Wait, you actually want the Shield Hardeners to negate even more damage? Have you ever tried pulling AV duty?

I've had PRO forge, swarms and plasma. Yes, I have. It's also pathetically easy and cheap.

You should try that. Grab a 100K+ Proto AV fit,

I was here during closed beta, when an IAFG alone was 117k ISK. PRO turrets are far more than 100k ISK. Stop complaining about the cost of AV, you know nothing of the cost of vehicles.

and engage that Gunnlogi with 4K+ shield when he's got some boosters and a Hardener active.

Proper fit, too bad.

Not a chance you'll break through him before he drives off into the distance.

Patience, timing and teamwork. You should try it sometime.

Also, if Tank v. Tank is the goal, you'll never get balance unless Tanks stop tearing Infantry to shreds,

Rattati himself wants UHAVs and DHAVs. What's the point of a DHAV when infantry can do it cheaper, and run away/take cover more effectively? We can't tear infantry to shreds unless they stand still staring at us as if we were a rainbow colored unicorn. Blasters were nerfed because we could aim with them.

but as long as a single HAV can tear up a full squad, that squad should also be able to tear that HAV to bits in return.

Their own fault if not a single one doesn't even have AV grenades. Boy Scout rule, always be prepared.

But, you giving your opinion as a Tanker is fair, offcourse. So here's the opinion of an AV guy:

I can't wait.

1) Shield Hardeners are ridiculous. Negating 40% damage is too much,

You haven't used tanks

causing Plasma Cannons (being Anti-shield) to need 5-6 shots to break through a semi-decent fitted Gunnlogi's shield

It's a tank, it's supposed to handle and have the HP of a tank. Too bad you have to reload, being able to 2-shot anything is OP.

and don't even think about bringing a Swarm launcher, because they'll do literally nothing.

They still do a ton of damage on a Minmando.

Bring this in line with the Armor Hardener at 25%, there's no valid reason to have one at 25% and the other at 40%.

Armor hardener attenuates more damage than the shield hardener. Haven't you read any of the tank patch notes?

2) Why do Tanks get regulators? Because Infantry have them? Well, I'll have some Infantry Shield Boosters and some Hardeners as well. Thanks in advance.

Good luck using active modules. Looks to me like you have no clue how difficult it is to manage active modules. Don't complain when you get torn to shreds by a fresh academy grad.

But in all seriousness. Some tanks can take a lot of damage, only to drive off, and repair their shields and armor in a couple of seconds.

Yet it's fair for scouts to cloak and heal quite fast, right?

This is unbalanced.

See above about scouts.

You've got Special repair tools for Vehicles. Make them useful. Either put a cap on Armor reps, or remove them completely.

Do you have any idea what you're talking about?

This will force super-tough Tank builds to hang back longer before being able to re-engage, as well as provide more incentive for pilots to choose a fit with a repair tool to keep themselves alive.

Then reduce infantry rep rates. Fair, right?

3) Give us a way to counter Active Modules. An EMP grenade that instantly removes any activated module effects, as well as force a cool down on the others; as if they had been activated.

Tanks have far more power - give us an EMP ability too that counters both vehicle and infantry HP regeneration. Fair, right?

This will open up the way for infantry based AV to develop more tactics,

No, it's shoot, shoot again, complain that 2 shots don't kill it, shoot again, shoot again, start crying then rage quit.

and give us a counter to HAV's that stock up on Shield Boosters/ Hardeners.

Maybe we should go pure buffer with extenders just to make you happy.

Offcourse, this will have no effect on Passive module builds, but that's ok, because the AV squad will be forced to choose between AV or EMP grenades.

Decisions, decisions.

4) Variety!

Infantry has it, vehicles don't.

We're forced to choose between a Plasma Cannon with no variety at all, a Swarm Launcher with one useless variant and a Forge Gun.

1. Huge anti-shield capability; 2. idiot-proof auto-aim auto-tracking nuclear missile bomb; 3. wait for the perfect opportunity with a PRO breach forge and 1-shot it from behind.

(No comment on FG's, because I don't play them,

Not surprised.

but I know from a buddy who used to play them that due to the range cap and inherent slowness of Heavies they're the bottom choice for AV atm.)

Same range as a railgun. Point invalid.

Besides that we get Proximity mines, which are kind of ok, but don't have a decent enough increase from STD->ADV-->Proto.

So use more than 3.

(Deploy one more per tier.) What might help is reducing their scan profile, so it's harder for HAV's to detect them.

There's no way to passive detect them.

And AV Grenades, which are good,

Handheld nuclear baseballs.

but due to the speed at which HAV's accelerate and their top speed the 3rd grenade we got is useless,

Stop throwing them at a tank speeding away.

My main request: Give us a Breach Plasma Cannon, with less Splash Damage, more base damage and have it do decent damage vs. Armor as well.

AV does 100% damage for shield and armor now; there's still proficiencies towards shield and armor I'm sure. There's still also the breach forge gun. You should try aiming some time, it's rewarding.

PLC doesn't do enough damage v. Armor to make them an ideal AV weapon.

That's because it's an anti-shield weapon.

The only reason they worked well before Echo is due to the prevalence of Shield Tanks.

