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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3085
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Posted - 2015.03.20 17:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why? Rattati is going to reintroduce the Marauders and Enforcers, and any pilot that has a shred of hope for the tank battles of yore is praying for a return to the glory days of 10mil + ISK lost in 5 minutes.
Vehicles should be their own best counter, not AV, which hasn't been touched, still doing more damage than the tanks that have recently been worked on and improved.
I'd love to see explanations as to why AV shouldn't do so much damage.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3088
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:The only AV that's better than a tank, for killing a tank, are AV greandes and remote exposives (strapped to an LAV.)
A tank will down a tank about as fast as those... Though the AV is cheaper and less fun.
Voila snackbar car = 10k damage, instant death, no fun at all.
AV grenades = screaming voila snackbar, few thousand damage in 2 seconds. EZ mode, no fun.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3090
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:So you want to invulnerable when in a tank? And when ANTI VEHICLE is useless against vehicles... why should it exist?
Point out where I said invulnerable and that AV should be useless against vehicles.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3090
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Posted - 2015.03.20 18:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bahirae Serugiusu wrote:God do tankers ever stop complaining about AV?
80k 5mil SP suit vs 1mil ISK 60mil SP tank.
Why does that pittance cost of a suit do so much damage against a huge investment of a tank?
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3093
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Posted - 2015.03.20 19:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Bahirae Serugiusu wrote:God do tankers ever stop complaining about AV? 80k 5mil SP suit vs 1mil ISK 60mil SP tank. Why does that pittance cost of a suit do so much damage against a huge investment of a tank? Because a Militia suit can still kill a full proto bear. Get gud.
If the guy in PRO just stands there, yeah. Or has next to no HP and the guy in MLT finishes him off.
Stop using bad arguments.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3093
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Posted - 2015.03.20 20:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Bahirae Serugiusu wrote:God do tankers ever stop complaining about AV? 80k 5mil SP suit vs 1mil ISK 60mil SP tank. Why does that pittance cost of a suit do so much damage against a huge investment of a tank? Because Anti-Vehicle weapons are designed to destroy vehicles, not tickle them.
Why should one person hold so much power in their hands when my tank has a power supply the size of a heavy suit?
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3093
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Posted - 2015.03.20 20:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Joseph Ridgeson wrote:I don't understand why some tankers have so much nostalgia for "yeah, 10 million isk burned in 5 minutes!" Why the hell would you want a role, that is now pretty much symmetrical with Infantry, to be so freaking expensive?
Because tanks were more than worth the ISK and SP investment. Sounds like you have no clue as to the battles we used to have.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3093
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Posted - 2015.03.20 20:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
8213 wrote:I love when "tankers" complain about AV...
When 3-4 people are making it their sole effort to destroy you, it's NOT OP...
Blame teammates for not killing the AVers (as they are an easy kill), and don't get mad when 1/4th of the enemy team gains up on you
It's rarely 3-4 at a time. It's often one, launching EZ mode swarms that melt armor, and AV grenades that are pocket nuclear missile bombs.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3093
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Posted - 2015.03.20 20:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Thumb Green wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Bahirae Serugiusu wrote:God do tankers ever stop complaining about AV? 80k 5mil SP suit vs 1mil ISK 60mil SP tank. Why does that pittance cost of a suit do so much damage against a huge investment of a tank? Because Anti-Vehicle weapons are designed to destroy vehicles, not tickle them. Why should one person hold so much power in their hands when my tank has a power supply the size of a heavy suit? Because you're tank is completely immune to roughly 75% of the weapons in this game. That's 3/4th of the threats in this game you are immune to; the trade off is AV should be powerful. Don't like it? Let me do 100% damage with my SMG against tanks.
So the same complaint that's been bandied about for years, rifles can't damage tanks. Knives do 50% damage, AHMGs do 100%. I'd ask what more do you want, but I know it's probably at least 75% efficacy for all infantry weapons against vehicles.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3097
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Posted - 2015.03.21 15:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Why? Rattati is going to reintroduce the Marauders and Enforcers, and any pilot that has a shred of hope for the tank battles of yore is praying for a return to the glory days of 10mil + ISK lost in 5 minutes.
