idk why ppl are against missiles being the shotgun out of the 3 av turret i mean if we can have shotty weapons why not shotty av?

reason why i consider it to be a shotty av is because you kinda need to be in close to med range and beside using all your your missile one 1 go is a double edge sword if the other tank reacts fast enough and activates hardners your there running away shooting 2 per panic reload

Even tho i do favor your idea idk it just seems like turning missiles into a harder hitting blaster imo but thats just me.

Tbh as sad as it is i just realize something here, tanks are use to kill other tanks in the form of av , all other tanks turrets are av cept for small blasters so there really is no point in a tank vs infantry anymore is there? i mean a tank can get lucky killing a bit of ppl here and there but by the end of the match a proto suit is gonna get more kills than a tank vs infantry...i think i just made myself sad

On the reload time, when would you have the missiles "start" reloading? 2 seconds? 3? That may be something you want to add to the spreadsheet.

Also, your total ammo count from Delta on the missiles is wrong. It used to be 150 ish, and honestly if it's going to have such lower damage then it's going to need like 250-300 missiles so we don't have to go back to the redline every 2 minutes.

What do you think about keeping the damage the same, but knocking down magazine size to something like 10 or 8? Having 320 damage direct would make hitting infantry something they don't even have to worry about. Right now, or, at least before the RoF nerf, if some forge gunner is sniping me and I figure out where he is, I could kill him most of the time by hitting him 3-4 before he would start doing jumping jacks. Taking away the actual damage per missile would hurt anti infantry work that doesn't even work unless your really good with missiles. It also hurts the ability to fight Dropships, because usually your not going to get all 12 shots on target, and with these numbers hitting them with all 12 shots wouldn't even kill one before they just AB away.


Not hating on your numbers, just giving constructive criticism.

That sounds like a good reload speed to me.

The only other thing I would change is having RoF at least at 300. This 200 right now does not feel natural to my trigger finger (I've always semi-auto fired it due to the full auto not always working, and because it's much more accurate that way). 400 RPM feels right, but 300 is acceptable since we're trying to keep its DPS at a reasonable level. What do you think it's max DPS should be so we're on the same page?

Why not make large missiles fire in 4 round salvos? That way it applies a lot of damage rapidly within the salvo, then waits a second or two, then shoots again. This gives some warning to people, still lets missiles deal crazy damage, yet may actually make them a little harder to use because you have to be sure when you pull that trigger.

Should missile velocity be looked at as well? Idk if that's even applicable but it would make mid to long range engagements easier.

Also, all these different versions we have would make GREAT variety for missile turrets

We really just need Rattati to get on this thread so we can then get these ideas into reality

Back before 1.7, we had accelerated missile turret variants, and they were the only ones I used. That along with the Falchion bonus to missile range made me the king of missile sniping.

On the ease of use thing, I want missiles to be the hardest turret to use in the game, but reward players who can land their shots effectively. In other words, you should have to practice with it to git gud. That's why I want small magazine, high damage.

And yeah, the tracking thing would be awesome, but it's not happening in this game, soooo....

Can you think of any module that would be as beneficial to the missile as a heat sink is to the blaster/rail? Besides a damage mod of course, and the module would have to be a low slot because... Ya know.... There's nothing else useful there besides regs and fitting mods.

Oh, we both forgot about the fitting costs of Missiles being higher in both CPU and PG over the rail. That needs to be fixed

soooo, your making it easier for the missile to kill the other tank, not only do they do massive damage but they reload faster?

* does rain dance to make Rattati appear*

So...missile turrets...

Well...what about making them a Burst Fire Weapon (Or rather a burst fire weapon that works more like the Combat Rifle)...with a 4 round burst, 12 or 16 rounds in the magazine, a burst interval of 0.2 and a fire rate of 0.1, Direct damage of about 485...reload speed of 8-10s?

Bump!

had a chance to run those numbers pokey?

Maybe I went a little too strong on the burst damage, but the idea would be that you change the Missile Turret to be the Industrial Strength Burst HMG/Combat Rifle...now with 100% more Explosions!

Ok...burst missile turret suggestion is looking at being a little more reasonable than what it was before...still a powerhouse...but less insta-ganky...I'll play around with the numbers more on my end...but comparatively it looks like a more realistic option now...still dangerously close to the LOLALPHA system of the past though...will post a gain with some new numbers when I think of them

I kind of would like to see the missile turret with all 14 tubes having something in them though XD

I really wish you were CPM pokey. Then maybe we could get this stuff to happen much quicker, if it happens at all.

