DUST Search - Time to nerf all HP modules?

Adipem Nothi wrote:

Fizzer XCIV wrote:

Adipem Nothi wrote:

Fizzer XCIV wrote:

If everyone would just look to the left of the bus, we can see that there is a thread full of speed and ewar tankers that think they are still the ones who are disadvantaged.

Have a gander: http://dust.thang.dk/market_tryhardinator.php

If utility and brick modules were balanced, what are odds that the 9 of the Top 10 lows would be brick-related?
If brick modules were inferior to utility, what are the odds that the 9 of the Top 10 lows would be brick-related?
If brick tankers were at any disadvantage, what are the odds that the 9 of the Top 10 lows would be brick-related?

Lol. Like that thing is a good basis for an argument.
It doesn't even make a good fit...

Also, yeah, HP modules are the most common because everyone can make use of them fairly equally. Not everyone can make use of utility modules equally, and they never will.

Its the difference of nonspecialization and specialization.
Specialized items will always be less common than generalist ones. That's working as intended.

Do you also expect for there to be as many Plasma Cannons as Assault Rifles used?
Flawed argument is flawed.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that your logic is right. Let's assume that brick is supposed to be the better, brighter and more used. What do you think would be a reasonable usage gap between brick and the next best thing?

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shaman oga Dead Man's Game 4065	Posted - 2015.02.26 14:55:00 - [1] - Quote Or to buff all utility modules? It's quite annoying see how the modules which are not made to increase your HP pool are quite useless when you are in a firefight, but the game is a FPS, it's almost entirely about firefights, this lead to the conclusion that the game it's also about HP. Basic HP fittings should be much more viable than they are, of course HP should give an advantage in combat, but not as much as they give now. MitraglieTTOH
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 9942	Posted - 2015.02.26 15:00:00 - [2] - Quote Nonsense. Buff MLT frame HP. If I wanted to play CoD, I'd play CoD. That game is literally decided by who saw who first. Born Deteis Caldari. Rejected by my Kinsman. Found a new family in the Vherokior Tribe. Nobody messes with my family
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. 3994	Posted - 2015.02.26 15:06:00 - [3] - Quote TTK is already low You got the 15% from prof You got another 5% from warbarge You got experimental weapons with another 10% i think You got adding 1 complex which is another 7% You got another 10% using a commando suit When i 1st started playing this game TTK was long but now it has got the point of who sees who 1st generally
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7370	Posted - 2015.02.26 15:23:00 - [4] - Quote It's about time the utility mods got some love. Honestly the only TTK issues I am finding is the wide raft of difference between getting shot by an assault rifle and an HMG. The only time rifles kill too fast is when you have 2-4 of them shooting you all at once. Shotguns I don't care about. Most scout players are idiots who were entirely too dependent on the cloak to avoid having to be smart on apapproach. The maligned minnatar shotty assault is hilarious because they're easily gutted with a minimal nod to EWAR skills. I've been having more fun running assault suits over the last couple weeks (max cores, weapons minimum 3 proficiency) with the actual assault suits themselves at 1. But as far as the utility mods? There's not one that gives enough benefit to give up a regulator, rep, ferro or reactive. Range extenders are hilariously bad otherwise I'd be running a sensor assault for shooting people in the back. AV
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 143	Posted - 2015.02.26 15:26:00 - [5] - Quote Buff all mods 10% Put basic suits to assault hp, put logis to basic suits. Buff assault ehp by 40. Aka Do not nerf HP mods. If anything buff them :D! increase that ttk! Entering the void and becoming wind. Message for 1v1 air to air
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6945	Posted - 2015.02.26 16:04:00 - [6] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Or to buff all utility modules? ^ Indeed. HP is still King, and King HP is bad for build variety. EWAR Damps - Reduce active scan duration. Range Extenders - In bad shape, but can't buff 'em without nerfing Falloff inner ring. Precision Enhancers - These are probably OK. Biotics MyoFibs - Add jumps! CardRegs - Maybe faster stamina regen. KinCats - These are probably OK. Other Code Breakers - Move to High Slot. PG Extenders - Remove CPU req't and/or move to Highs. CPU Extenders - These are probably OK. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2429	Posted - 2015.02.26 16:14:00 - [7] - Quote If everyone would just look to the left of the bus, we can see that there is a thread full of speed and ewar tankers that think they are still the ones who are disadvantaged. Home at Last <3
