DUST Search - scanners need reworking

Gyn Wallace wrote:

FLAYLOCK Steve wrote:

How many of you are actually scouts? ... scouts don't have the best ewar like everyone claims us to have.

I run scouts routinely. Its my second most used suit. Part of the problem with the "nerf scans!" crowd is that they seem to be trying to rebuild the days of super-scouts, not improve the game's balance. Its hard not to view that as a kind of transparently douche-baggy move.

Do you want me to address your allegation that scouts don't have the best EWAR? Or is the silliness of that assertion obvious enough that you'd like to withdraw it, or at the very least heavily qualify it?

Before you answer, consider the following: If I damp my logi, and you equip the most precise scanner, at what ranges can I evade your active or passive scans? Compare that to the reverse situation, you in the stealthiest scout, and me with the best scanner and precision enhancement.

Not running scouts, isn't why I'm dismissive of "scans are OP!" nonsense. Its because I also run scouts that I understand how ridiculously strong they STILL are compared to logis, who are wildly overdue for a buff.

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Gyn Wallace OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 288	Posted - 2015.03.10 23:26:00 - [31] - Quote Rinzler XVII wrote: when you getting scanned in your own redline after spawning in with a min scout with the complex damps N you get scanned you know there broken Proto scout with 3 complex damps * How can 1 piece of equipment require so much to counter it when the scanner has no drawbacks? Since this is a better place for my reply from another thread, I'll just share it here: Gyn Wallace wrote: The simple truth is that there is nothing OP about the most precise scans having a small chance of picking up the stealthiest scouts. For you to suggest that scans are OP in the current system, where the most precise scans have ZERO chance of picking up the stealthiest scouts, simply is not reasonable. Every scanner can be completely evaded. I have no option for detecting the stealthiest scouts, until they chose to reveal themselves. Which side of the stealth/detection balance is OP? The side that has ZERO chance of detecting the stealthiest scouts? Do you understand how ridiculous your complaint is? Scans could receive a huge buff: the ability to have a SMALL chance of detecting the stealthiest scouts, briefly, within a narrow arc, at short range, and scans STILL wouldn't be OP. Complaints about scans being OP do one thing: prove to your audience that you aren't reasonable. The Dust/Eve Isk Exchange Thread
FLAYLOCK Steve Kinsho Swords Caldari State 475	Posted - 2015.03.10 23:52:00 - [32] - Quote How many of you are actually scouts? People who don't use scouts shouldn't even troll someone who is saying that scanners are OP. I don't have a problem with scanners, but to some extent I do understand where the OP is coming from because I mmyself am a scout. It's hard to evade them, scouts don't have the best ewar like everyone claims us to have. Especially since the radar thing lags. Logis have better passive scans then we do. Let me give you an example, the minja is supposed to be an assassin, and proof to that is us having a bonus to the nova knives. Yet we have the least focused ewar suit ever, even with proto damps. And that's without mentioning the active scanners.
Genral69 death Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 97	Posted - 2015.03.10 23:55:00 - [33] - Quote Rinzler XVII wrote: when you getting scanned in your own redline after spawning in with a min scout with the complex damps N you get scanned you know there broken Proto scout with 3 complex damps * How can 1 piece of equipment require so much to counter it when the scanner has no drawbacks?
GLOBAL RAGE Consolidated Dust 120	Posted - 2015.03.11 00:19:00 - [34] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: GLOBAL RAGE wrote: WALL HACKS in any game are game breakers, no different in DUST. In RL it's easier to hide than seek. While scouts can and do both better then any role in-game . Why do you whine .?. is it because you have a DEFINED counter , while you can switch between the HP's of a light assault and commando , still have the best movement , scan , damp , OKH weapons , CQC weapons with bonus and still can fit scanners , RE's , all bio mods with e-war and a cloak for extra dampening ? The only players who whine about scanners are these poser scouts , who can't scout like the big boys and girls well it's time to put on your big boy / girl pants and stop complaining . Just pointing out a fact, and shared scans add to bandwith lag.
