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To Rattati: small buff for ADS

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Alena Ventrallis Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 2738	Posted - 2015.03.17 07:33:00 - [1] - Quote I feel like echo has done wonders for tanking. There are a few things that need tweaking groundside, but overall It feels like tanking is viable and fun again. I have lots of active modules to choose from, and once small blaster dispersion is fixed I will have a great way to deal with infantry and assist me with vehicle kills. Now I wish to turn the attention to ADS. I feel like ADS have been bland for awhile, even before the ROF nerf. Now I want ADS to be buffed, but the process should be slow so we don't have a 1.7 tank situation on our hands. As to the buff, it is simple: more PG. Currently, on almost all Python and a good amount of Incubus fits, I see people fitting a PG upgrade on their ADS. This is problematic, especially considering the ADS has only 4 module slots to work with. Some math, all calculations assuming max skills. Python A Python has 810 PG at base. An enhanced heavy shield extender has a PG cost of 419. This is a little over half the PG of the vehicle, about 51% of it. An XT-1 missile launcher has a PG usage of 138, meaning we have 253 PG to fill 3 more slots, assuming we don't want to have gunners. A complex afterburner leaves us with 85 PG and two empty module slots. We don't even have enough PG to fit a vehicle shield regulator in the only low slot, and that's with an empty high slot. So we have a Python with 1. ADV heavy extender 2. PRO afterburner 3. Empty high slot 4. Empty low slot 5. PRO front turret. 6.Empty turret slot 7.Empty turret slot I will post this fit in the Links section of this post. As you can see, I have barely enough PG to fit 3 slots, requiring a PG upgrade in order to fit anything in the high barring a scanner. The Python has a total of 4 empty slots including the side gunners, and has only 85 PG left to play with. And the Incubus doesn't fair much better. Incubus Incubus has 1055 PG base. An enhanced 120mm plate takes 504 PG at max skills, which is almost exactly half of the Incubus PG allotment. Add a complex afterburner, we are left with 383 PG left. Fit a proto turret, I'll say XT-1 again because blasters aren't real useful and rails are very unwieldy save when engaging vehicles. We are left with 245 PG. Remember, we have only fitted one turret; the side guns are empty. We can fit a proto light armor repair, which leaves 50 PG to play with. To recap, we have 1. PRO afterburner 2. ADV 120mm plate 3. PRO light repairer 4. empty low slot 5. PRO front turret 6. empty turret slot 7. empty turret slot I will post this fit in the Links section. That's 3 empty slots including gunner seats, with not enough PG to even fit a regulator which the Incubus doesn't even need. Remember, these numbers all assume max skills; lower SP characters would likely be unable to fit even this. Proposition I believe having tiered DS/ADS like we have tiered tanks would be a good solution to the problem. We can have better fitting with the same slots and pay ISK for it. If this won't happen or in the interim until it does, a simple PG increase on both the Python and Incubus would do wonders to help expand the possible fits on the ships. I would recommend giving the Python 1050 PG, and giving the Incubus 1250 PG. This allows a single PRO front turret and all advanced modules with a small amount of wiggle room, assuming max skills. Having a gunner would require sacrifice, likely in the form of dropping a module for a PG upgrade. I will show two possible fits assuming you implement my proposed PG increases. Note: The Python will be unable to fit an advanced shield regulator due to regulators having high PG usage. I believe this is a problem with shield regulators costing too much PG rather than the Python having too little, and I hesitate to give the Python more PG than I proposed lest it become objectively better than the Incubus. I would recommend a steep drop in regulator PG usage in order to allow the fit I described for the Python. The PG the Python would need to fit an ADV regulator would be 1190. Links Python fit current Incubus fit current Python possible fit proposed (Note: does not have a regulator fit, protofits isn't updated to include them yet.) Incubus possible fit proposed Spreadsheet of PG changes Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
DarthJT5 Random Gunz 332	Posted - 2015.03.17 14:50:00 - [2] - Quote Again, I'll just leave this here Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta. Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year. The awnser is always XT missiles....