Because shield tanks were far superior to armor tanks.

Now the Armour tank is back, and AV is seriously lacking once more.

Lacking? What are you talking about? You and a friend will have a great chance in ambushing a tank with Packed Lai Dai grenades. If you fail at that, I don't know what to tell you.

Swarm Launchers are not effective enough because the tiniest piece of cover between you and the tank will block most, if not all of the missiles.

Entirely incorrect. I've watched them go through the smallest spaces to hit my vehicle, even if it's just one missile. They generally avoid everything and pound the living hell out of whatever they hit.

They're great for Dropships, but not ground vehicles.

They are great against ground vehicles, you just fire at the very first opportunity and don't want to put any effort in.

so, tl;dr: AV needs more variety, and a decent way to compete with Active modules.

Vehicles need more variety, and infantry needs to try out active dropsuit modules some time.

You call my statement about the Swarms "entirely incorrect".

I've been on the receiving end of swarms for over a year and a half.

Let me assure you, sir, that for every volley that dodges an object, 3 others smash into things in idiotic ways.

I watch them avoid obstacles and terrain, including going through small gaps to hit me. Inb4 "anecdotal BS."

The only reason you don't notice this is because....They don't hit your tank.

See above about aforementioned 17 months of experience in tanks.

Also the damage of a single Swarm missile is laughable, so again, your point is moot, because even if there's more than one that bends the curve, the rest won't hit you, and you can casually cruise back to the redline and rep in peace.

Doesn't matter, that missile can still take me out if I have literally nothing left. "Rest won't hit you," as if you've watched them coming toward you. Dunno what you're talking about with "casually cruise back to the redline and rep in peace." AV pounded the hell out of me the last couple of days. A tank has a far tougher time taking me out than AV does. Why? Because it's still "vehicles and AV need to be balanced on the chance that only one person on either team will have a small amount of SP in AV weapons, so they need to be powerful enough to take on someone with a year of experience."

The problem I have with this discussion is that I'm simply trying to push for some more variety in AV, to get rid of the auto-aim weaponry (Swarms, AV grenades) and give AV some options where they need to aim, or use tactics/ teamwork.

Plasma and forge require aim. You passively add damage; we have to activate a module to add damage. We don't have idiot-proof auto-lock and auto-track turrets.

Because as you say, it's very rewarding when you get the kill with a fancy shot you pulled off, rather than with the Locked on Swarms or homing AV nade.

Of course it's rewarding: it's pilot experience vs pilot experience, not some drooler yelling out "YOLO" while he runs toward me throwing AV grenades.

It's sad that Tankers seem so scared of giving AV anything, even if it would make the vehicle/ Infantry interaction a bit more layered and interesting.

It's not layered or interesting. AV has been taking from us for the last 3 years, and we've been given nothing in return. We lost the Chakkram, Kubera, Sagaris, Surya, Falchion, Vayu, Eryx, Prometheus, Limbus, Charybdis, and I don't remember the names of the scout LAVs, because they were useless. We lost all those vehicles in the name of "rework" and "tweaking" and "work on them until we figure out a use for them." We lost all of that, and infantry gained the plasma cannon. I'm actually surprised CCP let us keep the ADS, considering they originally said they were going to take away those too.

Chromosome was wonderful - tanks countered tanks. There were pilots that were feared back in those days, though I will say that plenty of it was waiting in the redline for someone to pop up, then destroying them in 2-3 shots with a glass Soma. Nowadays, something like that doesn't work, and doesn't show that you're actually 'good' in a tank. Infantry didn't like tanks countering tanks, so they started a huge nerf train, to the point where this is the 4th vehicle rework that I remember, starting from when Chrome ended to Uprising started. Of course we don't want to give AV anything, we've had a ton of hulls taken away, turret variants taken away, and the core skills that used to be on par with infantry taken away. We don't have any concessions left to give.

Also, dude, I know this is the internet and all, but there really is no need to insult people you've never seen or played against.

I'm not insulting, I'm pointing out where people are wrong. As for not playing against them, well, I never see them. Never seen Pokey or Breakin, I see Doc, Mary, Morte, and Atiim once a month. Pokey and Breakin were the loudest voices on here for this, and they don't use vehicles.

Again, I haven't played against them because they don't play. I'm on every day. Life gets in the way which is understandable. That hasn't happened to me for a few years thankfully, so I don't have to worry about a dreaded early morning call.

Again, they don't play, so I can't play against them.

example:
*you just fire at the very first opportunity and don't want to put any effort in.*

Your exact words. Yet, sadly for you, they are also completely incorrect, because I've completely stepped off the Swarm Launchers for HAV killing, in favor of the Plasma Cannon.

If you've 'stepped off the swarm launchers', that means you were using them previously and are a part of the problem.

Swarms don't require any effort, and people do fire at the very first opportunity. Again, I've been using tanks for over a year and a half, I have a lot of experience with this.

Just remember that a stupid and incorrect insult added to a decent argument tends to destroy the credibility of that argument. I believe in showing basic respect for people even, no especially, when you believe they're incorrect.

Again, they're not insults, it's pointing out where people are wrong.