DUST Search - Say No to skill point inflation!

Max Craeus wrote:

Cantus wrote:

Hacking is contributing. Also, I saw that being present doesn't earn my any SP. I joined a match that ended only 1 minute after I first spawned. I only earned minimal ISK while getting absolutely no SP at all (which is fair).

It's not "just" hacking, it's situational. If you're in an Ambush match, the objective is to kill the other players, not hack their stuff. Sure, hacking a gun emplacement could give your side a benefit -- IF you then use it to actually kill the enemy with, but then you're being rewarded for doing your job -- killing the enemy -- and not for simply hacking gear.

In a Skirmish match, things are a little bit more strange... Killing defenders is just a means to the goal -- blowing up/taking control of the strategic points. But often I see people who are doing nothing BUT trying to get points by killing defenders, or hacking some gun emplacement on the wrong side of the map, that no one is actually going to use to kill targets. The flip side is more difficult to sense, though. A defender doing his job right shouldn't have to re-hack a strategic point, so... do they get points for killing people only in the vicinity of the strategic point? Only if they're actively caught in the act of hacking a point? It definitely gets fuzzy there.

Maybe we just don't worry about it -- for now, you get XP for kills, assists, hacks, just as it is. Maybe gameplay will be emergent -- those people who need a lot of SPs but have a reputation for not actually "winning" maybe suffer from not getting offered contracts... But if those contracts are only limiting (or supplying) the ISK part of the equation, it seems like we might be better considering a reward mechanism that really encourages players to attempt to achieve the mission goals, rather than just "farming SP".

