Yep. Unfit LAVs (especially Sagas) will pop from any of the following.

1 Volley of Swarms

1 Blast from a Forge Gun

1 AV Grenade

1 Proxy Mine

1 Flux Grenade + Breach Mass Driver round

1 Assault HMG burst

It's going to be downright comical.

To be fair, it's more like 2 of all the above. But come on, even throwaway transport LAV shouldn't be one-shot by everything.

To be fair, it's more like 2 of all the above. But come on, even throwaway transport LAV shouldn't be one-shot by everything.

Yes they should. Because either you're using some free BPO LAV with nothing on it or you're using a militia LAV

In either case you should be popped.


if I'm using a Unfitted shield based dropsuit should I complain when I get one-two shotted by a charged scrambler shot?

Nope.

All this does is reward Dedicated LAV drivers/gunners with more fitting space and punish those BPO LAV guys that just used it as free transport.


You guys can still have free transport of course, but you'll get what you pay for.

I can't wait to fit my Methana out.

The planned changes for LAVs in HF: Echo are terrible, plain and simple. It's a terrible solution to a problem that doesn't exist which will also ruin LAVs for those of us who actually try to use them as ASSAULT vehicles.

Look at these fits:

Methana

With the post-Echo numbers the EHP comes to 325/2240. The armor doesn't even come back to the pre-nerf value, and it's impossible to fit a better plate even with a basic light repair and max fitting. The two lows also makes it impossible to fit a fitting mod and a respectable tank. This is also more ehp than using a new armor hardener (2042ehp), since the other slot needs to be a repairer.

Saga

Post-Echo EHP comes to 1607/450 (hey, at least it made it over the pre-nerf base). I really don't know what else to say about it. It's just too weak to justify using at all. It's impossible to fit a larger extender even without a turret. The only way it could possible be better is by using the Saga II and its built-in hardener, but even then it's far inferior to the pre-nerf version.

These are as good as they gets. I really can't see any way to improve on them, yet they're terrible. But hey, at least LAV's scan range will almost be equal to that of virtually every dropsuit so we can do "recon" within sidearm range.

Here's how to fix the LAV "problem" (that doesn't really exist):

Leave STD LAVs ALONE (if anything they need a buff: +1 racial slot and more fitting); nerf BPO LAVs. Removed the high and low slots of BPO LAVs, making them literally disposable transport vehicles with enough tank to not be destroyed by every gust of wind that hits them.

If the planned changes actually go through, LAVs will pretty much be deader than they are now, which I kind of find hard to imagine.

Its just stupid. Av grenade count goes back up to 3 while LAV's are getting their HP cut in half. Even with the added fitting bonus we will never get over it then pre nerf. With 3 AV grenades there is no excuse to not be aible to pop a LAV that gets close. And then we have the proxy mine buff where the bandwith goes from 2>1. So we will see more of those aswell.

And do i get it righ that LAV's will still cost the same? Cause with those HP numbers i would only be willing to pay 3000 ISK for a saga/methana hull.

Its just stupid. Av grenade count goes back up to 3 while LAV's are getting their HP cut in half. Even with the added fitting bonus we will never get over it then pre nerf. With 3 AV grenades there is no excuse to not be aible to pop a LAV that gets close. And then we have the proxy mine buff where the bandwith goes from 2>1. So we will see more of those aswell.

And do i get it righ that LAV's will still cost the same? Cause with those HP numbers i would only be willing to pay 3000 ISK for a saga/methana hull.

GǪ.Steady as she goes, fellow mercs.

You will go through an adjustment period during which you'll get "popped" relentlessly, out of shear stubbornness to change.



IF you've only been playing Dust within the last 14 months or so, you haven't had the chance to experience Lavs on the map in the way players around the time of the initial game-release used to use them.
Previously there used to be enough VARIANTS of the Lav, and enough module TYPES, that it just naturally encouraged players to come up with tactically-lethal performance fit-outs and customized purposes for the vehicle.

...It was only after those cool modules and extra variants were taken away, that players fell into the mindset that pretty much the ONLY ways to use a Lav are Rat-Patrol Assault, Murder Taxi, and Improvised Explosives Vehicle.

Just the same way that the team-data change to vehicle scanners almost immediately added "Sweep-n-Scan Vehicle" to the list of Lav-uses, the adjustments to Lavs in this Hotfix are going to start returning more resourceful options to the table, and you're going to start surprising opponents with unexpectedly hard-to-stop Lav techniques.

