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Greiv Rabbah
M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command
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Posted - 2015.03.07 18:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:It isn't going to happen any time soon, seeing as we most likely don't have the models or AI ready for it, which means it simply won't come about until CCP really gives a **** and starts putting real assets towards Dust.
hahahaahahahahaa
oh boy you want me to blow up this thread eh? you want proof of models or an explanation why the ai is all there and just needs to be put together a tiny bit? or you want proof that the models not only exist but are already rigged? or lore explanation for how dust514 in-universe can not exist without drone battle pve?
tell me where to start ill be on it like stink on a durian
"More specifically it won't happen on PS3."
why? barring BS about assets that already exist or hardware limitations that are well far from tapped, please tell why not when all the pieces are there? there is no reason to spend a week of development time taking the requisite parts and building it into something that will make people want to spend money on it and bring back hundreds or thousands of bittervets?
Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
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Greiv Rabbah
M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command
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Posted - 2015.03.07 23:06:00 -
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Pokey Dravon wrote:Greiv Rabbah wrote:
why? barring BS about assets that already exist or hardware limitations that are well far from tapped, please tell why not when all the pieces are there? there is no reason to spend a week of development time taking the requisite parts and building it into something that will make people want to spend money on it and bring back hundreds or thousands of bittervets/recruits?
Because I've spoken to the CPM about this sort of thing on Biomassed, and last time I checked they are a bit more in touch with the current development plans and capabilities than you are.
i'm not going to say you're wrong, but i know for certain (because i happen to know a little bit about game programming somehow, not that its my career or anything...) that using the models shown at eve fanfest 2013, which in the original trailer were clearly shown to have already been rigged, you can slightly modify the ai being used for RDV to send drones after a spot where a large drone saw a clone(by placing an invisible OMS beacon at that point) and use the current turret ai (slightly modified to its previous super-aggressive form) to have them hunt players. they dont need to be too smart, they just need enough ai to start at a spawn point(the drone hive) which we also have seen at eve fanfest and know that it is rigged for animation and has visual effects designed for the spawn already, swarm on a location, target players that are within line of sight from that location, and attack aggressively in droves until the hive is destroyed at which point drones stop spawning and start acting on their own simply attacking anyone they see without needing a set point to move to. until theyre all cleared out, that is, at which point the proposed game mode would end and you would return to your mercs quarters.
all of this can be done using currently existing game mechanics and art assets.
on the ps3.
in fact, i could do it myself if i had access to the assets in question and the backend of the game.
in fact, i would beg for the chance to do so.
in fact, i would beg for the chance to work with CCP on dust at all, in any capacity.
aside from just "CCP has decided not to do it", can you point out any flaw in my logic or reasoning why this couldnt or shouldnt be done within a weeks time?
for that matter, can i get a blue tag on this one? yesterday i asked if rattati could spare a few minutes to respond to a query from a player who struggled to voice a concern about hotfix echo despite not knowing english, and he did. maybe itll work a second time? 
Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
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Greiv Rabbah
M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command
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174
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Posted - 2015.03.07 23:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
JARREL THOMAS wrote:PVE would be great, but balance is needed before anthing else balancing gameplay 1st develop, release, and balance PVE 2nd.
nobody will ever be 100% satisfied with the balance in this game, and everybody cries nerf until things get so broken they simply get scrapped and removed from the game.
beware the nerfvalanche.
the best thing to do is stop crying for the game to be balanced on your impressions which are limited by lack of access to the hard statistics of gameplay, and instead ask for development to resume.
this game has been quagmired by people crying that nothings balanced.
you want the game to die, fine.
i really dont and it seems like its sort of in development limbo because everytime they start developing people complain that they need to quit developing and get back to tweaking.
i'm not paying them to tweak the game until they run out of funding and shut the game down,
i'm paying them in the hopes that theyll continue development and make this something that i can show my recruits and say
"see? its not perfect(no game is) but its playable and its fun"
why is everybody so opposed to that?
Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
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Greiv Rabbah
M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command
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174
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Posted - 2015.03.07 23:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Wait you're saying you want to base Drones off of the same AI that causes my vehicles to crash and burn into a building before they even touch the ground?