Nocturnal Soul Ametat Security Amarr Empire 5535	Posted - 2015.02.26 16:14:00 - [8] - Quote Add resistance mods for infantry and you can go to town of them HP mods for all I care. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!! The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6945	Posted - 2015.02.26 16:31:00 - [9] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: If everyone would just look to the left of the bus, we can see that there is a thread full of speed and ewar tankers that think they are still the ones who are disadvantaged. Have a gander: http://dust.thang.dk/market_tryhardinator.php If utility and brick modules were balanced, what are odds that the 9 of the Top 10 lows would be brick-related? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2431	Posted - 2015.02.26 16:51:00 - [10] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: If everyone would just look to the left of the bus, we can see that there is a thread full of speed and ewar tankers that think they are still the ones who are disadvantaged. Have a gander: http://dust.thang.dk/market_tryhardinator.php If utility and brick modules were balanced, what are odds that the 9 of the Top 10 lows would be brick-related? If brick modules were inferior to utility, what are the odds that the 9 of the Top 10 lows would be brick-related? If brick tankers were at any disadvantage, what are the odds that the 9 of the Top 10 lows would be brick-related? Lol. Like that thing is a good basis for an argument. It doesn't even make a good fit... Also, yeah, HP modules are the most common because everyone can make use of them fairly equally. Not everyone can make use of utility modules equally, and they never will. Its the difference of nonspecialization and specialization. Specialized items will always be less common than generalist ones. That's working as intended. Do you also expect for there to be as many Plasma Cannons as Assault Rifles used? Flawed argument is flawed. Home at Last <3
Vesta Opalus T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 464	Posted - 2015.02.26 17:30:00 - [11] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: KinCats - These are probably OK. As I detail here, kinetic catalyzers are great at prototype tier, but need work at standard/enhanced tier as their performance and costs make fitting them completely worthless, which, combined with their high baseline cost, makes kincats prohibitively expensive on a standard or enhanced dropsuit. Bump my thread for more discussion and maybe rattati will notice!
Green Living Gallente Gay Swag Club 1368	Posted - 2015.02.26 17:44:00 - [12] - Quote Yeah the TTK can't get any lower or this will be another twitch shooter and I'll be on my way to greener pastures.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6950	Posted - 2015.02.26 17:55:00 - [13] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: KinCats - These are probably OK. As I detail here, kinetic catalyzers are great at prototype tier, but need work at standard/enhanced tier as their performance and costs make fitting them completely worthless, which, combined with their high baseline cost, makes kincats prohibitively expensive on a standard or enhanced dropsuit. Bump my thread for more discussion and maybe rattati will notice! Gotcha. If the math is off, I freely concede. Will update my post above. Thanks! Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6950	Posted - 2015.02.26 17:59:00 - [14] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: If everyone would just look to the left of the bus, we can see that there is a thread full of speed and ewar tankers that think they are still the ones who are disadvantaged. Have a gander: http://dust.thang.dk/market_tryhardinator.php If utility and brick modules were balanced, what are odds that the 9 of the Top 10 lows would be brick-related? If brick modules were inferior to utility, what are the odds that the 9 of the Top 10 lows would be brick-related? If brick tankers were at any disadvantage, what are the odds that the 9 of the Top 10 lows would be brick-related? Lol. Like that thing is a good basis for an argument. It doesn't even make a good fit... Also, yeah, HP modules are the most common because everyone can make use of them fairly equally. Not everyone can make use of utility modules equally, and they never will. Its the difference of nonspecialization and specialization. Specialized items will always be less common than generalist ones. That's working as intended. Do you also expect for there to be as many Plasma Cannons as Assault Rifles used? Flawed argument is flawed. Let's assume for the sake of argument that your logic is right. Let's assume that brick is supposed to be the best and the most used. What do you think would be a reasonable usage gap between brick and the next most used thing? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
John ShepardIII Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention 1328	Posted - 2015.02.26 18:00:00 - [15] - Quote HP mods don't help a lot because TTK is still low. What I think we should do is nerf all weapons by 10% and nerf feroscale plates by 10-15 less HP per plate. By doing this it will make speed tankers which is 90% of everyone have a lot less HP. The people who don't speed tank will be really slow and easy to kill still. By making the fero plates crappier more people will use dampners, kinkats, or regs. So TTK will go up due to weapon nerf, but it won't be to bad because the fero plate nerf will cause assaults not being able to have 1000 hp using all fero plates. So people will use other mods too because stacking all fero plates wouldn't be a good idea anymore. Btw I love fero plates I just think nerfing them will make people use other mods too. The True Shepard Rampage GOML Have No Fear. John Shepard Is Here!
