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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
7557
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Posted - 2015.03.13 05:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
You guys couldn't be more wrong. Scout performance has taken quite the dive over the past few months, and I'm willing to bet their kill / spawn efficiency reaches UP levels this build.
Scouts are out. They've been out. There's never been a better time to run Assault.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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7559
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Posted - 2015.03.13 06:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Scouts are OP? You couldn't be more wrong.
Scout performance has taken a dive over the past few months, and I'm willing to bet their kill / spawn efficiency reaches UP levels this build. Scouts are out. They've been out. There's never been a better time to run Assault.
PS: Scout passives are garbage compared to GalLogi 21db scans. If you want something for realsies OP to fuss about, this one's your best bet. Negligible risk, massive reward. Spammed in PC. Pubstomp staple. Call me when Gallogi slayers start to swarm the field in as great of numbers as we see scouts, even now after the 'castration'. Then I might agree.
Click dropsuits:
http://dust.thang.dk/market_historycategory.php
Almost there already.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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7559
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Posted - 2015.03.13 07:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:
The reason Ewar on scouts was went after in the first place was because it was just as easy to help allies as it was to slay as a lone wolf, and when given that option people will more often than not do so. If it becomes an issue with the Gallogi the same will happen to it. As it is, there's no hint if that happening.
Lol. The EWAR Scouts we deemed "OP" were no where near as effective as today's GalLogi's.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
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7559
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Posted - 2015.03.13 07:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:Also my only real point in this thread was that I'm sick of every buff to % based modules effecting scouts far more positively than every other suit because it just leads to more nerfs. The reason they do is because their base stats are all higher 'cept for HP.
Scouts are on the losing end of the Myo deal. Assaults jump just as high and get to keep their HP buffer.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
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7559
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Posted - 2015.03.13 07:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:
The reason Ewar on scouts was went after in the first place was because it was just as easy to help allies as it was to slay as a lone wolf, and when given that option people will more often than not do so. If it becomes an issue with the Gallogi the same will happen to it. As it is, there's no hint if that happening.
Lol. The EWAR Scouts we deemed "OP" were no where near as effective as today's GalLogi's. And yet the flood of Gallogis has yet to arrive...
You only need one GalLogi to permascan an entire Ambush match for an entire team.
Why spam multiple units when you only need one?
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
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7559
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Posted - 2015.03.13 07:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:
The reason Ewar on scouts was went after in the first place was because it was just as easy to help allies as it was to slay as a lone wolf, and when given that option people will more often than not do so. If it becomes an issue with the Gallogi the same will happen to it. As it is, there's no hint if that happening.
Lol. The EWAR Scouts we deemed "OP" were no where near as effective as today's GalLogi's. Running solo with a precision mod as a scout meant that the wallhack was strong with scouts.
Not after cloakblind. Which EWAR Scout loadout do you have in mind? Put some numbers on that wallhack for me, then let's compare it to today's GalLogi.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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7563
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Posted - 2015.03.13 12:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mejt0 wrote:ScR is OP says community.
Min ass is OP says community.
Scout is OP says community
Swarms are OP says community
Sentinel is OP says community
HMG is OP says community.
Hey.. you [community] have to decide. Whining about everything doesn't give anything.
Just another trash thread on the list.
Balance doesn't just happen automatically. There are going to be overperforming and underperforming items to address until this machine becomes finely tuned.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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7563
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Posted - 2015.03.13 13:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Who uses cloaks on assault scouts?
And a scout is a far better fighting suit than a logi. I'm running a damped precision GalScout as an assault and with the exception of squads with a dedicated logi i don't have to worry about much and can usually see the flow of combat around me.
An Assault Scout? Now I'm hesitant to believe you. Zatara assured us that these don't exist back when we were all discussing the reasons why to replace the high-risk / low-reward 250HP Recon Scouts with today's low-risk / high-reward GalLogis. "The real problem with Scouts has always been their 360 wallhacks ... Assault Lite doesn't even exist; that was all made up by the Barbershop ... the real problem is the EWAR Scout trifecta ... let's buff Logi scan range."
