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DJINN Jecture
MANUFACTURERS OF DEATH
293
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Posted - 2015.03.22 18:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:
Ferroscales - ferroscale plates offer more HP and are cheaper to fit the shield extenders with zero drawback. This is a huge balance issue. Sure shields recharge on their own and Ferroscales do not, but in order to fit a proper shield tank you have to sacrifice slots for regulators and rechargers as necessary for an, on average, lower hp pool. Point being is a shield tanker must sacrifice just as many, If not more, slots for non hp mods as armor tankers do, therefore having a natural regen is a rather mute point. Ferroscales > extenders, simple as that. Perhaps consider a small speed reduction or increased capacity cost for ferros.
You are looking at it wrong. There is a difference between an active tank and a passive tank. A passive tank is RAW HP. An active tank has rechargers and regulators to make it rebuild quicker.
The Ferroscale falls under the Passive tanking mode as do Shield Extenders.
Reactive Plating and Rechargers, Regulators fall under the Active tanking mode and as such your comparison is flawed.
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DJINN Jecture
MANUFACTURERS OF DEATH
294
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Posted - 2015.03.22 18:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:DJINN Jecture wrote:Boot Booter wrote:
Ferroscales - ferroscale plates offer more HP and are cheaper to fit the shield extenders with zero drawback. This is a huge balance issue. Sure shields recharge on their own and Ferroscales do not, but in order to fit a proper shield tank you have to sacrifice slots for regulators and rechargers as necessary for an, on average, lower hp pool. Point being is a shield tanker must sacrifice just as many, If not more, slots for non hp mods as armor tankers do, therefore having a natural regen is a rather mute point. Ferroscales > extenders, simple as that. Perhaps consider a small speed reduction or increased capacity cost for ferros.
You are looking at it wrong. There is a difference between an active tank and a passive tank. A passive tank is RAW HP. An active tank has rechargers and regulators to make it rebuild quicker. The Ferroscale falls under the Passive tanking mode as do Shield Extenders. Reactive Plating and Rechargers, Regulators fall under the Active tanking mode and as such your comparison is flawed. Well you can call it what you want and perhaps you are right. Doesn't change my opinion that ferroscales are better than shield extenders in a simple raw comparison. More HP, easier to fit. Couple this with the clunky feel of shield delays and recharging (damage threshold is part of this) and the result, in my humble opinion, is part of the reason armor is more competitive than shields.
Look at the cost for active modules as I mentioned previously, thats where the comparison can gain traction if there is any, if a person fits feros they need reps, so armor repair or the Reactive plating, otherwise all that equals the armor tank you describe is a shield tank no rechargers or regulators, they cannot be compared. A+B does not equal C+C.
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DJINN Jecture
MANUFACTURERS OF DEATH
294
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Posted - 2015.03.22 18:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
The damage threshold is another matter entirely, and for someone who runs both armor and shield as well as bottle tanked suits I can say without a doubt that some of what you say regarding damage threshold strikes a chord but I would be concerned that setting it too high would result in other balance issues, no more than 10 hp threshold would be ok.
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DJINN Jecture
MANUFACTURERS OF DEATH
296
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Posted - 2015.03.23 14:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:DJINN Jecture wrote:The damage threshold is another matter entirely, and for someone who runs both armor and shield as well as bottle tanked suits I can say without a doubt that some of what you say regarding damage threshold strikes a chord but I would be concerned that setting it too high would result in other balance issues, no more than 10 hp threshold would be ok.
EDIT: No, just checked some numbers and remembered why that is there, it prevents Shields from being OP. Could you elaborate on these numbers you checked? I was recently thinking of the threshold being like 5 or less. Something so that jumps from a meter too high or an SMG round from 80 meters doesn't completely reset your delays. I'll try to do some controlled tests in actual game play of scenarios which annoy me when I'm shield tanking. Hopefully I can find a reasonable threshold level. Anyway you seem to know your stuff, I'd like to tease ideas out of you. I'm just here stating my opinion (armor > shields) and my ideas. I honestly just want balance.
The Caldari are not the only ones who shield tank, so this doesn't only affect them. I counted the number ofsuits I personally can shield tank with and came up with a very large number even without caldari being in the picture. That said those suits can dual tank or armor tank as well. The problem comes in when a suit is dual tanked, or armor tanked with a regulator to improve his shield regen. It works out to nigh impossible to hurt them and kill them... do you want to run around a corner into a caldari assault that your first bullet only does 9.5 damage but the rep of the shields is such that he gains back 1/3 of them per recharge cycle?
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DJINN Jecture
MANUFACTURERS OF DEATH
296
|
Posted - 2015.03.23 14:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Boot Booter wrote:DJINN Jecture wrote:Boot Booter wrote:DJINN Jecture wrote:Boot Booter wrote:
Ferroscales - ferroscale plates offer more HP and are cheaper to fit the shield extenders with zero drawback. This is a huge balance issue. Sure shields recharge on their own and Ferroscales do not, but in order to fit a proper shield tank you have to sacrifice slots for regulators and rechargers as necessary for an, on average, lower hp pool. Point being is a shield tanker must sacrifice just as many, If not more, slots for non hp mods as armor tankers do, therefore having a natural regen is a rather mute point. Ferroscales > extenders, simple as that. Perhaps consider a small speed reduction or increased capacity cost for ferros.
You are looking at it wrong. There is a difference between an active tank and a passive tank. A passive tank is RAW HP. An active tank has rechargers and regulators to make it rebuild quicker. The Ferroscale falls under the Passive tanking mode as do Shield Extenders. Reactive Plating and Rechargers, Regulators fall under the Active tanking mode and as such your comparison is flawed. Well you can call it what you want and perhaps you are right. Doesn't change my opinion that ferroscales are better than shield extenders in a simple raw comparison. More HP, easier to fit. Couple this with the clunky feel of shield delays and recharging (damage threshold is part of this) and the result, in my humble opinion, is part of the reason armor is more competitive than shields. Look at the cost for active modules as I mentioned previously, thats where the comparison can gain traction if there is any, if a person fits feros they need reps, so armor repair or the Reactive plating, otherwise all that equals the armor tank you describe is a shield tank no rechargers or regulators, they cannot be compared. A+B does not equal C+C. Yep I totally get what you are saying however how does this add up when you start considering the rep tool and rep hives? Do you consider armor and shields to be balanced?
It has been suggested that we get a shield rep tool rather than more modification to caldari class suits as this would be more balanced (not really sure what to make of this yet but I have hopes it would be a good addition depending on how its used).
Edit: Just because I run out of shields doesn't mean I am dead, the reps are a good buffer even for a shield tanked caldari.
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