An issue with focusing only on turn rate is how slow Dropships actually turn.

I can spin an ADS on its nose quick enough. The sharper a Dropships changes the direction its facing doesn't mean that the dropships have changed the direction its heading. To get swarms down to that level at current speeds would make them extremely diffcult to use VS tanks. Imagine a gunlogi pulling a 90 degree turn and breaking missile lock.

Why I suggested nerfing turn rate over distance is to keep swarms viable vs close/ medium range AV engagments such as vs tanks and LAVs.

Placeholder stats:

From launch to 250m out swarms behave exactly the same as currently.

250 - 300m reduce in flight turn rate by 25%

300 - 350m reduce in flight turn rate by 50%

350 - 400m reduce inflight turn rate by 75%

Chances of landing a hit decreases of over distance, and a smart swamer will not fire at maximum lock on range, the same way a forge gunner will not open fire at 300m. However, any pilot fool enough to hang around, or a sucessfull Swarm Ambush at close range will kill any dropship. Once the dropships gets far enough eway the odds are in the pilots favor but the fight is by no means a for gone conclusion. Unless you are still manuevering like mad at 350-400m+ away, you'll take that last and potentialy deadly hit.

Still don't understand ADS/HAV pilot issues with swarms. So long as they respond when hit, they've high odds of survival. It almost always (> 95%) took me more than 3 volleys to crash an ADS, even when running minmando w/pro(5) proto swarms.

Recently Respec'd out of both. Pulling 'em out got me killed 10x-20x more often than they got me a kill.

Edit: I play more Ambush than anything else.

Delete it, it's the only way to be sure.

Over 3 years and the basic problems have never been fixed or solved and i don't see that happening any time soon.



Disclaimer:

The above post is respectful, contains no ranting, contains no personal attacks, contains no trolling, contains no racism, contains no discrimination, contains no profanity, contains no spamming. This post is an opinion and is related to DUST514

No worries. Disclaimer accepted

But CCP isn't going to take that stance, and without some form of give and take, Rattati isn't taking swarm posts seriously. Infantry are happy with current swarm meta and they far outnumber pilots. The majority of pilots, and i have done this too, have put up posts born of frustration, which got pilots nowhere. So I want to build a lasting thread where new ideas can congregate in the same vien as tanks?

So why not a bit of give and take. Swarmers can get more missiles per magazine, and use their nanohives for Av nades. They can have longer range, to keep them a bit safer from infantry. For that they also get a significant decrease in missile manueverability over long distances. Upclose and dirty AV work shouldn't change. Smart AV gameplay shouldn't change at all.

Basically, what advantages tankers and pilots are willing to give up to swarms in exchange for changing the way swarms work?


At the same time, untill this thread gets a blue tag I wont worry too much about hashing out some decent numbers. Also, lets see how the new Armor hardeners play out for Incubus post hotfix Echo.

No worries. Disclaimer accepted

But CCP isn't going to take that stance, and without some form of give and take, Rattati isn't taking swarm posts seriously. Infantry are happy with current swarm meta and they far outnumber pilots. The majority of pilots, and i have done this too, have put up posts born of frustration, which got pilots nowhere. So I want to build a lasting thread where new ideas can congregate in the same vien as tanks?

So why not a bit of give and take. Swarmers can get more missiles per magazine, and use their nanohives for Av nades. They can have longer range, to keep them a bit safer from infantry. For that they also get a significant decrease in missile manueverability over long distances. Upclose and dirty AV work shouldn't change. Smart AV gameplay shouldn't change at all.

Basically, what advantages tankers and pilots are willing to give up to swarms in exchange for changing the way swarms work?


At the same time, untill this thread gets a blue tag I wont worry too much about hashing out some decent numbers. Also, lets see how the new Armor hardeners play out for Incubus post hotfix Echo.

The way i see it the SL users want there cake and to eat it aswell, ADS/DS pilots want lock on warnings and countermeasures, ground vehicles would like it to actually hit cover and stop following around corners. SL users want status quo, really you should ask them what they are willing to give up since pilots cannot really give up anything, vehicles are at a bare minimum as it is and even if they were taken out of the game really nothing would change.