Easiest PvE mode ever. The drones will just kill themselves!
they dont need to be dropped. i'm just saying take the route planning from the RDV.
at present, the RDV starts from a defined point and takes the shortest route it can find to the OMS beacon.
from that point, the turret targeting AI can take over and the drone can attack anybody it "sees"
and at this point, nobody cares if the pve game mode is perfect when it comes out, we just want to finally have the first thing we were shown about this game: drone battles
Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
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Greiv Rabbah
M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command
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Posted - 2015.03.07 23:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Greiv Rabbah wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:It isn't going to happen any time soon, seeing as we most likely don't have the models or AI ready for it, which means it simply won't come about until CCP really gives a **** and starts putting real assets towards Dust. hahahaahahahahaa oh boy you want me to blow up this thread eh? you want proof of models or an explanation why the ai is all there and just needs to be put together a tiny bit? or you want proof that the models not only exist but are already rigged? or lore explanation for how dust514 in-universe can not exist without drone battle pve? tell me where to start ill be on it like stink on a durian Seeing as you apparently have proof, I'll be waiting.
Proof of models via eve fanfest 2013
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100006930796357&sk=photos&collection_token=100006930796357%3A2305272732%3A69&set=a.1592668334307511.1073741829.100006930796357&type=3
explanation why the ai is all there is above, posted in response to Pokey.
EVE Dust 514: Gathering Forces trailer (Proof of drone models being rigged)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xnt1tTlnqfY
lore explanation how Dust 514 cannot exist without drone battle PVE
http://dust514.com/media/fiction/
The implants used in the templar program to produce Dust mercs were created using Sleeper tachnology.
The relics that were used to make the implants were designed to store the consciousness of the sleeper race.
The implants themselves house fragmented Sleeper consciousness because of this.
The drones activated in response to the implants being used.
They're trying to reclaim what they were designed to defend.
They will hunt us until every last implant is reclaimed.
Without the implants, we would not be mercenaries.
Without the implants, they would not have become active.
Since the implants were made from relics taken from the Sleeper ruins, it is not possible that the drones did not become active.
In-universe, it is impossible that the Sleeper drones aren't out there, seeking us, hunting us.
i think that covers most things relevant to creating a PVE game mode. let me know if anything else is needed
(as a player. its not like i can just make a gamemode with drones unless CCP wants to hire me on and ask me to do so)
Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
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Greiv Rabbah
M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command
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Posted - 2015.03.08 00:03:00 -
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Pokey Dravon wrote:Greiv Rabbah wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Wait you're saying you want to base Drones off of the same AI that causes my vehicles to crash and burn into a building before they even touch the ground?
Easiest PvE mode ever. The drones will just kill themselves! they dont need to be dropped. i'm just saying take the route planning from the RDV. at present, the RDV starts from a defined point and takes the shortest route it can find to the OMS beacon. from that point, the turret targeting AI can take over and the drone can attack anybody it "sees" and at this point, nobody cares if the pve game mode is perfect when it comes out, we just want to finally have the first thing we were shown about this game: drone battles *facepalm* And I'm saying that the RDV route planning is freaking awful. Besides there is more to AI than simply "find enemy and shoot at him"
yes i understand that. it was a simnplified explanation, i hope you're aware of that.
And to start with, most players would be fine if it was just "move to enemy; shoot at enemy"
i'd be satisfied with that as a start.
do you want me to get into technical details as to how the proposed AI would function?
Its not like i can get it 100% without actually seeing the backend code for Dust 514.
and its not like i can see that without working on the dev team.
Which i would love to do, as previously stated.
I also would gladly take part in the repeated tweaking until everyone (or at least CCP) decides the game is balanced enough to start adding features that were originally promised.
I would also do any kind of codemonkey work they may need.
Will work for Lo Mein.
Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
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Greiv Rabbah
M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command
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181
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Posted - 2015.03.08 00:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:We already have a player population that can only support 30 to 100 matches at any given time. Take a bunch of people out of PvP rotation for PvE and you're going to end up with even worse match making issues.
no, what we'll end up with is at least a doubled playerbase practically overnight. This was one of the first things we were shown for Dust 514, and it still hasnt happened. Half of the Gathering Forces trailer still hasnt happened. and a bit of what was included has since been removed.
Partly due to the nerfvalanche which threatens to consume dust 514
Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
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Greiv Rabbah
M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command
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Posted - 2015.03.08 00:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Raven Harkonen wrote:You're talking about Sleppers drones but why should we have only this kind of enemy?
Alien primitive lifeform or zombie clones ? (made by a Jove faction?)
The most likely infantry explanation for PVE would be pirate factions hiding out on bases on the planets. This is doable for future PVE, but the easiest starting point will be the drones, as most of the work is already done. From the video, we can see that anti infantry weaponry is effective against the small drones, while light AV (Mass Driver in the above example) is effective against the medium drones. Heavy AV (Forge Gun is the only one that exists at the moment) apears to be required in to take down the large drones
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Greiv Rabbah
M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command
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Posted - 2015.03.08 00:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Raven Harkonen wrote:Greiv Rabbah wrote:Raven Harkonen wrote:You're talking about Sleppers drones but why should we have only this kind of enemy?
