DUST Search - Logis Need Buffed ( Read Numbers )

RemingtonBeaver wrote:

Yeah, the slot layouts need balance.

At Proto levels:

Caldari 4H/3L, 1 light weapon, 1 sidearm, 4 equipment slots, No grenade slot
Amarr 3H/4L 1 light weapon, 2 sidearm 4 equipment slots 1 grenade slot
Gallente 3H/5L, 1 light weapon, 4 equipment slots, 1 grenade slot
Minmatar 4H/4L, 1 light weapon, 3 equipment slots, 2 grenade slots

Tier'd High/Low progression based on end state.

Caldari Basic 3/1 20% bandwidth increase
Amarr Basic 2/2 1 sidearm
Gallente Basic 1/3
Minmatar Basic 2/2 1 grenade

Cadari Adv 3/2 25% bandwidth increase, 1 sidearm
Amarr Adv 3/3 2 sidearm
Gallente Adv 2/4 4 equipment early (no Adv perk to think of)
Minmatar Adv 3/3 2 grenades

Equipment a progression of
2/3/4

With Minmatar and Gallente capping at Adv level for equipment.

Amarr and Caldari have one less H/L slot so a sidearm is added.

Caldari in response to having no grenade slot would receive an overall 30% bandwidth increase tier'd of course. This would increase their usefulness to the team but limit their ability to sit on their own hives and spam attack with grenades. Their team members however will not be so kind.

Minmatar has one less equipment slot so an additional grenade slot is added. This will promote their usefulness on the front lines as healers, giving them an inherent defensive capability to deter aggressors. They rely less on equipment than the other races.

Amarr get an additional Sidearm due to a less effective racial bonus than the other suits.

Caldari get Nanohive bonuses so more equipment slots
Amarr get Uplink bonuses so more equipment slots
Minmatar get Rep Tool so an additional grenade slot to make defensive capabilities higher in the trenches
Gallente get Scanning bonus so more equipment to keep scans up at different ranges and profiles

The problem I see with this might be a Minmatar hive build used just for grenade spam. Possible RE builds from the Caldari might be a nuisance.

