DUST Search - tanks tested

nickmunson wrote:

Shamarskii Simon wrote:

Templar XIII wrote:

Shamarskii Simon wrote:

nickmunson wrote:

i have already describe in my original post yes hardners are balanced if you use them correctly, shield u kite. ur not a brawler, u use your agility. just dont let them be so effective on basic n adv tank hulls , to truely differentiate basic, adv and proto taanks. cuz when my tank if 500k more then adv and his adv tank handles as well, i feel seriously ripped off.

This is where i protest.

I can say the TANKING styles are kinda balanced, but hardeners are not. I'll prove this with:

Shield hardener = Armor hardener (40%)
But!

Longer uptimes for armor hardener + shorter downtime. Continuously repairing w/o delay too. Easier to fit too...

That's why i believe they aren't balanced... For the same resistance armor gets more out of it

IF they should be balanced as you propose, we should get as many anti-shield weapons as we have
in anti-armor weapons (iam talking infantry AV and tank turrets here), which is NOT the case right now.
So, from this standpoint, It feels deserved, that armor hardeners are a bit stronger than shield hardeners in
uptimes and cooldown, though a slight tweaking is always necessary: ain't no such thing as perfect balance.

Anti-Shields:
Plasma-cannon, Flux-grenades, Blaster turret

Anti-Armor:
Swarmies, AV nades, Forge-Gun, Assault HMG, Remote Explosives, Proximity-Explosives,
Mass driver, Rail-turret, Missile turret

Yeah, it's actually fine that armor hardener's have longer uptime shorter down time, BUT the same resistance?

I always looked at it like this:
shield hardeners: short, quick, strong boost to resistance.
armor hardeners: long, slow, low boost to resistance.

Also, any AV can clean up a shield vehicle because of generally lower eHP and recharge delays. I speak from a dropship's perspective here. 2 volleys of wyr swarms will take out base eHP incubi and pythons.

In the sense of tanks (i'm extrapolating, i don't tank but most my friends tank), recharge delay kinda normalizes the two together... also, armor tanks always have higher regen than shield tanks.

With that a few things come to mind when AV comes. surely more things are effective against armor, but armor gets more pro's than shield

Armor:
-higher eHP
-constant aHP/s
-higher HP/s
-shield recharge skill benefits armor more than shield [as it only affects the depleted delay, and shield users know once you're on armor it's over unless yu get lucky]

Shield:
-10/20% resistance to common AV
-no need to fit sHP/s.

Also is prevalent when the tanks are hardened; armor tanks just have the aHP return immediately. so when one is damaging it hardened, it's a waste of ammo because it just reps it back up. Unlike shields where delay is present.

With these in mind, an armor hardened tank right now is better against any form of AV compared to hardened shield vehicles. That's why i believe armor hardeners are NOT balanced.

Lol but I've seen a dual tank maddy.. Had base gunny sHP, and a shield booster. was pretty weird to encounter.

you can not compare with drop ship stats as drop ships are broken in comparison especially the python. as for hardners you are in correct, shield tanks have a shield boost, armor does not, as well as you can increase the mount of shield reps as well as lower the delay. in saying that, an armor tank starts getting shot it takes a while to get out of the way and start moving, a shield tank gets hit , its gone it can out maneuver and run away . it can turn on a dime with no issues to run away as well. thus why i say it is balanced. because you have not tried chasing down a shield tank with a maddy yet obviously, its not going to happen. as well as av, you just hit the shield boost and run. as i said before learn the newer tanking styles to make it work and you will soon come to see how balanced it is. your use to the old shield tanking styles where you could just sit there and brawl. and that is not what ccp intended with shield tanking. shield is the get in hit and run . if your sitting around trying to engage with a shield tank then you are tanking foolishly.utilize its agility and speed. as you would a scout vs heavy. you want to brawl, then armor is the way to go. this is in correlation with eve. it is the same way. if you sit around with a shield tanked you are asking and deserve to die. and if anything shield tanking if done correctly is superior as it has the capability to get full shields right back . just your use to passive tanking it which was op before and why it got nerfed. sorry you are not gonna get your op shield tanks that ruined tank vs tank engagements. you now have to actually have skill to tank. not to mention the gunlogi is a far surperior sniper then the maddy as you can stack over heat mods and damage mods.


