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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
888
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Posted - 2015.03.03 13:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
I put together speed tanked fits, ADV Assaults, with enh kincats. The goal was to compare the fits of the same tier and see what i could get out of them. They are fit for max speed, if fitting does not allow for kin cat then a cardiac reg, if not that then a Pg module to make up the missing slot.
All fits have enhanced shields in the highs. All suits have a basic racial side arm, basic grenade, but only one could fit a proto rifle to it.The rest only had fitting space for a BK.42 Adv combat rifle
Min Assault :3/3 slot count, 3 enh shields, 2 kin cats, 1 cardiac regulator
427 shields
237 Armor
9.04 sprint
total ehp: 664
Gal Assault: 2/4 layout 2 enh sheilds 3 kin cats, 1 PG upgrade (there was only room for a Pg upgrade after 3 kincats)
304 shields
344 armor
8.93 sprint
total ehp: 648
Duvolle assault rifle (or proto weapon of choice)
Caldari Assault : 4/2 layout, 3 enh shields, 1 basic energizer, 2 kincats
502 shields
194 armor
8.53 sprint
total ehp: 696
Amarr Assault: 2/4 layout 2 shields, 3 kin cats, 1 cardiac regulator
291 shields
394 Armor
8.57 sprint
total ehp: 685
Findings:
The minmatar and the gallente are the fastest by a good margin.
Caldari and the Amarr have the most eHP speed tanked, are still very slow in a foot race, but have enough eHP to be viable vs non speed tanked suits.
The gallente has the lowest eHP can carry the most powerful weapons. The only suit that can use proto weapons fully speed tanked.
The minmatar only loses half of its eHP tanking style when fit for speed. Even so the gallente can nearly keep up with it in terms of pace, and far surpass the minmatar in terms of firepower, even after using none of its low slots for armor or repairs.
Verdict: Minmatar has some advantage, it is the speedy assault, and at first glance seems powerful. Yet the gallente can do it nearly as well and carry alot more firepower, and has higher regen.
My own pro minmatar bias aside, i do not think the numbers show that the suit is OP. What they do show is that if you want a fast suit, the minmatar is the fastest by a small margin, and is more practical than running a proto rifle ona low ehp Gallente. Nonetheless an ammar with ZERO armor moduls still has more HP. A caldari suit loses almost none of its play style and still keeps a good bit of speed, and healthy enough dose of shields.
Next up will be pure eHP stacking.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
891
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Posted - 2015.03.03 14:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Minmatar also has the combat rifle, which is still extremely powerful in conjunction with the suit bonus, and unlike the scrambler rifle, the assault variant is worthwhile, making it viable in PC far more than the Amarr Assault, which suffers horrendously through PC lag.
You also fail to mention the walk and strafe speeds of the suits - these are actually just as important, if not more than the sprint speeds - the strafing is the real killer.
and lastly, the ADV fittings don't necessarily prove anything; suit utility expands hugely upon reaching the PRO tier, and for this reason no-one seriously goes into a PC with suboptimal grades of equipment; what with the context for this comparison being the release of the PC kill totals, I think this is an important thing to note.
All of them have the ADV combat rifle because it takes the least fitting space of all the rifles, so there is no weapon bias, except the gallente. I put a duvolle on it because thas its racial weapon. You could throw on a proto combat rifle if you wish. I have a hard time beliving that certain suits suffer from more lag than others, this would not be a Pc specific issue but found throughout the entire game.
Strafe speed, i've seen all of the suits strafe, and its related to high speed suits for sure. I've not seen a quantifibale way to acout for strafe speed, since its all about cricle strafing.
I used the ADV suits because they are the most common tier in the game, and i use all of the ADV assault suits. This isn't a PC meta commentary, just dust 514 meta in a general sense. A lot of players from different game modes have been saying the min assault is OP for one reason or another. Speed being the most common complaint, so here it is. How fast suits can move at what amount of eHP.
If there is one distinct advatage i would also give to the Min assault is dual tanking saves it in many cricumstances. That scrambler did +20% vs my shileds but -20% when it hits my armor, giving me extra time. Cal Rail rifles do - 10% from long range when they hit my shileds so i have more time to react. ARs lose -10% when they hit my armor giveing time to escape as well. Projectile weapons s the same thing except -15% helping me escape heavies.
These are reasons why it tougher to kill a min assault with your weapon of choice. Where you would have melted a Gal Assault with a rail, or nuked a cal assaul witha scrambler, min assaults have the defense fiting necessary to survive and live another day. Not because of either hit box, or simply just speed.Though speed helps. Alot.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
897
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Posted - 2015.03.04 07:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Templar XIII wrote:[
My amarr...
.