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HOLY PERFECTION Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 78	Posted - 2015.03.22 19:13:00 - [1] - Quote Logis need a buff and its about time too. Open the link below. If it doesn't open ill re-upload it. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1f_q71YOjK1SoaIkG7Ei0rgmhGcs1JUdaHTeVa8bq8XY/edit?usp=sharing *I WILL WIN... DESTINY*
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1501	Posted - 2015.03.22 19:29:00 - [2] - Quote Recommend you post a summary of your proposed changes and / or have it fairly clear in the spreadsheet. My initial glance is that you are changing very little...in some cases making the "proposed" logi less viable in combat. Recommend you describe your thought process or why you think some of the changes should be considered a positive. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Drogan Reeth Free Trade Corp 97	Posted - 2015.03.22 20:30:00 - [3] - Quote Those all seem like nerfs to me. At least to the proto versions. Seems like standard buffs but proto nerfs, unless I'm reading it wrong.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 259	Posted - 2015.03.22 21:59:00 - [4] - Quote Maybe I don't see your opinion, but.... What is this slot layout? Caldari logistic proto? 3/3? 3 equipments? Hmm... Please can you tell me the buff for the Caldari logistic (I take it as an example, because it's currently the most useless suit). Giving to the logistics a sidearm weapon is not a solution. Many people don't use sidearm, si why give them it "as a buff" Especially if you need the slot layout! Want to buff logi? - more eHP - more CPU (for the Caldari logistic only) - a correct slot layout (f.e. Advanced logi must have 6 slots instead of 5) - bigger speed I'm sorry for my bad English writting and comprehension.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5562	Posted - 2015.03.22 22:05:00 - [5] - Quote Drogan Reeth wrote: Those all seem like nerfs to me. At least to the proto versions. Seems like standard buffs but proto nerfs, unless I'm reading it wrong. Yeah....this is even more messed up than the existing progression. Amarr Gains a slot, 8 total Caldari Loses 3 slots, 6 total Gallente Loses 1 slot 7 total Minmatar No change, 8 total So a nerf to two of the logis, a buff to one, and no change to the other. I don't even know what the general plan is here, did you just throw darts at a board randomly and picked numbers accordingly? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Nirwanda Vaughns 1565	Posted - 2015.03.22 22:06:00 - [6] - Quote An idea i had to give logis a littl ehelpig hand was that when using a rep tool it generates a mild reflective shield which deflects incoming wepaons fire in order to help logis stay alive a little better from ranged fire. tbh with all the noobtube spamming recently too logis need a 99% resistance to explosive lol Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner
Mad Syringe ReDust Inc. 587	Posted - 2015.03.22 22:13:00 - [7] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: An idea i had to give logis a littl ehelpig hand was that when using a rep tool it generates a mild reflective shield which deflects incoming wepaons fire in order to help logis stay alive a little better from ranged fire. tbh with all the noobtube spamming recently too logis need a 99% resistance to explosive lol It's not a noobtube by the way, it's the minmatar way of saying "Hi!" to enemy logi trains... Basically a hard counter to the logi train and as that it needs to stay where it is. If you can't hide, you better start to shoot aswell to reduce the threat. This public service anouncement was brought to you by your friendly neighbourhood massholing logi...
HOLY PERFECTION Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 78	Posted - 2015.03.23 00:16:00 - [8] - Quote This is a response to almost all your questions. For one Most logis equipment are fine in the equipment area. However, almost every logi needs base Shield and Armor Buffs. The reason i underestimated all the numbers is because out of fear some scout would come in and say thats to "OP". That is why it sounds like the protos are nerfed. But im glad you guys agree that logis need buffed. I might make another graph to show what I honestly think needs to be done. *I WILL WIN... DESTINY*
zDemoncake Horizons' Edge 400	Posted - 2015.03.23 00:27:00 - [9] - Quote I feel pretty content with where some of the logistics are now. I cannot speak for the Caldari, but from poking around General Discussion, and the Features and Ideas section of the forums, people say they need help. I read somewhere that Rattati was proposing switching the Assault and Logi speeds to maintain the EHP to speed ration, that way there are in line with the other suits. e.g Sentinels have the most ehp, but move slow, Scouts have low ehp, but have high speed. CEO of Horizons' Edge's mercenary division *My soul, your beats!* Enemy to many; equal to none.
HOLY PERFECTION Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 78	Posted - 2015.03.23 02:13:00 - [10] - Quote Thanks for the responses. *I WILL WIN... DESTINY*

