DUST Search - Discussion: Shield vs Armor

Reign Omega wrote:

Leadfoot10 wrote:

Please stop insulting people.

The reason people "swing hard until they fall" is because skirm/dom are games where you have to do that to win.

If I wanted to sit back and pick people off -- and lose -- I'd be a sniper.

You are no more intelligent or a thinking man's player than me, so please stop with the banter suggesting otherwise.

This game is about taking and holding points. Sitting back and picking people off at distance, but jumping behind cover everytime you take enemy fire, is a marginal role at best -- and that's precisely how you see them used.

Shield tanks simply don't have enough HP to do take/hold points effectively. Damage mods in highs also add to this challenge.

It's just that simple, IMO.

I was no more suggesting that I am better than anyone, nor was I labeling you or anyone else as unintelligent. Please try not to misread. What I was suggesting however, was that players tend to group towards playstyles that are more general purpose and forgiving rather than ones that take time to understand and that aren't necessarily more rewarding upon understanding. Armor tanked suits are brawlers suits, and Dust tends to favor brawlers over thinkers in most cases. It's in no way meant as an insult, it's a simple truth gained from 3 years of observation.


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Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3540	Posted - 2015.03.17 18:46:00 - [1] - Quote Kirk, You guys are hardly the only ones that have figured out to run shields. Most people simply prefer the better performance of armor. Look around. How many people do you think are using armor versus shields? How do you explain that without unnecessarily insulting their intelligence or playstyles?
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3540	Posted - 2015.03.17 18:52:00 - [2] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Iv been shield tanking since i started playing Dust specificly caldari suits and teck. There is a few things about shield tanking iv learned 1. If your engaging your enimy head on your doing it wrong. (Allways attack frohpthe flank unless your wepon outranges thiers) 2. It's not about stacking extenders , regulators are key here on my Cko suits i stack complex regulators and get my delay down to1.6 seconds on my assaults and 1.2 on my logies (all caldari) also enegisers do wonders 90+ hp per second 3. cover is your friend (especially when you get that recharge dely down to less than 2 seconds and that regen up to 90+ on a 400+ shielded assault suit. Most folks who claim shield tanking is garbage are doing it wrong, any one who puts armour on a Caldari suit is doing it wrong. 1. Any suit will be dominant if you only engage against targets that don't see you. 2. Regulators/rechargers don't work if you're taking damage or dead before the modules start to work 3. Any suit will die if you don't use cover effectively. I know how to shield tank. The problem is it sucks in comparison to plates, and shields some type of balance adjustment, IMO. It's this fundamental imbalance that cascades to the weapons and why we find a preponderance of anti-armor weapons, as well. I would fix it with increasing HP of shields, or reducing their fitting cost, or both. Because, as it is, armor is dominant, and it only takes a quick glance at your team and opponent to figure it out. All of the above IMO, of course.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3541	Posted - 2015.03.17 19:01:00 - [3] - Quote Please stop insulting people. The reason people "swing hard until they fall" is because skirm/dom are games where you have to do that to win. If I wanted to sit back and pick people off -- and lose -- I'd be a sniper. You are no more intelligent or a thinking man's player than me, so please stop with the banter suggesting otherwise. This game is about taking and holding points. Sitting back and picking people off at distance, but jumping behind cover everytime you take enemy fire is a marginal role at best -- and that's precisely how you see them used. Shield tanks simply don't have enough HP to do take/hold points effectively. Damage mods in highs also add to this challenge. It's just that simple, IMO.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3543	Posted - 2015.03.17 19:35:00 - [4] - Quote Reign Omega wrote: Leadfoot10 wrote: Please stop insulting people. The reason people "swing hard until they fall" is because skirm/dom are games where you have to do that to win. If I wanted to sit back and pick people off -- and lose -- I'd be a sniper. You are no more intelligent or a thinking man's player than me, so please stop with the banter suggesting otherwise. This game is about taking and holding points. Sitting back and picking people off at distance, but jumping behind cover everytime you take enemy fire, is a marginal role at best -- and that's precisely how you see them used. Shield tanks simply don't have enough HP to do take/hold points effectively. Damage mods in highs also add to this challenge. It's just that simple, IMO. I was no more suggesting that I am better than anyone, nor was I labeling you or anyone else as unintelligent. Please try not to misread. What I was suggesting however, was that players tend to group towards playstyles that are more general purpose and forgiving rather than ones that take time to understand and that aren't necessarily more rewarding upon understanding. Armor tanked suits are brawlers suits, and Dust tends to favor brawlers over thinkers in most cases. It's in no way meant as an insult, it's a simple truth gained from 3 years of observation. You should consider substituting "attacks at distance" for "thinkers", lest others get the same idea. It takes no more thinking to run or fit one suit than it does the other.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3544	Posted - 2015.03.17 19:43:00 - [5] - Quote Reign Omega wrote: I personally think shield suits require more finesse and tactical awareness to run competitively and properly and don't necessarily give appropriate returns for the extra work. That is the very definition of UP.... ...although I substituted "appropriate" for "exponential" from your quote.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3544	Posted - 2015.03.17 19:45:00 - [6] - Quote I do now. I was dead on except for what you're running now -- after, apparently, you drew the same conclusion as me and the other 3/4 of the vets around here. Armor>Shields. Thanks.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3545	Posted - 2015.03.17 19:56:00 - [7] - Quote Cypher Nil wrote: Saying that it takes more intelligence/skill/dedication to run shields is a reflection of compensating for shields being WORSE then armour. This statement has nothing to do with looking down at other players. If I say that being a doctor takes intelligence/skill/dedication that doesn't mean everyone who's not a doctor is stupid. your reading into something that isn't there. honestly given the stat's of armour compared to shields the clever thing is to go armour. shields require tactict's to compensate for lower HP and only offer a benefit of taking less damage from long ranged designed weapons. You're right. These were terms of endearment: "Most folks who claim shield tanking is garbage are doing it wrong" "The Caldari need a guide as well and you, Mexx and four others are the ONLY people I have seen in game that actually know how to fit and play as shields. " "Dust players as I have seen tend to try and fit the square peg in the round hole" As if regulators/rechargers and using cover are some secret only revealed after 4 years of graduate school and residency....
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3545	Posted - 2015.03.17 20:03:00 - [8] - Quote You could not be more dead on accurate & have done so with no disparaging remarks (intended or unintended). Well done.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3547	Posted - 2015.03.17 22:36:00 - [9] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: P.P.S. Energizers and Rechargers take way too much CPU. That is a very good idea, I think.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3547	Posted - 2015.03.17 22:44:00 - [10] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: CCP is incapable of balance and their love of armor is undeniable. Therefore the following will always remain true in Dust: Armor > Shields. The above was not even close to always true, and I truly believe that CCP wants balance in this game. I'm sorry if you disagree. Tell me, Islare, were you around during the reign of Cal Logis and AR514? Listen, I don't think anyone is arguing that shields are better than armor, but to say that CCP wants it one way and it has never been and will never be another is both untrue and unfair. IMO, of course. :)