DUST Search - CPM Input : Pilot Suits

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

Pokey Dravon wrote:

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

Re: LAVs and low HP pilots

Link modules are going to be usable by any class that can fit it (if we make them equipment this will bar the sentinel) ; just anyone else will be less efficient at it. This was a conscious decision against the LAV as having 3 links on those can make an LAV very powerful. By weakening the operator link capabilities to around 1 link module if you want a survivable operator is the desired effect and check balance. You can have a survivable operator but you will have fewer links, If you want more links you are going to have a weaker operator. LAVs have strong mobility which is a very powerful survival tool in the current and likely future metas.

High mobility unless you slow down to perform the function of the vehicle, such as Logistics repping. A dead pilot is a useless one, and if its SO easy to pop a pilot out of an LAV, it'll reach a point where using a pilot is pointless because you're dying too quickly from enemy fire that may not even be focused. Even a tanked medium suit can be dropped quickly out of the drivers seat, imagine how awful it'll be with a light frame with even less HP than a scout.

There needs to be something to help protect pilots, either via some bonus to reduce incoming damage or some other metric.

The idea is that LAVs would benefit from fewer links than a vehicle that cannot get away as easily; remember this is about cool-downs and likely cool-down links used for the LAV are navigation and sensors. Also there is no guarantee we may see the return of a logistics LAV or a scout lav. Those roles could easily get shifted to other hulls (the mavs for example)


