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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
8390
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Posted - 2015.03.11 20:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
It kind of reminds me of many sports games. In the past few months, certain games have made national news in America because of basketball games where a high school team played full court defense with its starters for a full half despite being up 50 points. I think the game ended with a score of 126 to 10 or some nonsense.
People were indignant, and rightfully so.
There is a point at which you have to look at the progress of a game and say, maybe we should put out the second and third string, this is getting out of hand.
The point at which you get there depends on the game, but that is up to the individual.
Also, when people who proto stomp pubs start whining about meta locked game modes, just remember that you brought this on yourself.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
8391
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Posted - 2015.03.11 21:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Squagga wrote:People are always complaining about this. It's actually pretty annoring at this point. Who cares? Why do people have to defend themselves for playing the way they want?
Because it ruins the game for others? Particularly new players who don't know anything about the game, and their first experience out of the Academy is likely a proto stomping squad in a pub.
Some of us actually want the game to stick around, and that can't happen when the current NPE is Academy to being proto stomped.
Heck, even many vets are getting tired of it.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
8397
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Posted - 2015.03.11 22:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Squagga wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Squagga wrote:People are always complaining about this. It's actually pretty annoring at this point. Who cares? Why do people have to defend themselves for playing the way they want? Because it ruins the game for others? Particularly new players who don't know anything about the game, and their first experience out of the Academy is likely a proto stomping squad in a pub. Some of us actually want the game to stick around, and that can't happen when the current NPE is Academy to being proto stomped. Heck, even many vets are getting tired of it. Yeah, I agree. But people shouldn't have to defend themselves for playing the game the way they want to. Nobody is complaining about people using BPOs and that ruining the game. That battle academy thing should be extended a lot. It only last like two missions and then the new guys are "out in the galaxy" with little to prepare them for the terrors New Eden has to offer.
So you just agreed proto stomping is a problem, then condoned the people who do it...
I guess I am a realist. It would be nice if we could have a game where people who want to pull out their proto suits and play as hard as they want would have a viable game mode in which to do it. I do not have a problem with the idea of people using proto suits and trying their hardest.
What I can't understand is ignoring the real circumstances and the real ramifications. We do not have a game where such conditions exist, and never will if the game can't grow.
If people want to shoot themselves in the foot that is fine, but they really don't have a right to complain that their foot hurts and is bleeding after they do it, then blame someone else for simply handing them the gun.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
8404
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Posted - 2015.03.11 23:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Squagga wrote:One Eyed King wrote:Squagga wrote:People are always complaining about this. It's actually pretty annoring at this point. Who cares? Why do people have to defend themselves for playing the way they want? Because it ruins the game for others? Particularly new players who don't know anything about the game, and their first experience out of the Academy is likely a proto stomping squad in a pub. Some of us actually want the game to stick around, and that can't happen when the current NPE is Academy to being proto stomped. Heck, even many vets are getting tired of it. Yeah, I agree. But people shouldn't have to defend themselves for playing the game the way they want to. Nobody is complaining about people using BPOs and that ruining the game. That battle academy thing should be extended a lot. It only last like two missions and then the new guys are "out in the galaxy" with little to prepare them for the terrors New Eden has to offer. So you just agreed proto stomping is a problem, then condoned the people who do it... I guess I am a realist. It would be nice if we could have a game where people who want to pull out their proto suits and play as hard as they want would have a viable game mode in which to do it. I do not have a problem with the idea of people using proto suits and trying their hardest. What I can't understand is ignoring the real circumstances and the real ramifications. We do not have a game where such conditions exist, and never will if the game can't grow. If people want to shoot themselves in the foot that is fine, but they really don't have a right to complain that their foot hurts and is bleeding after they do it, then blame someone else for simply handing them the gun. It's a problem but no one should ever expect their opposition in online games to be responsible for their personal enjoyment of the game, it is firstly unreasonable, and secondly likely to conflict with their enjoyment of the game. In competition I am a firm believer that no one should pander to another teams ineffectualness as it does nothing to encourage them to do better or gives them a false impression of their own capabilities, though this is only in a competitive setting. Not sure why people are so discouraged by death and loss in this game where it should galvanise them to look at their own playstyle and take the knowledge from the previous death into account when attempting something again with the intent to go and and get some goddamn revenge. If that means stepping up to Proto then they need to step up not whine about how they refuse to use it or some such other nonsense. You personally are responsible for your own enjoyment of a game, just as another player is responsible for their own. Despite this fostering a positive gaming experience in non competitive matches is something that should be looked at.