RemingtonBeaver Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2098	Posted - 2015.03.23 09:06:00 - [11] - Quote Yeah, the slot layouts need balance. At Proto levels: Caldari 4H/3L, 1 light weapon, 1 sidearm, 4 equipment slots, No grenade slot Amarr 3H/4L 1 light weapon, 1 sidearm 4 equipment slots 1 grenade slot Gallente 3H/5L, 1 light weapon, 4 equipment slots, 1 grenade slot Minmatar 4H/4L, 1 light weapon, 3 equipment slots, 2 grenade slots Amarr and Caldari have one less H/L slot so a sidearm is added. Caldari in response to having no grenade slot would receive a 30% bandwidth increase. This would increase their usefulness to the team but limit their ability to sit on their own hives and spam attack with grenades. Their team members however will not be so kind. Minmatar has one less equipment slot so an additional grenade slot is added. This will promote their usefulness on the front lines as healers, giving them an inherent defensive capability to deter aggressors. They rely less on equipment than the other races. Caldari get Nanohive bonuses so more equipment slots Amarr get Uplink bonuses so more equipment slots Minmatar get Rep Tool so an additional grenade slot to make defensive capabilities higher in the trenches Gallente get Scanning bonus so more equipment to keep scans up at different ranges and profiles The problem I see with this might be a Minmatar hive build used just for grenade spam. Possible RE builds from the Caldari might be a nuisance. Unleash the BIMBOBOT!
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3231	Posted - 2015.03.23 11:06:00 - [12] - Quote Really, the best solution is this: -Follow assault progression for highs and lows -Remove all sidearms -Equipment progresses 3/4/4 Now logis are logis and have decent slot layouts at all tiers. To the Amarr logis, yes you're losing a sidearm, but youre gaining 1-2 equipment slots that actually fit your role. If you want to assault, I suggest you try that other med suit that is actually not that bad. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
hold that Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 721	Posted - 2015.03.23 11:17:00 - [13] - Quote Logis are damn near perfect. I say near because cal logi (but maybe when they fix the proto hive stacks they will).
Big miku Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 533	Posted - 2015.03.23 11:43:00 - [14] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: To the Amarr logis, yes you're losing a sidearm, but youre gaining 1-2 equipment slots that actually fit your role. If you want to assault, I suggest you try that other med suit that is actually not that bad. Because sidearms are exclusive to Assault suits.
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game RUST415 486	Posted - 2015.03.23 11:54:00 - [15] - Quote Amarr needs the buff you describe, it should definitely have another low slot, and a bit more base HP (every logis should have this) Fix the game before trying to add anything else. (Hint: hit detection, lags, glitches,.. you've got some work :) )
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix 763	Posted - 2015.03.23 13:35:00 - [16] - Quote All logis need rep tool bonus for a start, and all logis need base stat buffs. Gallente needs one extra high and low slot at STD and an extra low at ADV. Caldari needs more fitting room and maybe a sidearm for a low slot. Amarr needs better stats and an extra low Min is absolutely fine. The main problem is the race specific bonuses, they are garbage. Rep tool range should be for all logis as we dont have the same system in EVE with capactior transfer and we still dont have remote shield boosters. All should then get a bonus to another piece of equipment. e.g. min gets rep tool bonus and then a bonus to proximity mines (more equipment is needed for this to work) or maybe a slightly better reptool bonus + a bonus to scans or something. all these things would make logis better.
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix 763	Posted - 2015.03.23 13:37:00 - [17] - Quote RemingtonBeaver wrote: Yeah, the slot layouts need balance. At Proto levels: Caldari 4H/3L, 1 light weapon, 1 sidearm, 4 equipment slots, No grenade slot Amarr 3H/4L 1 light weapon, 2 sidearm 4 equipment slots 1 grenade slot Gallente 3H/5L, 1 light weapon, 4 equipment slots, 1 grenade slot Minmatar 4H/4L, 1 light weapon, 3 equipment slots, 2 grenade slots Tier'd High/Low progression based on end state. Caldari Basic 3/1 20% bandwidth increase Amarr Basic 2/2 1 sidearm Gallente Basic 1/3 Minmatar Basic 2/2 1 grenade Cadari Adv 3/2 25% bandwidth increase, 1 sidearm Amarr Adv 3/3 2 sidearm Gallente Adv 2/4 4 equipment early (no Adv perk to think of) Minmatar Adv 3/3 2 grenades Equipment a progression of 2/3/4 With Minmatar and Gallente capping at Adv level for equipment. Amarr and Caldari have one less H/L slot so a sidearm is added. Caldari in response to having no grenade slot would receive an overall 30% bandwidth increase tier'd of course. This would increase their usefulness to the team but limit their ability to sit on their own hives and spam attack with grenades. Their team members however will not be so kind. Minmatar has one less equipment slot so an additional grenade slot is added. This will promote their usefulness on the front lines as healers, giving them an inherent defensive capability to deter aggressors. They rely less on equipment than the other races. Amarr get an additional Sidearm due to a less effective racial bonus than the other suits. Caldari get Nanohive bonuses so more equipment slots Amarr get Uplink bonuses so more equipment slots Minmatar get Rep Tool so an additional grenade slot to make defensive capabilities higher in the trenches Gallente get Scanning bonus so more equipment to keep scans up at different ranges and profiles The problem I see with this might be a Minmatar hive build used just for grenade spam. Possible RE builds from the Caldari might be a nuisance. are you high? No suit should be able to carry 3 weapons. give it either an extra low OR an extra equipment slot.
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 362	Posted - 2015.03.23 13:48:00 - [18] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: All logis need rep tool bonus for a start, and all logis need base stat buffs. Gallente needs one extra high and low slot at STD and an extra low at ADV. Caldari needs more fitting room and maybe a sidearm for a low slot. Amarr needs better stats and an extra low Min is absolutely fine. The main problem is the race specific bonuses, they are garbage. Rep tool range should be for all logis as we dont have the same system in EVE with capactior transfer and we still dont have remote shield boosters. All should then get a bonus to another piece of equipment. e.g. min gets rep tool bonus and then a bonus to proximity mines (more equipment is needed for this to work) or maybe a slightly better reptool bonus + a bonus to scans or something. all these things would make logis better. First coherent responce +1 I'm for spreading the racial bonuses Ps those posting in this thread should list Thier logi dedication I have 3 logis amar gal min to proto max skilled obviously The amar logi needs either more hp or more mobility personally I feel logis are entirely to slow and I am for an across the board speed increase over Any hp gains ..speed is essential to logistics Logis should move faster than assaults slower than scouts no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Echo 1991 Titans of Phoenix 763	Posted - 2015.03.23 17:45:00 - [19] - Quote Maiden selena MORTIMOR wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: All logis need rep tool bonus for a start, and all logis need base stat buffs. Gallente needs one extra high and low slot at STD and an extra low at ADV. Caldari needs more fitting room and maybe a sidearm for a low slot. Amarr needs better stats and an extra low Min is absolutely fine. The main problem is the race specific bonuses, they are garbage. Rep tool range should be for all logis as we dont have the same system in EVE with capactior transfer and we still dont have remote shield boosters. All should then get a bonus to another piece of equipment. e.g. min gets rep tool bonus and then a bonus to proximity mines (more equipment is needed for this to work) or maybe a slightly better reptool bonus + a bonus to scans or something. all these things would make logis better. First coherent responce +1 I'm for spreading the racial bonuses Ps those posting in this thread should list Thier logi dedication I have 3 logis amar gal min to proto max skilled obviously The amar logi needs either more hp or more mobility personally I feel logis are entirely to slow and I am for an across the board speed increase over Any hp gains ..speed is essential to logistics Logis should move faster than assaults slower than scouts It fits Thier role as a SUPPORT CLASS they don't need ehp their not supposed to take fire they need mobility to avoid damage and better to move Thier support around the field A logistics suit should be the second fastest role in dust with the second to lowest ehp ..atm they are the 3rd slowest suit faster only than heavy frames and have the second lowest hp tanking only more than scouts ..This is not how it should be i can understand why logis are slower but they should have more HP.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 8239	Posted - 2015.03.23 17:50:00 - [20] - Quote To summarize, you want to buff speed, HP, fitting capacity, bandwidth ... and add a slot? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley