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Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood Rise Of Legion. 264	Posted - 2015.04.05 17:24:00 - [1] - Quote There is only one way i'll accept this. Are hardeners balanced? I also think Rails heat up too quickly (2 rounds, 3 to O.H) it should be around 3 rounds, 3.5/4 to O.H) and missiles need a slight buff... I'm used to being kited to missiles in my DS but... Now i kinda shrug it off... :( Just my opinion for that though Entering the void and becoming wind. Message for 1v1 air to air
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood Rise Of Legion. 267	Posted - 2015.04.06 02:30:00 - [2] - Quote nickmunson wrote: i have already describe in my original post yes hardners are balanced if you use them correctly, shield u kite. ur not a brawler, u use your agility. just dont let them be so effective on basic n adv tank hulls , to truely differentiate basic, adv and proto taanks. cuz when my tank if 500k more then adv and his adv tank handles as well, i feel seriously ripped off. This is where i protest. I can say the TANKING styles are kinda balanced, but hardeners are not. I'll prove this with: Shield hardener = Armor hardener (40%) But! Longer uptimes for armor hardener + shorter downtime. Continuously repairing w/o delay too. Easier to fit too... That's why i believe they aren't balanced... For the same resistance armor gets more out of it Entering the void and becoming wind. Message for 1v1 air to air
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood Rise Of Legion. 267	Posted - 2015.04.06 11:28:00 - [3] - Quote Templar XIII wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: nickmunson wrote: i have already describe in my original post yes hardners are balanced if you use them correctly, shield u kite. ur not a brawler, u use your agility. just dont let them be so effective on basic n adv tank hulls , to truely differentiate basic, adv and proto taanks. cuz when my tank if 500k more then adv and his adv tank handles as well, i feel seriously ripped off. This is where i protest. I can say the TANKING styles are kinda balanced, but hardeners are not. I'll prove this with: Shield hardener = Armor hardener (40%) But! Longer uptimes for armor hardener + shorter downtime. Continuously repairing w/o delay too. Easier to fit too... That's why i believe they aren't balanced... For the same resistance armor gets more out of it IF they should be balanced as you propose, we should get as many anti-shield weapons as we have in anti-armor weapons (iam talking infantry AV and tank turrets here), which is NOT the case right now. So, from this standpoint, It feels deserved, that armor hardeners are a bit stronger than shield hardeners in uptimes and cooldown, though a slight tweaking is always necessary: ain't no such thing as perfect balance. Anti-Shields: Plasma-cannon, Flux-grenades, Blaster turret Anti-Armor: Swarmies, AV nades, Forge-Gun, Assault HMG, Remote Explosives, Proximity-Explosives, Mass driver, Rail-turret, Missile turret Yeah, it's actually fine that armor hardener's have longer uptime shorter down time, BUT the same resistance? I always looked at it like this: shield hardeners: short, quick, strong boost to resistance. armor hardeners: long, slow, low boost to resistance. Also, any AV can clean up a shield vehicle because of generally lower eHP and recharge delays. I speak from a dropship's perspective here. 2 volleys of wyr swarms will take out base eHP incubi and pythons. In the sense of tanks (i'm extrapolating, i don't tank but most my friends tank), recharge delay kinda normalizes the two together... also, armor tanks always have higher regen than shield tanks. With that a few things come to mind when AV comes. surely more things are effective against armor, but armor gets more pro's than shield Armor: -higher eHP -constant aHP/s -higher HP/s -shield recharge skill benefits armor more than shield [as it only affects the depleted delay, and shield users know once you're on armor it's over unless yu get lucky] Shield: -10/20% resistance to common AV -no need to fit sHP/s. Also is prevalent when the tanks are hardened; armor tanks just have the aHP return immediately. so when one is damaging it hardened, it's a waste of ammo because it just reps it back up. Unlike shields where delay is present. With these in mind, an armor hardened tank right now is better against any form of AV compared to hardened shield vehicles. That's why i believe armor hardeners are NOT balanced. Lol but I've seen a dual tank maddy.. Had base gunny sHP, and a shield booster. was pretty weird to encounter. Entering the void and becoming wind. Message for 1v1 air to air
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood Rise Of Legion. 273	Posted - 2015.04.06 17:21:00 - [4] - Quote nickmunson wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: Templar XIII wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: nickmunson wrote: i have already describe in my original post yes hardners are balanced if you use them correctly, shield u kite. ur not a brawler, u use your agility. just dont let them be so effective on basic n adv tank hulls , to truely differentiate basic, adv and proto taanks. cuz when my tank if 500k more then adv and his adv tank handles as well, i feel seriously ripped off. This is where i protest. I can say the TANKING styles are kinda balanced, but hardeners are not. I'll prove this with: Shield hardener = Armor hardener (40%) But! Longer uptimes for armor hardener + shorter downtime. Continuously repairing w/o delay too. Easier to fit too... That's why i believe they aren't balanced... For the same resistance armor gets more out of it IF they should be balanced as you propose, we should get as many anti-shield weapons as we have in anti-armor weapons (iam talking infantry AV and tank turrets here), which