near av then your prolly not were you should be with your tank. 3. ask ccp rattiti for his discription on the role and how the different tanks were meant to be used. it pretty much is summed up right here. with fall off, blasters are worthless. maybe increase the cool down . but the length is fine, they are meant for short Bursts. what the problem is not the tanks, its players playstyle, no one wants to snipe with a tank they wanna be in the middle of ****. but the role of a sniping rail tank go gunlogi as it has more slots for dmg n heat sinks 1 dmg n 2 heat sinks 1 hardner and 1 shield u can take a hit n remove. You can't have more than one heat sink... You also mention a fit using all 5 high slots but also include a shield regulator, which is also a high slot currently Do actually pilot the fits you're suggesting in game? I'd love to see video of it. yeah you can, done it. heat sinks are like any other module and can be stacked. with 2 on you can fire 8 shots with out over heat about. i have the fit still saved, but your right on the regulator. havent used them, but the fact there is something to lower the delay while hardened. there you go. dont know where you think you can fit only one heat sink. that would of been broken. love me or hate me. you kill me i hunt you.
nickmunson Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 54	Posted - 2015.04.09 10:02:00 - [10] - Quote they must of patched it because the first day you definitly could and i did it love me or hate me. you kill me i hunt you.