^^ This

Concept: "Laser-Guided Projectile"

Summary
A mini-game with a finite duration, meaningful interplay and clear victory conditions.

Perspective - Projectile
You are single ball of brilliant white light, bright as any flare and visible to all on the battlefield. Your origin is the Swarm Launcher, whose operator now lases your destination with sweaty palms, hoping against hope to not get sniped in the face. Your destination is the target vehicle locked and currently lased by said operator. Should your operator die or lose laser lock while you're in flight, you will fail and fizzle. Should your operator have fired you from too great a range from your target, you will run out of fuel and fizzle. Should your target defeat laser lock by breaking line-of-sight with your operator, you will immediately fizzle. But should you reach your target, you will assuredly destroy that target and engulf anything around it in glorious flash of awesome destruction.

Perspective - Pilot
Incoming Missile flashes at the top of your screen; a high-pitched ring squeals in your headset and the headsets of any occupants in your vehicle. Over the course of the next several seconds, you will either succeed in scrubbing a missile, or you will be reduced to scrap while trying. A bright white orb is accelerating toward you. It has limited fuel, and you think you might be able to outrun it. Your sniper on the ground reports that he spotted the launch and might be able to get a bead on the swarmer. But you have a good idea where it came from, and you know that you have absolute odds if you can put a structure or terrain between the orb's source and your craft. You opt for the absolute option, and when the high-pitch ring and flashing lights fade you know the very moment you succeed.

Perspective - Swarmer
You've found a suitable position with clear vantage of your target. You've surveyed your surroundings and you're reasonably confident that no hostiles are nearby. You've chosen a position which you believe to be shielded from hostile sniper fire. You wait for your target to distance himself from nearby cover. You only get one shot, and over the next several seconds, you're going to risk all on that one shot. You fire. Your position has been divulged to all. The seconds tick by, and there you must remain, perfectly still, sniper bait, holding your breath, all the while your target locked in your sights. He knew the moment you fired, and now he races toward a structure with hopes to evade. You track him carefully and steadily. If you lose your laser lock, you lose the missile. But if you guide that missile into your target before it runs out of fuel, your missile is guaranteed to vaporize the target and everything in its vicinity. The fireworks will be awesome.

---

Swarm Variables
Acceleration (m/s^2) - Swarm Proficiency, +5% per level
Top Speed (m/s) - Swarm Operation, +5% per level
Fuel / Flight Time (sec) - PRO > ADV > STD > MLT
Ammo - 1 clip / 5 reserve +1 per level of Swarm Ammo
Range - No limitations other than fuel

Balancing
If it appears that Pilots are always scrubbing missiles, increase missile acceleration and top speed. If it appears that Swarmers are always scrapping Pilots, decrease missile acceleration and top speed.
I like the maintaining lock, thats nice, and no firing till first volley is hit.

---

Why one projectile?
Performance.

Why a bright orb?
To address rendering concerns. Also, so everyone on the battlefield can see the mini-game play out.

Why so much damage (OHK)?
To reward skill and to satisfy risk / reward.

Why does a swarmer have to maintain target lock?
To reward skill and to satisfy risk / reward.

Can a MLT Swarm Launcher OHK my ADS?
Absolutely. But he'll have to be pretty close due to fuel limitations.

Can a MLT Dropship scrub a Proto Missile?
Absolutely. Just break line of sight with missile origin.

Why vaporize surroundings?
To prevent last-minute bailouts and provide more meaningful kill/spawn data.

I like the maintain lock idea.

Taking this issue back from the Hotfix Echo thread.
Basically a Brainstorm thread. Leave all of your emotions out of it. I don't care about the time an ADS blapped your proto suit, and i don't care how quickly swarms ganked your Tank. The "one time in band camp" style of posting has gotten nothing done, and got the topic dropped like a hot potato by the devs.