I put three Creodron shotgun blasts into a GalLogi yesterday before he finally ran out of HP and died. Find for me one EWAR Scout ever who could've taken that kind of abuse. Find for me one EWAR Scout ever who could permascan an entire Ambush match at 21dB for his entire team.
But I digress. Let's talk about these scans of yours on your Assault GalScout with 1 cPE:
Inner / Middle / Outer
6m / 15m / 30m
13dB / 26 dB / 34 dB
Your scans aren't much different from my GalAssault + 1 cPE:
Inner / Middle / Outer
6m / 15m / 30m
16dB / 32 dB / 42 dB
We both see what we look at. We both see whatever's active scanned. We both see dampened units within 5m. We both see undampened units within 15m. The one major difference is that between 15m and 30m, you'll pick up undampened Assaults and I won't. Oh wait ... I will too, because undampened Assaults are constantly active scanned.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
7645
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Posted - 2015.03.15 04:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
BrutorDestructor wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:
The reason Ewar on scouts was went after in the first place was because it was just as easy to help allies as it was to slay as a lone wolf, and when given that option people will more often than not do so. If it becomes an issue with the Gallogi the same will happen to it. As it is, there's no hint if that happening.
Lol. The EWAR Scouts we deemed "OP" were no where near as effective as today's GalLogi's. Lol you mean those EWAR cal scouts that could 360 wallhack perma scan everyone Except a 4 dampened gal scout 85 meters out with no cool down
Those are interesting numbers. Where'd you pull them from?
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
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7645
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Posted - 2015.03.15 04:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Can't tell you the last time I saw more Scouts than Assaults in any match. Probably pre-falloff. Is the fantasy above a pre-falloff fantasy, Aeon?
Today, you have everything you need to get away from a shotgunner or nova knifer consistently, even when they get the drop on you, even when they do everything right. All you have to do fit a precision enhancer, pay attention and leap away when one gets into range.
That's why Scout performance is going to tank this build, and Assault performance is going to continue to climb.
PS: The vast majority of Barbershop would support inertia and put end to wiggle-wiggle; most there have been anti-wiggle for as long as there's been wiggle.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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7645
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Posted - 2015.03.15 05:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
EDIT: Allow me to re-iterate. If I had my way, The Barbershop would be permanently locked, deleted, and all attempts to re-create it given the same treatment. It is literally the scum of the forums and there is absolutely nothing beneficial that will ever come from it.
That's absurd, Aeon. There's nothing there but dedicated players just like you, a 'bit of lore, and a bunch smarts and spreadsheets. If you so loathe Scouts you should be a fan of the Barbershop; the vast majority of Scouts nerfs since Uprising 1.8 were conceived in that very thread. If ever actually read the thread, you'd know that.
What bad thing has the Barbershop done and does that bad thing really warrant a perma-ban?
Aeon Amadi wrote:Go watch my most recent 'Past Broadcasts' video on Twitch livestream if you honestly need proof and are so blind as to have never seen more scouts than assaults.
I watched your melee broadcast. What I observed was a moderately talented player posting exceptional scores, match after match, thanks to a heavily armored and myofibbed Assault. Scouts have been far less numerous than Assaults since December of last year: http://dust.thang.dk/market_historycategory.php
And just wait until that graph reflects data from Echo; the Scouts you so loathe are unhealthy.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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7656
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Posted - 2015.03.15 15:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
BrutorDestructor wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:BrutorDestructor wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:
The reason Ewar on scouts was went after in the first place was because it was just as easy to help allies as it was to slay as a lone wolf, and when given that option people will more often than not do so. If it becomes an issue with the Gallogi the same will happen to it. As it is, there's no hint if that happening.
Lol. The EWAR Scouts we deemed "OP" were no where near as effective as today's GalLogi's. Lol you mean those EWAR cal scouts that could 360 wallhack perma scan everyone Except a 4 dampened gal scout 85 meters out with no cool down Those are interesting numbers. Here are some real numbers: The EWAR CalScout we nerfed scanned at a maximum of 20dB; the GalLogi scans at 21dB, at far longer ranges and shares results team-wide. The EWAR CalScout we nerfed earned no WP for recon assists, did not dampen (so it could fit range amps), and had to be decloaked or its scan range was reduced by 85%. CalScouts fit for Recon weighed in at 250HP; far too squishy to "defend itself  " while running recon for its squad. It met the definition of high-risk. What's the max HP on a GalLogi who's rapidfiring team-wide scans from 200m out? No need to defend its self the three amarr heavies in their squad with 360 Prema scan shared passive with a logi on their asses does all the defending the cal didn't recon it sat in the middle of the squad scanning 85 meters out
You're right. The CalScout's always-on scans were a problem. But we didn't solve the problem with Falloff; we simply replaced 20 dB always-on squad scans with 21dB always-on team scans.