Fizzer XCIV Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 2432	Posted - 2015.02.26 18:28:00 - [16] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: If everyone would just look to the left of the bus, we can see that there is a thread full of speed and ewar tankers that think they are still the ones who are disadvantaged. Have a gander: http://dust.thang.dk/market_tryhardinator.php If utility and brick modules were balanced, what are odds that the 9 of the Top 10 lows would be brick-related? If brick modules were inferior to utility, what are the odds that the 9 of the Top 10 lows would be brick-related? If brick tankers were at any disadvantage, what are the odds that the 9 of the Top 10 lows would be brick-related? Lol. Like that thing is a good basis for an argument. It doesn't even make a good fit... Also, yeah, HP modules are the most common because everyone can make use of them fairly equally. Not everyone can make use of utility modules equally, and they never will. Its the difference of nonspecialization and specialization. Specialized items will always be less common than generalist ones. That's working as intended. Do you also expect for there to be as many Plasma Cannons as Assault Rifles used? Flawed argument is flawed. Let's assume for the sake of argument that your logic is right. Let's assume that brick is supposed to be the better, brighter and more used. What do you think would be a reasonable usage gap between brick and the next best thing? I never said better. And I never said brick tanking. It seems like you are drawing too large of a correlation between the use of any HP modules and brick tanking. I said that HP mods are supposed to be the most generalist and versatile mods, therefore they will be the most common, and that a system where some mods are quite a bit more common than others isn't necessarily imbalanced. Just like weapons, suits, or even classes, usage rates amongst modules should not be evenly distributed. As for an ideal ratio... Well that largely depends on what the ideal ratio of the different classes should be. Even the ideal ratio of weapons would affect this. Just because utility mods are not as common as HP mods, does not mean they are worse. Just specialized. Aside form a few mods, most are well balanced with each other as is, IMO. Myofibrils and PG/CPU mods are the only ones that really call for any buffs, if you ask me. Home at Last <3
Varoth Drac State of Purgatory General Tso's Alliance 597	Posted - 2015.02.26 19:00:00 - [17] - Quote I never understood why medium frames didn't get their hp buffed when assaults did, as previously they had the same hp. I never raised it before the change was implemented as I (foolishly) assumed it would happen. Raising base hp helps reduce the over reliance on hp mods. I think at this stage nerfing hp mods would be opening a can of worms to do with armour / shield balance, ttk, regen etc. Probably not a good idea to mess with this other than the odd tweak here and there. Much better to buff certain under performing utility mods. Range extenders definitely need a buff. Put them back to +45%, but have them affect only the outer (and middle?) scan rings. Increasing the high precision central ring's range is a definite no as it would prevent anyone from dampening below scans. Others have suggested this before (Ares 514 recently). Kincats could have their fitting requirement reduced. In my eyes hp mods should always cost the most resources. Also see Vesta Opalus's FaID thread about progression. I know people are currently getting annoyed about speed tanking, but Kincats don't affect strafing so don't improve people's bullet dodging, which is really what people get annoyed about. Actually, on the subject of speed tanking, it's a good thing that speed tanking is viable, as there have been times in the past where maxing out armour was the only way to go. As long as you can't get too good a combination of hp and strafe speed it's not a problem. Much like passive scans, precision and range are fine as long as you can't have too much of both at the same time.
All Gucci T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K RISE of LEGION 201	Posted - 2015.02.27 02:41:00 - [18] - Quote John ShepardIII wrote: HP mods don't help a lot because TTK is still low. What I think we should do is nerf all weapons by 10% and nerf feroscale plates by 10-15 less HP per plate. By doing this it will make speed tankers which is 90% of everyone have a lot less HP. The people who don't speed tank will be really slow and easy to kill still. By making the fero plates crappier more people will use dampners, kinkats, or regs. So TTK will go up due to weapon nerf, but it won't be to bad because the fero plate nerf will cause assaults not being able to have 1000 hp using all fero plates. So people will use other mods too because stacking all fero plates wouldn't be a good idea anymore. Btw I love fero plates I just think nerfing them will make people use other mods too. Lol no. People who spend time trying to convince others they are on their side or they are the truth usually aren't.... Director / Slayer / Emperor

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