Gyn Wallace OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 289	Posted - 2015.03.11 00:23:00 - [35] - Quote FLAYLOCK Steve wrote: How many of you are actually scouts? ... scouts don't have the best ewar like everyone claims us to have. I run scouts routinely. Its my second most used suit. Part of the problem with the "nerf scans!" crowd is that they seem to be trying to rebuild the days of super-scouts, not improve the game's balance. Its hard not to view that as a kind of transparently douche-baggy move. Do you want me to address your allegation that scouts don't have the best EWAR? Or is the silliness of that assertion obvious enough that you'd like to withdraw it, or at the very least heavily qualify it? Before you answer, consider the following: If I damp my logi, and you equip the most precise scanner, at what ranges can I evade your active or passive scans? Compare that to the reverse situation, you in the stealthiest scout, and me with the best scanner and precision enhancement. Not running scouts, isn't why I'm dismissive of "scans are OP!" nonsense. Its because I also run scouts that I understand how ridiculously strong they STILL are compared to logis, who are wildly overdue for a buff. The Dust/Eve Isk Exchange Thread
FLAYLOCK Steve Kinsho Swords Caldari State 475	Posted - 2015.03.11 01:01:00 - [36] - Quote Gyn Wallace wrote: FLAYLOCK Steve wrote: How many of you are actually scouts? ... scouts don't have the best ewar like everyone claims us to have. I run scouts routinely. Its my second most used suit. Part of the problem with the "nerf scans!" crowd is that they seem to be trying to rebuild the days of super-scouts, not improve the game's balance. Its hard not to view that as a kind of transparently douche-baggy move. Do you want me to address your allegation that scouts don't have the best EWAR? Or is the silliness of that assertion obvious enough that you'd like to withdraw it, or at the very least heavily qualify it? Before you answer, consider the following: If I damp my logi, and you equip the most precise scanner, at what ranges can I evade your active or passive scans? Compare that to the reverse situation, you in the stealthiest scout, and me with the best scanner and precision enhancement. Not running scouts, isn't why I'm dismissive of "scans are OP!" nonsense. Its because I also run scouts that I understand how ridiculously strong they STILL are compared to logis, who are wildly overdue for a buff. Dude first of all, I just came back. Been back for about little over a month, haven't been around during the Era of "super scouts". There's plenty of threads that states that scouts don't have the best ewar. I'm not asking about a nerf to the active sscanners as I stated above and I'm not asking for a scout buff either, from personal experience CCP are not good at balancing anything. They either make things OP or nerf it to the ground. I have a proto minja scout and an advanced gal scout, and I own the elite pack so I have several suits. Logis do have a better passive scan, that's all I was stating.
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3481	Posted - 2015.03.11 02:20:00 - [37] - Quote The way I see it, there are two major problems with active scanners. One is that you can see enemies through walls on your HUD. Really, enemies should only show up on the mini-map, and that's it. Not having to look up at the map in order to know your enemy's location is a huge advantage, take it away and the active scanner won't be so dominant. Second is that if you are scanned, you are scanned. It's too black and white. I can have a maxed skills Gal scout with two complex dampeners, but if a Galogi comes along with a focused scanner then my super low profile means nothing. He will scan me despite the sacrifices I have made, and that's a problem. I'm hardly the first person to suggest it, but I would recommend that the closer the profile is to the precision, the less time you spend scanned. Just some numbers off the top of my head would be: Profile within 3 dB of precision: -50% scan duration (A 15 dB focused scanner would have it's duration reduced by 50% on someone with 15-18 profile) Profile within 5 dB of precision: -25% scan duration Any profile beyond 5 dB of the precision gets 100% duration. By doing that, someone with a single dampener still stands to benefit, rather than just being **** out of luck because a scanner still had 1 less dB precision than their profile. SP Sinks? Fixed.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 7407	Posted - 2015.03.11 02:36:00 - [38] - Quote Yep. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 7407	Posted - 2015.03.11 02:39:00 - [39] - Quote GLOBAL RAGE wrote: GALOGI & active scanner = just another example of CCP not listening to the community, they were warned. In CCP's defense, there were as many voices in favor as there were opposed. One happened to be a CPM. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
GLOBAL RAGE Consolidated Dust 121	Posted - 2015.03.11 02:52:00 - [40] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: GLOBAL RAGE wrote: GALOGI & active scanner = just another example of CCP not listening to the community, they were warned. In CCP's defense, there were as many voices in favor as there were opposed. Favoring enhancing a wall hack?- normally I would embed "EVEtard" within a pithy remark castigating CPM's, but being on the proper side of a debate is good enough.



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