Comparing two suits designed to be polar opposites, how could not you expect a massive difference in speed or regen? Gallente have a massive armor regen advantage over the caldari, the caldari has a massive shield recharge over the gallente.
The minmatar being faster than the amarr and better shield regen and the amarr has the ability to stack tons of armor and damage. Makes sense. Like i said, i run the amarr assault too, and its far from being a victim 1v1 vs minmatar.
2 damage mods, and 982 hp on an adv suit. , change damage mods for shield extenders and get 1082 HP, or i could have it rep at 20 hp a second and still have 817 hp.
You have to compare the min assault to all of the suits, not just one of them.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
897
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Posted - 2015.03.04 18:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:now add that the minamatar assault bonus gives almost 200 rounds of ammo between the acr and smgs before reloading and it can strafe and hose down enemies with ease. minmatar also has highest movement speed of any assault class. Don't forget the AM Scout!
Yeah i don't like the idea of the amarr scout competeing with the min assault for speed. But i would mch rather buff the amarr scout speed.
About highest movement speed, thats in the design philosphy of the suit. What i wanted to know about the speed specifically is by how large an advantage the min assault has over the other assault suits.
The numbers show that its not by a large enough margin (.11 M/S) to be OP vs a gallente speed tank. In terms of of weapons the adv gallente assault can fit anything proto. I have not compared the proto suits, so the fitting meta will probably allow all of the suits to fit higher tier weapons. At the ADV tier, Gallente has the advantage interms of firepower.
It has the Speed advantage over the speed tanked caldari, but caldari has the HP Advantage. Even taking the ACR ino account, vs a caldari the ACR does -15% damage. Mabe the speed kills and maybe it doesnt.
Min Assault VS the speed tanked amarr the amarr has only a slight eHP advantage and is very disadvataged against the Min Assault's speed and weapons. That being said, we are removing the amarr's main tank and trying to shoehorn it into a role that doesn't suit it.
What i want to get at is, is the suit objectively overpowered? Or Simply good at what it does? Or is it simply versatile enough to make up for its percieved weakness? You might be fighting a shield+ speed tanked min assault one second, a tanked min assault the next, an armor+damage mod the next after that.
When Rattati takes the inevitable good hard look at the suit for balance issues ( because PC kills) i would rather say here is something specific to adjust to it, rather than a hodgepdge of feelings, emotion, and anecdotal statements.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
903
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Posted - 2015.03.05 03:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Well, i've been going over what changes to the minmatar dropsuits, and all of the assault dropsuits changes since hotfix charlie.
Slot lay out changed for 5-2 at proto to a 4-4 at proto. 100 hp bonus across the board. PG and CPU buffs across the board. I haven't found any references to assault speed buffs yet. The old slot layout did not allow for stacking kincats, simply not enough PG or slots. Now with an extra slot and PG buff, you can put more kincats on them to get them up to a higher sprint speed.
That being said, base speed stats haven't changed so a non speed tanked minmatar now is the still same speed as before hotfix charlie.
The min assault hasnt been declared OP since hotfix charlie droped, but only since 1.9, when the scout meta changed.
The min assault ought to be versatile enough to survive as a shield tank, or with an armor tank. Surviving with a shield tank fress up low slots for things like kincats.
Basically the major difference between peoples perception in OP vs Up is the min assaults ability to reasonably stack kincats and cardiac regulators, this is what gets it up to low scout speeds, not its base speed stat. It can do this better than the other assualt suits. Also, the players that used scouts as assault light suits are treating it like a heavy scout suit.
On the hitbox: Until somebody show me evidence of the min assault's hitbox being changed, its something i have a hard time believing. I've run the min assault for a long time, never seen hit detection affect me positivley. In fact everything that breathed in my direction killed me. I don't see where the devs made any changes to it.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
908
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Posted - 2015.03.06 17:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:Meh, lots of people like Min assault due to the higher speed and slot layout -- not just the bonus to CR.
Sure some will switch, but I'm willing to bet the majority of ASCR users will just be a lot of Regular SCR users who switched over and heavys who want to point defense and can't do so as well from the upcoming HMG nerf.
The increase of Amarr brick tanked suits defending like heavies will be really interesting though!
Acually this i like. Since the Min is all about speed and guerrila style flank attacks, the counter should be the stalwart Imperial armored forces. The ASCR should be a rapid fire mid range weapon to counter the ACBR, and with the buff i hope it becomes that. Because in CQC the Amarr are severly UP.
Right now speed is mosly exploited to dance out in the open to dodge bulles rather than using mobility to quickly get to a better firing position. If backpedal speed impacts dancing, then we might see a change of heart about the communities perceptions of the min assualt.
Like the caldari scout hitbox: thread after thread was made about it, but since the ewar changes (there have been zero hitbox changes) the forums completley forgot about their boogeyman.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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