...Max

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[Veteran_Alistir Straylight] 0	Posted - 2012.06.04 18:14:00 - [31] - Quote Max Craeus wrote: Cantus wrote: Hacking is contributing. Also, I saw that being present doesn't earn my any SP. I joined a match that ended only 1 minute after I first spawned. I only earned minimal ISK while getting absolutely no SP at all (which is fair). It's not "just" hacking, it's situational. If you're in an Ambush match, the objective is to kill the other players, not hack their stuff. Sure, hacking a gun emplacement could give your side a benefit -- IF you then use it to actually kill the enemy with, but then you're being rewarded for doing your job -- killing the enemy -- and not for simply hacking gear. In a Skirmish match, things are a little bit more strange... Killing defenders is just a means to the goal -- blowing up/taking control of the strategic points. But often I see people who are doing nothing BUT trying to get points by killing defenders, or hacking some gun emplacement on the wrong side of the map, that no one is actually going to use to kill targets. The flip side is more difficult to sense, though. A defender doing his job right shouldn't have to re-hack a strategic point, so... do they get points for killing people only in the vicinity of the strategic point? Only if they're actively caught in the act of hacking a point? It definitely gets fuzzy there. Maybe we just don't worry about it -- for now, you get XP for kills, assists, hacks, just as it is. Maybe gameplay will be emergent -- those people who need a lot of SPs but have a reputation for not actually "winning" maybe suffer from not getting offered contracts... But if those contracts are only limiting (or supplying) the ISK part of the equation, it seems like we might be better considering a reward mechanism that really encourages players to attempt to achieve the mission goals, rather than just "farming SP". ...Max I would argue that hacking is contributing in almost all instances. The very first thing I do in a Skirmish is move into enemy territory and start hacking things out from under them. Taking a spawn behind enemy lines allows my team to flank, taking a turret removes a defensive structure that can be used against me, taking a supply depot allows me to continue guerrilla warfare. Anything I take they have to spend time to recover and can not be used against me until they do.
[Veteran_Kiradien] 0	Posted - 2012.06.05 14:03:00 - [32] - Quote Cobalt Lavitz wrote: The exponential sp inflation is an illusion. Nothing to see here, move along. The guys getting more sp need that sp because their stuff costs exponentially more than the lowbies. The lowbies can easily catch up in no time to a competitive level (3-4) for several skills while that vet is spending huge sp just trying to get a V. The primary issue is, the newer players are gaining less and less experience as the older players gain more and more, newer players cannot stay alive long enough to kill when they are killed before the screen fades from black. There are no functions to discourage Spawn Camping, Nnothing shapes a path to allow them to ever reach enough points to acquire enough points to compete against certain situations - not within time to keep the game interesting. In some games, the spawn camping and instant death have been so bad that some of the other players ended the match with only 1000-2000 Skillpoints through no fault of their own; Further increasing the inflation of high SP players. Hunter Cazaderon wrote: People asking for SP reduction will be the first to cry out loud later on... I'm sorry but; did you even read the reason for this topic? The issue is not that Skillpoint gains are too high, but that the difference is too high. That is not going to change with the multipier - Instead of being 40,000 and 400,000 it will just be 10,000 and 100,000; The gap remains massive - and significantly worse for the new players - Though in one of my last games the numbers I heared were closer to 4,000 and 600,000, however that is truly an eratic set to use. Doctor Spankit wrote: Gamers will always find a way to get an advantage. Its called being good at the game, and understanding how the system works. Just something to keep in mind.... this isn't like other games, as this ground breaking, never tried before experiment is going to have 100's of thousand of players all hitting the game at the same time. Which... if you think about it... is fair.... because anyone joining the game later on.... well... the game is free, so its not like its players who have bee playing a long time's fault for picking up a free game before you. To the first point - That is the point of the game, to gain an advantage, my whole post is to reduce opportunity for overwhelming advantage - As it stands now, overwhelming advantage is truly abundant. To the second point - people have lives, it does not always allow them to do what they want when they want. Be it work, school, or relationships; life has to take priority over games, but games cannot survive without new blood. New players should start at a disadvantage as they do - I agree! However, there's starting in the Flame's of hell, digging your way out, and there's starting in a sealed vat of plasma - The current game dynamic is akin to the vat of plasma. iwillrock yourworld wrote: And as in EVE the max level to everything is 5. New players just need to focus and especialize, and in no time they will be on par with more seasoned players. And that is the beauty of EVE - sadly it has not transferred to DUST - Skillpoints are earned by killing, an understandable and desirable feature in this style of game - However, when new players join the game and are pounded so far into the ground, earning a total of 5 kills for the entire TEAM, that is an issue. Negligable skill points are earned and time is wasted. Gaining enough points to specialize becomes impossible and attempting to compete begins to feel redundant. Dust will need new players, even long after it's release - Games either grow and thrive, or shrivel and die. Whilst I would personally love to be able to earn an easy 450k skill points per match, I would truly prefer it if the game was capable of driving a constant stream of interested players.
[Veteran_Brian Boyer] 0	Posted - 2012.06.06 14:23:00 - [33] - Quote One idea I have had, is that I like the idea of adding a skill point bonus and an isk bonus proportionate to the level of kill. Eve skill development is cool for that type of game, but for FPS, their should be more instant gratification, but this prevents the idea of noob farming for skill points. So say I kill a guy with 400,000 skill points, I would get 400 skill point bonus but if I kill a guy worth 4,000,000 skill points I get a 4000 skill point bonus. So I would have to kill 10 noobs vice someone of equal value to get the same value for my time. Also you can set it up where a kill of 4,000,000 is 4000 and I was able to get 25% of damage I would get 25% of the bonus in this case 1,000 skill point bonus. Also the same for isk and the JITA market value of his dropsuit and mods. So if your kill is wearing 4,000,000 isk of gear then you get 4,000 bonus isk or if you kill a 400,000 isk player you get 400. Now I used 10% but I'm sure the devs would have a better mathematical number and I'm sure the economist will have their own ideas on what the number should be, but I think this is a fairer system.
[Veteran_Rhapsodyy] 0	Posted - 2012.06.06 15:46:00 - [34] - Quote Ignatius Crumwald wrote: Right now SP is x4. Also there is an exponential drop off in points earned in successive matches Without x4 you can start earning as low as 2000-6000 per match - even in high kill 30-0 games the most you'll see is 8000. And correct me if im wrong but there is diminishing returns on SP earnt anyway?
[Veteran_Xocoyol Zaraoul] 0	Posted - 2012.06.06 17:30:00 - [35] - Quote Rhapsodyy wrote: And correct me if im wrong but there is diminishing returns on SP earnt anyway? Yes, and it really starts to show after a day of solid playing.


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