is NOT the case right now. So, from this standpoint, It feels deserved, that armor hardeners are a bit stronger than shield hardeners in uptimes and cooldown, though a slight tweaking is always necessary: ain't no such thing as perfect balance. Anti-Shields: Plasma-cannon, Flux-grenades, Blaster turret Anti-Armor: Swarmies, AV nades, Forge-Gun, Assault HMG, Remote Explosives, Proximity-Explosives, Mass driver, Rail-turret, Missile turret Yeah, it's actually fine that armor hardener's have longer uptime shorter down time, BUT the same resistance? I always looked at it like this: shield hardeners: short, quick, strong boost to resistance. armor hardeners: long, slow, low boost to resistance. Also, any AV can clean up a shield vehicle because of generally lower eHP and recharge delays. I speak from a dropship's perspective here. 2 volleys of wyr swarms will take out base eHP incubi and pythons. In the sense of tanks (i'm extrapolating, i don't tank but most my friends tank), recharge delay kinda normalizes the two together... also, armor tanks always have higher regen than shield tanks. With that a few things come to mind when AV comes. surely more things are effective against armor, but armor gets more pro's than shield Armor: -higher eHP -constant aHP/s -higher HP/s -shield recharge skill benefits armor more than shield [as it only affects the depleted delay, and shield users know once you're on armor it's over unless yu get lucky] Shield: -10/20% resistance to common AV -no need to fit sHP/s. Also is prevalent when the tanks are hardened; armor tanks just have the aHP return immediately. so when one is damaging it hardened, it's a waste of ammo because it just reps it back up. Unlike shields where delay is present. With these in mind, an armor hardened tank right now is better against any form of AV compared to hardened shield vehicles. That's why i believe armor hardeners are NOT balanced. Lol but I've seen a dual tank maddy.. Had base gunny sHP, and a shield booster. was pretty weird to encounter. you can not compare with drop ship stats as drop ships are broken in comparison especially the python. as for hardners you are in correct, shield tanks have a shield boost, armor does not, as well as you can increase the mount of shield reps as well as lower the delay. in saying that, an armor tank starts getting shot it takes a while to get out of the way and start moving, a shield tank gets hit , its gone it can out maneuver and run away . it can turn on a dime with no issues to run away as well. thus why i say it is balanced. because you have not tried chasing down a shield tank with a maddy yet obviously, its not going to happen. as well as av, you just hit the shield boost and run. as i said before learn the newer tanking styles to make it work and you will soon come to see how balanced it is. your use to the old shield tanking styles where you could just sit there and brawl. and that is not what ccp intended with shield tanking. shield is the get in hit and run . if your sitting around trying to engage with a shield tank then you are tanking foolishly.utilize its agility and speed. as you would a scout vs heavy. you want to brawl, then armor is the way to go. this is in correlation with eve. it is the same way. if you sit around with a shield tanked you are asking and deserve to die. and if anything shield tanking if done correctly is superior as it has the capability to get full shields right back . just your use to passive tanking it which was op before and why it got nerfed. sorry you are not gonna get your op shield tanks that ruined tank vs tank engagements. you now have to actually have skill to tank. not to mention the gunlogi is a far surperior sniper then the maddy as you can stack over heat mods and damage mods. Line breaks please? I'm not being rude but... It's an eye strain. Shield boost is very unstable, anything that can break recharge (which is everything until dual hardened against CBR7 swarm) will completely negate it firstly. Secondly it's fiting intensive (heavy boost) or it doesn't give enough sHP (light on a tank). Thirdly, as an active module one must wait to cool down to kickstart the recharge. Armor reps do not have these limitations. To use regulators you have to use up your high slots, which is your sHP. There are no ways to boost sHP/s, one's recharge is locked away and can't be modified. Also, none of what you said proves that armor hardeners are balanced... I didn't say tanks were unbalanced, i said the HARDENERS are unbalanced. The only place you see good shield tanking at the moment is with infantry, where high recharge at low delay to quickly recover sHP to max. There aren't any recharger/energizers for tanks (bulking sHP/s) and regulators (reducing recharge delay) are in the wrong slots. The ADS tourney! Join today!
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood Rise Of Legion. 273	Posted - 2015.04.06 17:30:00 - [5] - Quote Ran out of characters. But that's off topic, what I'm saying is that armor hardeners are greater than shield hardeners, by a large enough margin that it is unbalanced. I didn't say tanks are unbalanced, and I disagree w/ the OP because it's "believed to be balanced." I simply disagree, no dissing, nothing negative. Not asking for OP tanks or asking how to tank. I'm saying it's unbalanced and i gave proof of that unbalance. I know I sound douchy but could you disprove me with hard evidence? Not what you "assume," which is what Templar did. That explanation is reasonable, clear, and uses "hard" facts like the bulk of AV is stronger against armor. The ADS tourney! Join today!
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood Rise Of Legion. 277	Posted - 2015.04.08 04:01:00 - [6] - Quote nickmunson wrote: yes there is regulators for sheild tanks. look. Its in highs. That's not right, nuh uh. The ADS tourney! Join today!