And for the record, that 250HP CalScout was a piece of cake to take out.
1/4 of 1 second of SCR fire
1/4 of 1 second of HMG fire
1/3 of 1 second of Fine Rifle fire
1 shotgun blast
1 bolt pistol round
1 locus nade
1 sniper round
What's the max HP on a GalLogi again? The one who's rapidfiring team-wide 21dB scans from 200m out?
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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7662
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Posted - 2015.03.15 19:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
BrutorDestructor wrote:
... because gal scans have cool downs
GalLogi + Creodron Flux (12 sec visibility, 30 sec cooldown)
0 seconds - Scanner 1 fires
12 seconds- Scanner 2 fires
24 seconds- Scanner 3 fires
30 seconds- Scanner 1 ready
36 seconds- Scanner 1 fires
42 seconds- Scanner 2 ready
3 scanners needed to permascan 200m / 90-¦ at 21dB
* results shared team-wide
GalLogi + Creodron (7.5 sec visibility, 15 sec cooldown)
0 seconds - Scanner 1 fires
7.5 seconds- Scanner 2 fires
15 seconds- Scanner 1 ready
15 seconds- Scanner 1 fires
22.5 seconds- Scanner 2 ready
22.5 seconds- Scanner 2 fires
2 scanners needed to permascan 100m / 60-¦ at 21 dB
* results shared team-wide
GalLogi + Proximity (15 sec visibility, 10 sec cooldown)
0 seconds- Scanner 1 fires
10 seconds- Scanner 1 ready
15 seconds- Scanner 1 fires
1 scanner needed to permascan 60m / 45-¦ at 21 dB
* results shared team-wide
GalLogi + Quantum (30 sec visibility, 40 sec cooldown)
0 seconds - Scanner 1 fires
30 seconds- Scanner 2 fires
40 seconds- Scanner 1 ready
60 seconds- Scanner 1 fires
70 seconds- Scanner 2 ready
2 scanners needed to permascan 100m / 60-¦ at 21 dB
* results shared team-wide
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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7769
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Posted - 2015.03.16 22:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
Archduke Ferd1nand wrote:
With Gallogi perma scans, there is no reason to be a scout at all.
Gonna disagree with you here; 21dB permascan is one of the few good reasons to run Scout.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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7785
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Posted - 2015.03.17 01:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
FLAYLOCK Steve wrote:One thing I learned from Dust 514 and that is that the most used class is the assault. And everyone chases the Fotm. So if scouts are OP why am I seeing more assaults ...
Assaults outnumbering Scouts is a relatively new trend. From Mar 2014 to December 2014, Scouts were very much FoTM. It wasn't until a few months ago that Assault usage finally overtook Scout usage. The usage gap between the two has since widened dramatically.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Adipem Nothi
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7789
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Posted - 2015.03.17 02:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
FLAYLOCK Steve wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:FLAYLOCK Steve wrote:One thing I learned from Dust 514 and that is that the most used class is the assault. And everyone chases the Fotm. So if scouts are OP why am I seeing more assaults ... Assaults outnumbering Scouts is a relatively new trend. From Mar 2014 to December 2014, Scouts were very much FoTM. It wasn't until a few months ago that Assault usage finally overtook Scout usage. The usage gap between the two has since widened dramatically. I wasn't playing around then I think. I left before all the hell storm members just vanished. I left right before or soon after 1.4
Gotcha. You missed the whole "Rise of the Scout".
Was super hardmode between 1.0 and 1.7. Then 1.8 hit and dang near everyone respec'd into Scout suits. It was terrible, but over time it was fixed. You've returned at a good time; our suits are no longer OP.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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