Alien primitive lifeform or zombie clones ? (made by a Jove faction?)
The most likely infantry explanation for PVE would be pirate factions hiding out on bases on the planets. This is doable for future PVE, but the easiest starting point will be the drones, as most of the work is already done. From the video, we can see that anti infantry weaponry is effective against the small drones, while light AV (Mass Driver in the above example) is effective against the medium drones. Heavy AV (Forge Gun is the only one that exists at the moment) apears to be required in to take down the large drones Yeah it could stimulate the apprenticeship of new player to learn them the game mecanics and teqamplay ^^ Scout can also be usefull for putting RE on them or DU behind! and also for the faction NPC pirates could open many good scenarios :)
Exactly. This could fuel the growth of the game on a massive scale.
This would spark new interest in the game.
This would let everyone know CCP cares about their players and seeks to fulfill the promises of old.
This would bring veteran players back.
This would bring new players into the game.
This would make Dust 514 more financially viable.
This would provide a more well defined role for vehicle gameplay.
This could give CCP a reason to add the missing vehicles.
This would give us something other than each other to test features against.
This would provide a stable platform on which to base balancing passes without it all being "X class killed me, NERF them"
This could defeat the nerfvalanche.
This would attract players from competing games.
This could fix the entire game.
All it takes is one first step.
All it takes is a very basic player-versus-drone gamemode that just needs to be good enough for a first step.
It can be refined and tweaked afterward.
It would provide better statistics for balancing purposes.
It would strengthen the community and draw out the lifespan of this game.
the only reason i've been given why not is "the RDV ai is awful"
This suggestion provides a reason and a way to improve that.
@Pokey,
please keep in mind that the RDV is not intended as an AI based vehicle. it stands for Rapid Deployment Vehicle, although many players dont know this by now and call it a Remote Deployment Vehicle.
Just as many players do not know that OB stands for Orbital Barrage, and so even in factional warfare people call them Warbarge Strikes
This could be used to repurpose that ai, and perhaps at some point when player owned MCCs exist, player owned RDVs can exist.
and then a MCC pilot could fly in the RDV for you and you would never have vehicles wrecked by a bad AI again
The game can be much more than it is. even without jumping ship and moving on to a different platform, Dust 514 can become the game we all dreamed of.
That is why i dont forget.
That is why i will never forget
Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
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Greiv Rabbah
M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command
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185
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Posted - 2015.03.08 01:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
Raven Harkonen wrote:You made me c0m XDDDDDDDD  erm, that's sexual harassment. Please remove that.
Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
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Greiv Rabbah
M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command
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Posted - 2015.03.08 03:58:00 -
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Pokey Dravon wrote:Greiv Rabbah wrote:
That is why i dont forget.
That is why i will never forget
*rolls eyes* I would enjoy PVE as much as the next guy, but you're being a little overdramatic and oversimplifying the actual development.
I'm not being overdramatic. I believe, and so does everyone I've talked to, that it would have that much of an impact in this game.
And I'm not trying to oversimplify it, as I said before I'm just trying to put it in words that aren't too technical. You may understand how ai programming works, but the average person who may visit this thread probably doesnt. Something simple can be slapped together with what we already have to make a new game mode based on ambush featuring drone battles, and everybody wants it to happen, so seriously, why not?
I am not one to downplay the complexity of what CCP does OR how difficult developing for ps3 is. I'm one of those that points out how the cell be was designed to be incredibly difficult to program for it is(by design FYI) and applaud ccp not only for the massive project theyve decided to undertake but the amount of work theyve managed to do and the growth theyve managed to achieve in terms of ps3 development in a rather short time frame.
But we're talking about something that us honestly feasible using current game mechanics and assets that are already developed
Okay maybe a little overdramatic, but everybody's talking "nerf this, remove that" and I'm really getting stressed by it.
Nerfvalanche is a real thing and I want to see this game grow, not dwindle.
And idk maybe I'm always a little overdramatic. I am very devoted to the success of this game. Ppl don't know.
Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
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Greiv Rabbah
M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command
Lokun Listamenn
189
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Posted - 2015.03.08 07:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:
People may not fully understand how AI programming works, but they've played enough PvE games to understand how it is supposed to play, and simply "slapping something together" is not going to deliver a proper product to meet people's expectations. it would just created a clearly half-assed product, people would come back saying "yay PvE!" and then quickly say "Well this is really ******" and leave again.
Sorry but I would rather starve than eat a pile of ****.
Just was talking about a starting point, trying to demonstrate that the #1 most demanded feature for this game is not only possible, its feasible.
I'd like to try and argue my point but I'm already worn out and in a bad mood so you win. Idgaf right now
Sebiestor scout, MTAC pilot, Merc w/ a face
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