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Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5120	Posted - 2015.03.02 22:08:00 - [1] - Quote I'll keep this concise even though the thread will undoubtedly derail before page 3. Suit must be weak outside of a vehicle, but not so weak that a pilot suit in an LAV is easily shot out. Requiring a pilot suit to pilot DOES restrict the freedom of the game, and should be avoided like the plague. Sidearm only is a given. No grenades. I'm against any sort of equipment. People will complain that they need a repair tool but native armor repair resolves this need. Others will claim they need uplinks, but anything that happens outside of a vehicle is not the role of the Pilot suit, dropping uplinks included. The act of dropping uplinks is is NOT part of the vehicle role, even if a vehicle is used to get to the drop location. Incidentally, mCRUs need to be easier fit/more accessible as well as have a distinct advantage over Uplinks. Note that the pilot doesn't HAVE to be a Light Frame, its an obvious choice since Light frames lack a secondary specialist frame, but it really doesn't HAVE to be one if balance causes issues. Suit must have Link Modules which are fit to the suit and boost either the vehicle or the modules on the vehicle. Benefit from links needs to be fairly small with no downside as to avoid excessive power creep, and avoid issue where non-pilot suit driven vehicles become non-viable. Benefit can be larger if an associated downside is attached to it, as the module still provides a positive benefit overall but a downgrade in another aspect of the vehicle. Somewhat like Rigs, or even Shield Rechargers vs Shield Energizers. Role Bonus for Pilot suit should be fitting reduction to Link Modules, as well as a generic benefit (without any sort of downside) which will be effective for any vehicle (Dropship, HAV, LAV) and racial bonuses should be useful for any vehicle within that race (In other words avoid bonuses which would only be useful to specific races/hull types) Consider tying Link Module skills to existing vehicle skills (For example Vehicle Armor Plate Modules and Armor Plate Link Modules unlocked via the same skill) as to avoid excessive SP cost in comparison to other non-Pilot roles. Cost of Suits/Modules needs to be carefully looked at, as the suit will likely die with the vehicle and excessively expensive suits on top of the vehicle cost may make them cost prohibitive in many situations. You can't balance with ISK, so don't go too crazy with the cost and make it too painful to die. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5121	Posted - 2015.03.02 22:39:00 - [2] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Why, ooc, is "sidearm only" a given? If the frame is designed properly type/stat/bonus-wise is having an AR really being predicted as a being a problem? In my experience from playing as a Logi, being one weapon by itself has a huge impact on battlefield survivability. Well as I stated, the pilot should be nearly useless outside of its vehicle. Anything that happens outside of the vehicle is not the role of the pilot, so I see no reason why they should have more than a sidearm. Additionally from my understanding, even modern tankers in the real world rarely carry what you would consider a "primary weapon" and tend to have PDWs, such as pistols and SMGs because they are small and compact and fit will inside the cramped quarters of a tank. As for the Logi example, I feel that Logis do have some limited combat role in the form of fire support, or indirect combat support (The Mass Driver is an awesome example of this). As such I feel that it makes sense they have a primary weapon. I do not feel that the Pilot shares this sort of role, as it is supposed to be in a vehicle and not running around on foot. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5121	Posted - 2015.03.02 22:57:00 - [3] - Quote Haerr wrote: Edit: Also no getting in or out for pilots. Think of it as the Dust equivalent of Eve capsules (pods, eggs what ever you want to call them) Actually its quite easy to get out of your ship, the capsules can be ejected with the click of a button. Typically there is rarely a reason to do this, as the capsule really can't do anything. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5123	Posted - 2015.03.03 00:10:00 - [4] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Countermeasure/early warning systems for Pilot Suits tho might work for folks. Ehhhh a Pilot suit shouldnt be able to do anything that a Non-pilot can't. Do things better? Totally, but I wouldn't give features exclusively to the pilot. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5125	Posted - 2015.03.03 00:49:00 - [5] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Countermeasure/early warning systems for Pilot Suits tho might work for folks. Ehhhh a Pilot suit shouldnt be able to do anything that a Non-pilot can't. Do things better? Totally, but I wouldn't give features exclusively to the pilot. If modules exists for Pilot suits, they should be pilot suit exclusive. Otherwise, no point. That's not what I mean. I mean I wouldn't make vehicle features exclusive to the Pilot suit, for example "You can only use a Flare Launcher if you're in a pilot suit" EDIT: To clarify. Link Modules should be unique to the pilot, but those link modules should not unlock features that you HAV to use a link modules to unlock. They should simply improve what the vehicle is already doing, Pilot or not. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5126	Posted - 2015.03.03 01:09:00 - [6] - Quote Reinhard Manderfelt wrote: Now, I understand that forcing people to spec into a specific suit to pilot vehicles would limit freedom, but right now, one of the most unbalanced things I've seen is Heavy Dropsuits driving HAV's, who just drive through whichever AV -setup you've got, get out and blast you to tiny, sad bits. Basically, you can't beat them IN their Tank, and you can't beat them OUT of their tank. If your concern is related to the pilot bailing out and causing issues, should you not be more focused on the bailing out part and not so much the piloting part? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5128	Posted - 2015.03.03 01:45:00 - [7] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Reinhard Manderfelt wrote: Now, I understand that forcing people to spec into a specific suit to pilot vehicles would limit freedom, but right now, one of the most unbalanced things I've seen is Heavy Dropsuits driving HAV's, who just drive through whichever AV -setup you've got, get out and blast you to tiny, sad bits. Basically, you can't beat them IN their Tank, and you can't beat them OUT of their tank. If your concern is related to the pilot bailing out and causing issues, should you not be more focused on the bailing out part and not so much the piloting part? I really hate heavies, and I really hate Heavy HAV/LAVs, but there are ways to incentivize using Pilot suits over other suits without completely eliminating their use. If vehicles are more effectively driven by a Pilot than a Heavy, you will naturally see non Pilot suit driven vehicles killed routinely by Pilot suit driven vehicles. What good is surviving once you get out of the vehicle if being in it will likely get you killed? If they create the right bonuses and incentives for wearing a Pilot suit while driving vehicles, then you will see a significant reduction of other suits piloting vehicles. Pretty much. I think if you add a mandatory timer to climb in and out of a vehicle and scale that with suit type/vehicle type it solves a lot of the issues people are having issues with. Say you're a Heavy in an HAV and **** goes sideways. Assume a 10 second timer for heavies in an HAV. If that Heavy wants to bail out of his HAV, he has to sit there for 10 seconds doing nothing. Either he's going to get killed before he gets out, or he WILL get out in time, but now the enemy HAV has had a full 10 second to rep up and help modules cool down. So by the time that heavy drags his ass out of the HAV, he's going to be looking at an enemy that's much stronger than it was 10 seconds ago. End result? That heavy will probably stay in the HAV and fight to the end, because attempting to bail out will put him at an even greater disadvantage. If you want one of the pilots perks to be the ability to bypass that timer? shrugs fine by me, they wont be able to do much aside from attempt to run away in a paperthin suit anyways. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5128	Posted - 2015.03.03 01:48:00 - [8] - Quote Brush Master wrote: I am one that believes that the pilot suit should be like a key that unlocks features on xx vehicles that other suits do not have access to in the form of vehicle equipment slots. Possible types of vehicle equipment / features Countermeasures to break off any locked on swarms for xx seconds Stealth mode where you don't show up on the radar, no enemy/friendly display for anyone looking at ship for xx seconds Supply Drop aka like a large nanohive Spawn in with vehicle Vehicle Lock - Self / Squad / Anyone Lock on / targeting warning To name a few. Like others have said the cost of the suit is going to have to be worth the feature set or we will just keep using our free suits. Sorry but I think features like that should be general modules. We have so few modules as it is, I'm very much against locking them behind a specific suit type. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5132	Posted - 2015.03.03 02:04:00 - [9] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Brush Master wrote: I am one that believes that the pilot suit should be like a key that unlocks features on xx vehicles that other suits do not have access to in the form of vehicle equipment slots. Possible types of vehicle equipment / features Countermeasures to break off any locked on swarms for xx seconds Stealth mode where you don't show up on the radar, no enemy/friendly display for anyone looking at ship for xx seconds Supply Drop aka like a large nanohive Spawn in with vehicle Vehicle Lock - Self / Squad / Anyone Lock on / targeting warning To name a few. Like others have said the cost of the suit is going to have to be worth the feature set or we will just keep using our free suits. Sorry but I think features like that should be general modules. We have so few modules as it is, I'm very much against locking them behind a specific suit type. So ask the pilots about making them genmods and PilotSuits have a major bonus to them, whether its fitting or use enhancement. If the pilot suit has link modules which boost the effectiveness of these vehicle modules....working as intended. But a vehicle and all of the functions available to it should be accessible to any class...a pilot should just do it better. I mean the HMG/Forge is really the only content locked behind a suit class. I think of it more along the lines of "Anyone can use a Scrambler Rifle. But if you want it to REALLY kick ass, you use an Amarr Assault with that Scrambler Rifle" so similarly "Anyone can use a vehicle. But if you w want it to REALLY kick ass, you use a Pilot suit with that vehicle" "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5132	Posted - 2015.03.03 02:17:00 - [10] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: I don't know. I think making modules more effective on the vehicle because of the pilot suit is the exact wrong direction. Better modules means more HP or more Damage so just straight up more powerful. This was why I initially proposed downsides to link modules so it was still an upgrade but at a cost elsewhere. Additionally I prefer softer bonuses like faster cooldowns on hardeners rather than direct buffs to the damage reduction. I suppose think of it as making the functions of the vehicle more efficient, and less so directly buffing....but thats up for discussion of course "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5135	Posted - 2015.03.03 03:48:00 - [11] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: I'm almost wondering if the pilot suit should just be a one tier suit with maybe getting a nice bonus per level. I just think it could potentially be easy to unbalance vehicles depending on how the suit bonus applies. I agree we don't want to see the pilot suit apply straight damage buffs or increased HP. Bleh boring, and I hate breaking the existing suit progression we have in every other role. If Pilots are the only suit that you have to make an exception for by making a single tier, then there is something fundamentally wrong with how they're designed. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5138	Posted - 2015.03.03 06:24:00 - [12] - Quote anaboop wrote: First of all pilot suits nomnom. Sidearm, small frame. Sounds good to me. as for integrating them with vehicles, you can use the suit bonus like with all other suits but with bonuses for vehicles. Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar Pilot suits (skill) Level 1 basic frame- (Shield based pilot suit) passive shield resistance +#% per level, (Armor based pilot suit) passive armor resistance +#% per level. Level 2 basic frame - same as above Level 3 adv frame - large turret rotation speed +#% per level Level 4 adv frame - same as above Level 5 proto frame - (shield based pilot suit) shield module effectiveness +#% per lvl (armor based pilot suit) armor module effectiveness +#%per lvl Mix and match or change what the bonuses are, but that concept would set the normal frame from a pilot frame apart. (pilot suits should come out side by side with the vehicles) expect problems but its better then doing it twice right? All in all cant wait for vehicle changes , tanking has gotten dull, as whoever gets the jump on the other usually comes out victorious. So you want different levels of the same skill to offer different benefits? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5139	Posted - 2015.03.03 07:52:00 - [13] - Quote anaboop wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: So you want different levels of the same skill to offer different benefits? Nono, just new bonuses at adv and proto. Why would you deviate from the existing system that every single other suit in the game already uses? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5152	Posted - 2015.03.03 17:41:00 - [14] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Pilot suits are naturally fast and naturally stealthy weakest on hp of all classes weakest on repair and recovery of all classes decent stamina but slow to re-gen it back to be used more for running away to call a new vehicle in; not to rush into combat. Id much rather have a slower, higher HP option so I don't get screwed as an LAV driver. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5152	Posted - 2015.03.03 18:20:00 - [15] - Quote Avallo Kantor wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Pilot suits are naturally fast and naturally stealthy weakest on hp of all classes weakest on repair and recovery of all classes decent stamina but slow to re-gen it back to be used more for running away to call a new vehicle in; not to rush into combat. Id much rather have a slower, higher HP option so I don't get screwed as an LAV driver. LAVs should be 'everyman' vehicles that don't require pilot suits. As such pilot suits will generally be in a vehicle, and not need to worry about how much hp they need to buffer. No vehicle should require a pilot suit. My point being that once we get our specialist LAVs back, I'll want to use a pilot suit to increase their capabilities, and if I'm so absurdly squishy that grazing shots will take my head off, that's going to be problematic. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5155	Posted - 2015.03.03 21:00:00 - [16] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Re: LAVs and low HP pilots Link modules are going to be usable by any class that can fit it (if we make them equipment this will bar the sentinel) ; just anyone else will be less efficient at it. This was a conscious decision against the LAV as having 3 links on those can make an LAV very powerful. By weakening the operator link capabilities to around 1 link module if you want a survivable operator is the desired effect and check balance. You can have a survivable operator but you will have fewer links, If you want more links you are going to have a weaker operator. LAVs have strong mobility which is a very powerful survival tool in the current and likely future metas. High mobility unless you slow down to perform the function of the vehicle, such as Logistics repping. A dead pilot is a useless one, and if its SO easy to pop a pilot out of an LAV, it'll reach a point where using a pilot is pointless because you're dying too quickly from enemy fire that may not even be focused. Even a tanked medium suit can be dropped quickly out of the drivers seat, imagine how awful it'll be with a light frame with even less HP than a scout. There needs to be something to help protect pilots, either via some bonus to reduce incoming damage or some other metric. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5160	Posted - 2015.03.04 01:53:00 - [17] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Re: LAVs and low HP pilots Link modules are going to be usable by any class that can fit it (if we make them equipment this will bar the sentinel) ; just anyone else will be less efficient at it. This was a conscious decision against the LAV as having 3 links on those can make an LAV very powerful. By weakening the operator link capabilities to around 1 link module if you want a survivable operator is the desired effect and check balance. You can have a survivable operator but you will have fewer links, If you want more links you are going to have a weaker operator. LAVs have strong mobility which is a very powerful survival tool in the current and likely future metas. High mobility unless you slow down to perform the function of the vehicle, such as Logistics repping. A dead pilot is a useless one, and if its SO easy to pop a pilot out of an LAV, it'll reach a point where using a pilot is pointless because you're dying too quickly from enemy fire that may not even be focused. Even a tanked medium suit can be dropped quickly out of the drivers seat, imagine how awful it'll be with a light frame with even less HP than a scout. There needs to be something to help protect pilots, either via some bonus to reduce incoming damage or some other metric. The idea is that LAVs would benefit from fewer links than a vehicle that cannot get away as easily; remember this is about cool-downs and likely cool-down links used for the LAV are navigation and sensors. Also there is no guarantee we may see the return of a logistics LAV or a scout lav. Those roles could easily get shifted to other hulls (the mavs for example) Going under the assumption that you have to use a non-Pilot suit to use an LAV in an optimal matter is evident that something is severely wrong with the system. Not to mention going under the assumption that LAVs will never have a specialty variant is just....shortsighted. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5182	Posted - 2015.03.04 07:33:00 - [18] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am just saying there can be other variants of the LAV that are brought in that do not require it to be up and front with infantry. Case in point AA LAV Covert LAV Well for one, I think the LLAV should still be a thing, and secondly I still think you're going to run into issues with an excessively squishy pilot. I mean will all open air vehicles simply be unsuitable for the Pilot suit because they'll get blowing away easily? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net