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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17618
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Posted - 2015.03.13 01:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Bear in mind CCP Rattati is preping for a multi stage approach to vehicle changes which includes the introduction of reskinned hulls to represent the Amarr and Minmatar Tanks.
Minmatar HAV - 4/3
Amarr HAV - 2/5
I suggest that if you are interested in the 2/5 scenario you hold out for that Amarr HAV reskin and make use of it then, untill then you can use the Gallente hull to practice fitting to determine what you like in terms of Armour and in terms of your utility modules for which one you want to give up.
Personally I'm hoping for Passive Plating in subsequent updates and active armour reps so I can operate on a build like this...
2x 120mm Plate
1x Hardener
1x Passive Plate
1x Heavy Repairer
Oddly enough given how weirdly tough a few pre-patch Maddies were I'd keep trying with the Gallente rep based tanking style might work a bit better now.
Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you.
Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17618
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Posted - 2015.03.13 01:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:one question, what is the fundamental difference of the philosophy of armor booster vs active armor repper?
Can you define the term "Armour Booster" for me as I am not sure if you are referring to passive reps or something else entirely.
Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you.
Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
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True Adamance
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Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17619
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Posted - 2015.03.13 01:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Soul Cairn wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:one question, what is the fundamental difference of the philosophy of armor booster vs active armor repper? Do you mean the passive rep mods we have now vs the active ones of 1.7? I think that is what he means.
Assuming that is the case I found it to be a more engaging and tactical form of gameplay than leaving the entirety of my tanks repair operations to be a passive attribute. What previously gave armour tanks their waves of opportunity were arguably the active repairers themselves.
It was possible to operate within an area while you hardeners were active but choosing when and how to use your active reps was a skill in of itself and it was that ability to choose specifically when you needed a boost to armour values that determined who were the really good tankers of the old days.
More to the point I believe it represents positive EVE/Dust continuity. Armour is typically represented by the traits of having slightly higher raw HP and partially higher eHP than shields but balanced out by having no repairs at all.
To put it into more perspective from a gameplay scenario we've had issues in the past where high passive repair values make tanks with high eHP values virtually indestructible being able to withstand AV and during the reload/down times piratically regenerate all of their HP. This was not something I personally was a fan of....I think it makes it too easy to regulate your repairs rather than relying on fitting and skill to manage those repair cycles. I think universally amongst most pilots people liked the old armour repairers that were active [don't quote me on that!].
EDIT- GImme Half and Hour to eat lunch and I'll make a much better argument for them.
Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you.
Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
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True Adamance
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Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17623
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Posted - 2015.03.13 02:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
bastille123 wrote:Stalken Pathfinder wrote:Overall I really like what you guys have tried to do with HAV. Thank you for all the hard work you put into this.
That being said I think the proto hulls need more flexibility in terms of fitting in order to achieve more durable builds. Especially madrugers; they are much better than they were but still not quite where they need to be. Armor reps slow over time need larger buffer so they don't get insta-popped by missile/rails with very high alpha damage. Need 1 more low slot so you can fit a PG or CPU extender without sacrificing EHP. That or just give them more base CPU and pg to start with. Also take away the third high slot. Make us choose between damage amp plus heat sink OR fuel injector, not all three. Therefore tanks that want to do max dmg have to sacrifice EHP in the form of damage avoidance vis a vis fuel injector. Armor tanks still cannot sit in one place and deliver punishment like they supposed to be. You still have to play them hit and run play style right now.
I am not asking for or expecting Marauders. But these new proto tanks are too weak to cost what they do right now. So please consider a couple minor tweaks or drop proto hull prices by 25%.
Just my 2 cents. Thanks again for the update! Really glad this game is still fighting for its life. #dustonps4 #ibelieve dont forget that tanks i general now has the lowest EHP in the entire history of DUST no other build had them this squishy not even enforcers had EHP this low
The armour I have planned has, with two reppers, 585 more hp and significantly more EHP than the previous build's madrugar, not to mention the shield tank has the potential for more eHP. If i were to consider the tank I actually plan of using it has almost as much raw HP as my old maddy had EHP
Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you.
Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
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True Adamance
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Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17626
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Posted - 2015.03.13 03:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ralden Caster wrote:True Adamance wrote:
Passive Armour Tanking - Like Passive Shield Tanking revolves around building up armour resistances and raw HP to achieve extremely high eHP levels with the purpose of withstanding all damage thrown at it and being able to slink home at the end of the engagement as it has 0 armour regeneration.
Active Armour Tanking- Again like Active Shield Tanking Active Armour Tanking makes use of prolifically powerful armour repair modules to mitigate damage as well as powerful active armour repairs to absorb and repair through incoming damage.
If that's how armor works eve-side, how does the Gallente tanking style play out? Here in Dust, Gallente rely on constant, passive reps.
Gallente in EVE are Active Armour tankers for the most part though that does the description of tanking in EVE a great disservice. Basically like the Amarr the Gallente are JUST armour tankers which means they can both passive and active tank. However several of their ships gain bonuses to armour repair rates which leads to this ideal that they are a repair based race. However unlike Dust EVE has NO PASSIVE ARMOUR REPAIRS, all armour repairs come from a source, either being Active Repair Modules or Remote Repair Modules.
In EVE for example what one typically might do it fit different kinds of Active Repair Modules to their vessels and combine those with plates and comparatively lesser armour resistance values to absorb and nullify incoming damage while either rushing in with Blasters or trying to Kite with Drones.
This differs from the Amarr who in my experience are better suited to Passive Tanking and combine Armour Plates with various resistance based modules accentuated by specific ships with armour resistance bonuses and unlike the Gallente try to rely on having significantly superior eHP to cover for the fact they have no repair value so to speak.
In Dust what has happened since Uprising 1.7 is that the old Active Armour Repairers that we used to have to activate to provided any repairs at all were entirely scrapped and replaced by the passive no in put variants we have now. Basically one could say that in Dust the Gallente might as well have their racial doctrine represented by repairs no matter what form they come in.
Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you.
Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17626
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Posted - 2015.03.13 03:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bright Cloud wrote:I think the tanks are fine as how they are now. However AV grenades and the nanohive buff makes you pay more attention to your surroundings and a scanner can save your life to prevent a ambush. Overall i think armor tanks have now the edge over shield tanks simply because of this:
-armor hardeners are now 40% (thats a huge buff right there)
-3 high slots offer you utility of damage, suppression fire, recon, mobile spawns or enhanced mobility
Its a all in 1 package and if you fit a single complex heavy repper on it then you will have much higher armor regen then a gunnlogi could achieve with passive shield regen.
Arguably to some extent how it should be but we need to get CCP Rattati to see the merits of Active Armour Repairs over Passives.
Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you.
Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
17629
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Posted - 2015.03.13 04:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
BIGolePECKERwood wrote: Amen to that. So has anyone else noticed the tanks are nerfed?? This is BS. I had four tank fittings that 'exceeded available CPU' guess this new 'hot fix' isn't so hot after all. This is bullshit man when are they going to stop ******* this game up?
In what way do you mean nerfed?
Edit- Even at basic level the Marduk have 810 more eHP than a standard Maddy would and 255 repairs per second with its 40% armour hardener, all that you have to do is accept that now we have tiers the Standard of the past does not represent the standard of today which is already arguably better than what it used to be.
Raphael: I'm warning you. Do not leave me here. I will find you.
Castiel: Maybe one day. Today you're my little bitch
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