I would agree if:
A: This weren't a multiplayer game in which the play of others directly influences the enjoyment of the game. If there were a PvE element like in Eve where people who do not want to play against others competitively existed.
B: We weren't talking Pubs, but we are. Pubs aren't where the competition is supposed to be. If the only people intended to play this game were competitive players, this game would go down in flames, particularly since this game is F2P. Anyone complaining about Proto suits in FW and PC is out of touch.
C: People didn't play for any number of reasons, including casually, but they do. Not everyone wants to play at a high level. I like bowling, but it doesn't mean I want to be in the PBA each time I go out.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
8405
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Posted - 2015.03.12 00:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:One Eyed King wrote:
I would agree if:
A: This weren't a multiplayer game in which the play of others directly influences the enjoyment of the game. If there were a PvE element like in Eve where people who do not want to play against others competitively existed.
B: We weren't talking Pubs, but we are. Pubs aren't where the competition is supposed to be. If the only people intended to play this game were competitive players, this game would go down in flames, particularly since this game is F2P. Anyone complaining about Proto suits in FW and PC is out of touch.
C: People didn't play for any number of reasons, including casually, but they do. Not everyone wants to play at a high level. I like bowling, but it doesn't mean I want to be in the PBA each time I go out.
It's precisely because of A that I have this mindset. When we engage in PvP which currently is the only game mode I cannot be responsible for your enjoyment of the game. My goal is simply to win, or get a lot of kills, or have fun doing what I do. For what reason would you expect me to compromise the enjoyment of the game so that you all might find some enjoyment? To what extent should I expect you to compromise your enjoyment to pander to me. Should I not use my HAV? Should I expect you not to us AV? Do you expect me not to shoot back or move you you can get a kill? Should I expect you to present yourself in the open so that I can farm you for kills? No. The game itself is fundamentally about conflict and people can always find things to while about it something doesn't go their way, myself included. However as there is no non competitive element of the game I would suggest that players have to accept that they are currently in a setting where competitive players usually are found or thrive and need to accept this as the game as it stands now. Pub wise I guess you are right. I'm personally not very interest in pubs when I play them so I have no drive to win, just there to fight tanks and maul infantry. As for your last point I can accept that but that does not mean you can expect your opposition to hold the same values as you do. It's New Eden, competition, power, wealth, that's what it all about regardless of whether or not you personally are a competitive individual. Yes you can find yourself a place in Null Sec and be a care bear if you wish....that won't stop PvP oriented players from finding you, killing you, and continuing to do so. AKA Low Sec ganking.
The problem is, if you accept all of the above, you simply accept the gradual reduction of Dust numbers, until only vets remain in such low and unsustainable numbers that the game get shut down for good.
Choosing to continue to use proto gear in proto squads in pub matches when it isn't necessary against new and/or casual players is counter productive to Dust growth.
Fighting for proto stomping rights in pubs under the current environment is mutually exclusive to fighting for Dust's growth and long term existence.
You can't force people to enjoy being proto stomped, and you can't enjoy proto stomping long term if people choose to leave.
Its continue proto stomping and enjoying ruining the game for others til there is not enough players left to keep the game around OR temporarily change that mind set when necessary so the game can grow and you can ultimately find good, fun, competitive games outside pub matches because the player base has grown enough to allow for that to happen.
TL;DR My main point is that there are always consequences to actions, intended or no. Proto stomping in pubs has far greater negative consequences to the game than positive. If people continue to choose to do this, they choose the consequences and can't b!tch and moan when they break something and point fingers at someone else for the choices they made.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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