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Francois Sanchez
Prima Gallicus
338
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Posted - 2015.03.17 11:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
Dear Rattati, You asked for numbers about dropships so here they are. This proposition is far to be perfect but I think it could be a good base.
First we need to know what's wrong with ADS atm. It's pretty simple they lack fitting capacity. Currently a python with max skills can't make a good fit with STD stuff and gunners without throwing in at least one ADV PG upgrade (and with the rounds up a PRO PG upgrade may be required). Right now, the only way for a python to fight near one swarmer is to have 2 shield hardeners and 1 shield extender. Putting those modules at basic level already eats 75% of your PG, it's way too much. There is a fundamental problem of PG cost for shield modules, and moreover there isn't any skill to reduce it. Sadly you probably can't lower the PG requirements without making the gunnlogi OP so pythons need a PG buff (the gal ADS needs one too).
Why not giving the tanks treatment to dropships? So having one variant with side turrets that can't be removed and a dramatical resource increase, and another variant without side turrets and less PG and CPU. Also ADS need more modules. Using a PG/CPU upgrade is mandatory atm and eats 25% of your modules.
I didn't make things for ADV and PRO stuff yet, it's already complicated to make something balanced at STD level.
Here is the proposition in a spreadsheet : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jlJ6PBozl_KKXF2H2R4tz1QmmY3HgA_GT8Uh2q1wWHw/edit?usp=sharing
I spent lot of time trying to balance Solo ADS vs ADS with gunners, in the end I've chosen to apply the resource difference of the HAVs
Any constructive comments are welcome :) |
Francois Sanchez
Prima Gallicus
339
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 12:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
I haven't tested those numbers with full HP mods, I've tested them with balanced fits (good regen, hardener, decent tank). I'm gonna test HP tanking
EDIT : well, I will test when protofits accept to work |
Francois Sanchez
Prima Gallicus
339
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 13:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Good catch, I had based the model on what had been done for tanks but forgot the base HP nerf, I'm gonna add that |
Francois Sanchez
Prima Gallicus
341
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 13:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Thanks for taking the time to come up with actual numbers for suggestions. I know it takes a lot of effort to do so.
Unfortunately I'm going to ask whether we can take the discussion one step back from the solution and discuss the problem, because I'm not quite sure what the problem is. Are ADS inefficient right now? Do they not perform a certain role they should be filling? What are the goals of this discussion?
I think both ADS are rather ok regarding their survivability. As long as you AB away from harm quickly enough there's a good chance you'll survive any single source of AV. Trouble starts when AV covers the whole map or there're multiple sources of AV in one place. But that's kind of fair, I guess.
The Python specifically I think is doing what it's supposed to quite well. It mops up non-AV infantry without cover with ease. I assume it lost it's teeth against HAVs after the recent changes though. Should this change? The Incubus isn't in a good place because neither small railguns nor small blasters are useful right now. Small railguns still hurt other DS very badly, but they don't kill HAVs like they used to. Should they be better at this? Small blasters need a different direction. The "bullet spray"-design doesn't seem to work well. Would a blaster with 70 m optimal and 90 m effective range, low dispersion (~2 m diameter at 90 m) and no increase or decrease of dispersion with some 600 DPS be suitable for ADS operation? A fine bonus would be a heat reduction, as it benefits both rails and blasters.
Anyway, what's the mission statement for this suggestion?
To me (and also from what I've seen in many comments) ADS don't work so fine. Yes they can afterburner away, but they can't stay in front of one guy with AV, they can shoot once and then they have to fly away. They should at least have the possibility to fire 2 or 3 times before flying away. Right now a single guy with good AV can deny the access to the dropship within 100 meters by himself, and I know what I'm talking about as I was running AV before being a pilot.
Also there are some incoherencies when you try to fit your dropship and I'd like to sort them out without heavily modifying modules and skills applied to them (because the problem comes from there). |
Francois Sanchez
Prima Gallicus
342
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 13:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Francois Sanchez wrote:Right now a single guy with good AV can deny the access to the dropship within 100 meters by himself, and I know what I'm talking about as I was running AV before being a pilot. I guess this is where our difference in opinion is situated then. I think the situation as described above is ok to me as a pilot. He has the counter to my role, he gets to deny me. If you don't think so I will accept your opinion, but I won't share it.
I also think the AV guy should kinda deny the dropship, but the dropship should have the chance to jump in and shoot at the guy. But well I understand your point of view and it' completely legit Also I forgot to say those changes are there to give the abilty to the pilot to have gunners without screwing up the rest of the fit |
Francois Sanchez
Prima Gallicus
342
|
Posted - 2015.03.17 15:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
I just came out of a game and I tried to hunt vehicles using incubus with rail turret. That was useless... Against shield tanks the overheat was giving them the time to regen. How much CPU and PG does a heat sink cost? I would like to check if it's possible to fit one on the Incubus without screwing up the fit. Or maybe changing the Incubus bonus? Spread reduction for small blasters and heat reduction for rail turrets? |
Francois Sanchez
Prima Gallicus
343
|
Posted - 2015.03.18 09:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
a brackers wrote:I like your suggested numbers. I am just wondering how you came up with them. I have done a similar thing to what you have done, but my pg and cpu values were much lower. Here are my numbers
They're indeed very different. I will post my reasoning here in a few hours (right now I have to go) but globally I wanted the dropship to be able to fit all its slots with STD stuff without resource mods with max skills. Then for the solo ADS I applied the same CPU/PG difference than what they did for tanks |
Francois Sanchez
Prima Gallicus
348
|
Posted - 2015.03.20 14:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Just briniging this back so that Rattati see this |
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