Vehicles should be their own best counter, not AV, which hasn't been touched, still doing more damage than the tanks that have recently been worked on and improved.
I'd love to see explanations as to why AV shouldn't do so much damage. i dont know what stuff you smoke but armor tanks are like a rolling fortress these days. I have both Av and armor tanks at max and i have a easier time destroying a tank with another tank then trying to blow up a perma hardened madrugar. And if you are complaining that 4 guys with forgeguns sitting on a roof then you should keep in mind that it took 4 players to stop you.
4 forge guns = alpha damage = dead tank. Bad argument
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3097
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Posted - 2015.03.21 15:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Golden Day wrote:I find it absurd that I have to run away from my slaying of infantry because the swarms already took out half of my armor!
Not even an argument, sounds like you've never been in a tank.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3097
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Posted - 2015.03.21 15:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
P14GU3 wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Bahirae Serugiusu wrote:God do tankers ever stop complaining about AV? 80k 5mil SP suit vs 1mil ISK 60mil SP tank. Why does that pittance cost of a suit do so much damage against a huge investment of a tank? You realize any competant AV fit takes 15-20m sp investment, while I can jump in a MLT tank with 0 SP investment and do practically the same thing, while also being immune to non-av.. Bad tanker is bad..
Where are you getting 15-20 mil from? I'd love to know this.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3097
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Posted - 2015.03.21 15:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
Outlaw OneZero wrote:AV is specifically designed to destroy vehicles, it should be very good at it.
Letting the game aim for you is not "very good." Nuke tipped missiles and baseballs make it exceedingly easy.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3097
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Posted - 2015.03.21 15:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:
So the same complaint that's been bandied about for years, rifles can't damage tanks. Knives do 50% damage, AHMGs do 100%. I'd ask what more do you want, but I know it's probably at least 75% efficacy for all infantry weapons against vehicles.
I'm not complaining about non-AV weapons not damaging tank, that part is fine; but you're the one that wants AV to be weak, and you got to trade something for that.
There's nothing left to trade. You took everything away from us, that's why 1.7, then 1.8 came around. It's also why we lost the Marauders.
You had tanks nerfed from 1.7 to 1.8 because we were able to make a few different fits; some against infantry, some against vehicles. That got nerfed due to smart fitting.
Rattati has FINALLY given something back to vehicles. Before that, it was take take take take take take away from vehicles and pilots. Don't you see? Echo FINALLY gave something back to us. It was nerf nerf nerf for years before Echo. If there's anything we could "give," we'd be right back at square one, with vehicles being useless.
Besides, if vehicles get made weaker to compensate for weaker AV, how has anything changed?
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3097
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Posted - 2015.03.21 15:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:Yea I have to agree with some other people.
If you are in a shield tank right now, you are getting REKT left and right. I for one love to smash shield tanks with my PLC. On the other hand, the Madrugar is something seriously powerful right now. The Blaster seems to be in a good place and so does the armour tank.
Even with a totally maxed out Allotek PLC, I cannot do enough damage to break the Madrugars I have been seeing on the map, not even close to be honest. Granted, the PLC is anti shield weaponry, but never before has my PLC anti armour damage seemed so impotent.
That's because we can fit a hardener now, and they're actually substantial.
Problem is, shield and armor are never balanced. One is always on top over the other. If they could get balanced, then we'd have some good variety.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3097
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Posted - 2015.03.21 16:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dementia Maniaclease wrote:
Or am I?...
Lol I'm going with this.
I'm seeing far, far more AV than tanks. Used to have 4-5 on both sides the first 2 or 3 days, now it's cooled down.
I keep tanks due to superior piloting in the face of AV. If some smiling joker like you comes around a corner and there's 2 Minmandos waiting for you, you're not surviving.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3097
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Posted - 2015.03.21 16:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:I personally love how tanks in this game are like BFRs in the first Planetside.
Anyone who tries to say otherwise is defending their "I WIN" button. The fact that you can have an asset that requires NO teamwork whatsoever that is more than a match for a whole squad is stupid. It's only fun for one side, and at that point it shouldn't exist.
Do I think Swarms are balanced right now? No. Swarms are cheesy easymode because they are fire-and-forget **** machines that require no player skill at all to use.