GǪ.Well, SOME of you are, anyway. (The others among you, will maybe change careers and become just turret gunners and navigators).

To be fair, it's more like 2 of all the above. But come on, even throwaway transport LAV shouldn't be one-shot by everything.

GǪ.Steady as she goes, fellow mercs.

You will go through an adjustment period during which you'll get "popped" relentlessly, out of shear stubbornness to change.



IF you've only been playing Dust within the last 14 months or so, you haven't had the chance to experience Lavs on the map in the way players around the time of the initial game-release used to use them.
Previously there used to be enough VARIANTS of the Lav, and enough module TYPES, that it just naturally encouraged players to come up with tactically-lethal performance fit-outs and customized purposes for the vehicle.

...It was only after those cool modules and extra variants were taken away, that players fell into the mindset that pretty much the ONLY ways to use a Lav are Rat-Patrol Assault, Murder Taxi, and Improvised Explosives Vehicle.

Just the same way that the team-data change to vehicle scanners almost immediately added "Sweep-n-Scan Vehicle" to the list of Lav-uses, the adjustments to Lavs in this Hotfix are going to start returning more resourceful options to the table, and you're going to start surprising opponents with unexpectedly hard-to-stop Lav techniques.

GǪ.Well, SOME of you are, anyway. (The others among you, will maybe change careers and become just turret gunners and navigators).

Yes they should. Because either you're using some free BPO LAV with nothing on it or you're using a militia LAV

In either case you should be popped.


if I'm using a Unfitted shield based dropsuit should I complain when I get one-two shotted by a charged scrambler shot?

Nope.

All this does is reward Dedicated LAV drivers/gunners with more fitting space and punish those BPO LAV guys that just used it as free transport.


You guys can still have free transport of course, but you'll get what you pay for.

I can't wait to fit my Methana out.

Yes they should. Because either you're using some free BPO LAV with nothing on it or you're using a militia LAV

In either case you should be popped.


if I'm using a Unfitted shield based dropsuit should I complain when I get one-two shotted by a charged scrambler shot?

Nope.

All this does is reward Dedicated LAV drivers/gunners with more fitting space and punish those BPO LAV guys that just used it as free transport.


You guys can still have free transport of course, but you'll get what you pay for.

I can't wait to fit my Methana out.

Unfit LAVs should pop about as quickly as an unfit dropsuit, which is nearly instantaneously.

The LAVs in general need some work, likely more slots and fitting, but reducing the base HP is the perfect way to make unfit LAVs as squishy as they should be, and the increased fitting is a quick stopgap to compensate for the reduced HP until a proper balance pass can be made.

In case you haven't noticed, you won't be able to make a decent Methana fit. Even using max skills, it's impossible to even get back to its previous ehp and fit a repairer and a decent turret. Unless you want to argue that a maxed LAV should only fit a basic turret and light repairer with an empty high slot just to get back to precious up levels, this is going to kill your Methana.

Yes they should. Because either you're using some free BPO LAV with nothing on it or you're using a militia LAV

In either case you should be popped.


if I'm using a Unfitted shield based dropsuit should I complain when I get one-two shotted by a charged scrambler shot?

Nope.

All this does is reward Dedicated LAV drivers/gunners with more fitting space and punish those BPO LAV guys that just used it as free transport.


You guys can still have free transport of course, but you'll get what you pay for.

I can't wait to fit my Methana out.

What I've seen here so far:
- Unfit LAVs are going to suffer badly.
- Fit LAVs are going to stay mostly the same.
- PLCs and AV grenades are going to receive a buff each.

I enjoy using LAVs, but I haven't arrived at the conclusion that LAVs are going to stop being a thing yet. Murdertaxis are going to become much more expensive and LAV drivers will need to keep a bit more of a distance to what they're trying to kill - about 30 m should do the trick, but otherwise I don't see an issue here.

What I've seen here so far:
- Unfit LAVs are going to suffer badly.
- Fit LAVs are going to stay mostly the same.
- PLCs and AV grenades are going to receive a buff each.

I enjoy using LAVs, but I haven't arrived at the conclusion that LAVs are going to stop being a thing yet. Murdertaxis are going to become much more expensive and LAV drivers will need to keep a bit more of a distance to what they're trying to kill - about 30 m should do the trick, but otherwise I don't see an issue here.