You don't use vehicles, why do you care?

You play Dust? That's news to me.

Besides, spreadsheet =/= gameplay.

Well, I guess we asked for it. The trolls have arrived Pokey.

That's exactly it, I play the game. I essentially play every single day. I know what vehicles are like, and I know what AV is like. You have no experience with vehicles, and probably little to none with AV.

I've broken down why your ideas are bad. I was a spreadsheet warrior for two spreadsheets, and that's all I need to make. Hulls and turrets. I've said many times before that AV should be a deterrent. Useless =/= deterrent. I hear all the time "oh, you want to make AV useless, what do you expect us to do?" For one thing, people could get a pilot in their squad. They want to squad with one? That's their problem. The game shouldn't be balanced around the very, very, very slim chance that one team will have a full squad's worth of pilots and the other will have a single person with AV. In my experience, which is far more extensive than yours, that has never happened since Uprising deployed, not a single time. On every single team I've ever faced in pubs and FW, at least two people have had PRO AV.

And I've said this plenty before: national corps that don't speak English as their first language do anything and everything to annihilate every single vehicle on the map, as well as prevent any others from being called in. This could include all of the following: tanks, AV, proxy mine traps. I've been taken out countless times by a squad of Russians, Spanish, Italians, GAC themselves, Germans, Brazilians, etc. Yet it's the native English speakers that are on here that forever have problems taking out tanks. It's not fair that they have to reload to destroy a tank. It's not fair that they can't solo a tank, and that they would be better off using teamwork. It's not fair that my > 60mil SP into vehicles can make short work of people that stand still with a total amount of 2mil SP into whichever AV weapon they prefer. They may have been using AV for a month or two, I've been using tanks for a year and half. Who do you think will win? The YOLO Mexican Jumping Bean with a plasma cannon, or the veteran vehicle pilot? I'm sure you'd like to say the YOLO AV person every single time.

I've sunk a hell of a lot of time and ISK into building up experience to make me as hard for AV and other vehicles to kill as possible, while also killing as many other vehicles and infantry as possible. I have the experience to hit a moving target while I'm moving, which is something I haven't seen many able to do. I have the experience to destroy someone using AV against me while I circle them with a blaster, which I haven't seen many able to do. I have the experience to snipe infantry with a railgun, which I haven't seen many able to do. I've evaded and destroyed YOLO jihad jeeps, which if you had any experience is not an easy thing to do.

Spreadsheet numbers based on imaginary controlled ideas does not translate to the game. You can work out what you wholeheartedly believe to be good numbers, but is trash on the battlefield. I still laugh at your ideas for pilot suits, having insane disadvantages for every single advantage the suit would give a given hull. With your ideas, I'm better off not getting them at all. I've also seen terrible ideas such as 3% to max ammo per level, and that's it. Class suits have 3 bonuses, and that previous idea is a single bonus. How is that fair?

Pilots have proposed ideas which would actually be useful to vehicles, such as the Gallente pilot suit adding 2% or 3% to rep rate per level, and the Caldari adding 2% or 3% to shield recharge rate per level. Another great bonus only available at level 5 would be slaved control of any unmanned small turrets on a vehicle.

The answer for balance is not to always nerf vehicles and buff AV. My answer would be HTFU and use teamwork. Do you really expect to solo someone like me, or Taka, or Doc, or Mary, or Morte, or any other highly experience pilot?

Oh I was there lol. Best post by a game dev EVER. I'll try you take on the situation and just laugh from now on.

Simply explaining why bad ideas are bad.

"Why were tanks better in Chrome?"

LOL

So the past 2 days I've been running only a missile Gunnlogi (as my tank of choice, I've done other things.) std hull, proto turret & mostly proto mods, think it's just the shield hardener that's basic (because I'm a scrub.)

I mostly only saw militia tanks, both kinds dropped in less than 1 set of missiles (to be expected.)


But I also came up against a few std and adv Madruga, mostly blaster turrets, but also some guy with shields stacked and a rail turret (random build, but I put some shields on my Madruga as well, lol.) They all died pretty easily... The only ones that didn't were where I went 1 tank v 2 tanks... And they still jumped out with av grenades/swarms... Thanks for that Heaven84 scrubs... I lost 2 tanks, they lost 5.

I'm tempted to say there isn't an issue with missiles (still sure the Gunni is fine) though I can't be sure what their fits were like, mostly had their hardeners up and were generally shooting back, when not spamming av grenades.

Why not make them more like a shotgun not enough damage to insta gank same awesome ROF from before ..but you can fire at any point in the reload