Darken-Sol BIG BAD W0LVES 1861	Posted - 2015.03.23 17:52:00 - [21] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: To summarize, you want to buff speed, HP, fitting capacity, bandwidth ... and add a slot? Who wouldnt? Crush them
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 367	Posted - 2015.03.23 18:36:00 - [22] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: To summarize, you want to buff speed, HP, fitting capacity, bandwidth ... and add a slot? No buff speed ..leave all the rest alone I dunno about the cal logi but I have no band with issues with gal amar and min logi Fitting is tight and it should be Logis don't need more ehp they are perfectly fine in that area nor do they need more slots A slight speed boost to be faster than assaults is all I think they need at least the 3 I run no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil
Michael Epic Horizons' Edge 725	Posted - 2015.03.23 19:08:00 - [23] - Quote All that says to me is you would like for CCP to nerf my gallente logi dropsuit....yeah, no thanks. Its perfect the way it is....if anything, give it a sidearm like the Amarr logi has! Michael Epic's "EPIC" Proposal to his girlfriend :D
RemingtonBeaver Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2098	Posted - 2015.03.24 00:55:00 - [24] - Quote ITT: Logis with no sense of subtlety. Unleash the BIMBOBOT!
Mad Syringe ReDust Inc. 611	Posted - 2015.03.24 13:50:00 - [25] - Quote I would be happy, if my basic and advanced min logi had 4 EQ slots, and if speed was higher to compensate for the lack of hp... So swap speed with assaults. A slight cpu pg adjustment on the basic and advanced logis would be needed, but not too much.
Gyn Wallace Ready to Play 312	Posted - 2015.03.24 16:48:00 - [26] - Quote Run Assaults, or scouts if you need two equipment slots. CCP isn't going to do anything for the logis until they see more people migrating away from playing logis. The Dust/Eve Isk Exchange Thread


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