Do I think tanks should EVER be like Spkr seems to want them to be? **** no.
That would kill Dust deader than Legion would.
"More than a match for a whole squad."
Let's see..... One person with Packed Lai Dai does about ~5000 damage against unhardened armor. With two people, that's ~10,000, 3 people is ~15,000, etc.
No, your statement does not hold up against that. A single logi could put down a proxy mine field and very easily destroy a tank (solo).
And what on Earth are you talking about with this Do I think tanks should EVER be like Spkr seems to want them to be? line? Where have I said I want tanks to be invincible to anything but another tank? Point that out.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3097
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Posted - 2015.03.21 16:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
P14GU3 wrote:Dementia Maniaclease wrote:I've actually been faring well in a soma against av in fact earlier it took 3 av guys to pop my tank.. So , ... Quit yer griping!!! I have a hard time seeing how I am doing better with a MILITIA tank than people running the more expensive versions., I am not that good of a tank driver..
Or am I?... Speaker is pretty well known for being one of the worst tankers in the game...
LOLWUT
With what evidence do you simians make this claim?
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3097
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Posted - 2015.03.21 16:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
You mean to tell me that armor finally not being useless, after over a year of it, is gamebreaking?
Please, go to Call of Duty. It's about damn time armor was made viable again. Do I like how it's far superior to shield? No, but still, it's about damn time armor is in a good place again.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3097
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Posted - 2015.03.21 16:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
8213 wrote:AV nades are crazy OP, but what makes AV OP as a whole is the rendering issue. If I know where and what is shooting me, I'm very likely not to die.
What makes AV grenades insanely OP is the incredible amount of damage 3 separate objects that have to be thrown do so fast, all while having a homing warhead that makes aiming obsolete. That has nothing to do with rendering.
Prime example: Tonight I literally had 9/16 of the enemy team trying to AV my tank. It took them 20 minutes, but they finally got me. Now during that time, I had the option to go into my redline and recall at any moment; but as most tankers I get stubborn and still go for kills just to be a jerk.
More than half the enemy team against you? Next you're going to tell me that they had the objective.
When they popped me, I wasn't upset at them. As it was 9 of them. It was kind of funny seeing them jump out of LAVs like clowns at me, or a red mass of Commandos and heavies chasing me around a socket...
But I will tell you that I was upset with my teammates, because during this epic battle, they didn't take letters nor kill the AVers...
Oh what a surprise, you lost.
So, to wrap this up. Mr. Dead, please, please, please do us all a favor and stop being so bullheaded about your HAVs. The outcome for you is always the same; mockery, logic bombing, you portrayed as insane.
So I should bend on my defense of vehicles when we were finally given something after over a year of vehicles being useless and pilots being treated like second class citizens? No, I shall not waver in my defense of vehicles.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3097
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Posted - 2015.03.21 16:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
nelo kazuma wrote: abuse systems in place.
Yet it's perfectly fine when scouts throw REs 20ft in front of them and use that as their primary weapon.
You guys throw this "abuse" word around as if it was a bottle of water. You guys should check out what you do and how you do it before you accuse us of "abusing" anything.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3097
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Posted - 2015.03.21 16:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:Buddy, you know that double hardened madrugar with 2 reps is immune to any kind of AV while hardeners are on?
One hardener + 3 reps is also viable.
Immune? You must be going against MLT AV.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3097
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Posted - 2015.03.21 16:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:I was gonna say something, but there's nothing I can add to this thread to make it seem dumber.
It's like there was a built in self-destruct on the whole conversation.
You don't have anything substantial to add anyway. You never do.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
3098
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Posted - 2015.03.21 16:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:I was gonna say something, but there's nothing I can add to this thread to make it seem dumber.
It's like there was a built in self-destruct on the whole conversation. You don't have anything substantial to add anyway. You never do. Why should I have to? You do all the work for me, all I have to do is drop an occasional fact and watch you explode and demolish your own case. Thanks for the help. Couldn't have done it without you.
What fact? You're a spreadsheet warrior, you don't play the game. You don't have any facts because you don't know any through experience. You especially don't know anything about vehicles.
Maybe if you spent more time playing and less time deciding strategy on Google Docs, pilots will consider what you have to say.
Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
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