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3198	Posted - 2015.03.17 17:08:00 - [3] - Quote I disagree. The fitting seems fine on them. For solo work, you really don't need any fitting skills for they Python to make competitive fits, though you do need some armor fitting for the Incubus. If you want to add side turrets, then you'll need more fitting skills. It's possible to fit my former favorite fit (3k passive shield Python w/ AB) with XT primary turret and AT side turret while only needing to downgrade to an ADV AB (not a bad trade). I also have a dual ST turret XT main for the Incubus for transporting infantry plus giving support (though no one uses ADSs for transport like that, but that's beside the point). So ADSs are competitive with little SP in fitting and much more variable when actually investing in fitting, I really don't see the point of increasing the fitting. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1935	Posted - 2015.03.17 19:11:00 - [4] - Quote DarthJT5 wrote: Again, I'll just leave this here And again you have failed to realize the fact that if ADS were actually balanced and survivable without heavy mods, we wouldn't need to fit them. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
DarthJT5 Random Gunz 333	Posted - 2015.03.17 19:44:00 - [5] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: DarthJT5 wrote: Again, I'll just leave this here And again you have failed to realize the fact that if ADS were actually balanced and survivable without heavy mods, we wouldn't need to fit them. So, what your saying is, you want the ADS to be able to survive WITHOUT mods? What happens when we DO put on mods then? We become unstoppable? That's not a good line of thinking, everything in the game should require good modules to do good.... Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta. Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year. The awnser is always XT missiles....
Godin Thekiller Negative-Feedback. Negative-Feedback 2982	Posted - 2015.03.17 20:09:00 - [6] - Quote DarthJT5 wrote: Sir Dukey wrote: DarthJT5 wrote: Again, I'll just leave this here And again you have failed to realize the fact that if ADS were actually balanced and survivable without heavy mods, we wouldn't need to fit them. So, what your saying is, you want the ADS to be able to survive WITHOUT mods? What happens when we DO put on mods then? We become unstoppable? That's not a good line of thinking, everything in the game should require good modules to do good.... I think he's saying that ADS's should be fitting light modules, not heavy ones, which makes sense. I personally think that all DS's needs pretty much everything looked at them. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3202	Posted - 2015.03.17 20:49:00 - [7] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: DarthJT5 wrote: Sir Dukey wrote: DarthJT5 wrote: Again, I'll just leave this here And again you have failed to realize the fact that if ADS were actually balanced and survivable without heavy mods, we wouldn't need to fit them. So, what your saying is, you want the ADS to be able to survive WITHOUT mods? What happens when we DO put on mods then? We become unstoppable? That's not a good line of thinking, everything in the game should require good modules to do good.... I think he's saying that ADS's should be fitting light modules, not heavy ones, which makes sense. I personally think that all DS's needs pretty much everything looked at them. No. What he's saying is we need to fit heavy mods, not light mods. You need 3 complex light extenders to get any sort of respectable tank (2.9k), but compared to one complex heavy extended, you're saving little PG (100), using triple the CPU (600 vs 250) and slots (3 vs 1), and only gaining about 75 hp. (Values are from memory and approximated) It shouldn't matter what size mods we use just so that the end result isn't OP or gimped. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Alena Ventrallis Ahrendee Inc. Negative-Feedback 2742	Posted - 2015.03.17 22:36:00 - [8] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: DarthJT5 wrote: Sir Dukey wrote: DarthJT5 wrote: Again, I'll just leave this here And again you have failed to realize the fact that if ADS were actually balanced and survivable without heavy mods, we wouldn't need to fit them. So, what your saying is, you want the ADS to be able to survive WITHOUT mods? What happens when we DO put on mods then? We become unstoppable? That's not a good line of thinking, everything in the game should require good modules to do good.... I think he's saying that ADS's should be fitting light modules, not heavy ones, which makes sense. I personally think that all DS's needs pretty much everything looked at them. Then ADS need a decent health buff and fitting nerf. If I need heavy mods to be competitive, then I should have space to fit them. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
a brackers Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 94	Posted - 2015.03.17 22:43:00 - [9] - Quote I've created a large post with lots of numbers where I did exactly what CCP did for tanks to all types of dropships (looked at how much pg and cpu each bit of equipment uses and based the pg and cpu values off them) It is here Proto dropship pilot The sandbox shooter
Grimmiers 819	Posted - 2015.03.17 22:49:00 - [10] - Quote I think light modules need looking at. We already know armor plate speed reduction is pretty wacky and I'd like to see a return of passive hardeners and shield rechargers. I see a lot of incubi with basic 120mm 2 light repairs and a turret of their choice. It's hard to see a use for 600 extra armor on a light plate when most av weapons are doing around 1.5~2k alpha damage. Just today I fit a grimnes with 2 hardeners, heavy armor repair, and a pg upgrade which was pretty survivable while being faster than if I tried fitting plates (std dropships are sluggish enough as it is). My blueberries spawning in kept getting shot out of my dropship though so I did more harm than good.



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