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Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5056	Posted - 2015.02.25 20:20:00 - [1] - Quote Ok so those are your bonuses. Is there any incentive to use ADV or PRO? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5056	Posted - 2015.02.25 22:07:00 - [2] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: We should have vehicle modifiers in the slots. Shield modifiers in the highs, armor modifiers in the lows. Why else would anyone want to use higher than militia Yknow? And! Damage Modifiers will have penalties relating to the slot (high or low / shield or armor). Nothing big! Like maybe a complex damage control will be 7 to 10% reduction to damage received (slot based) at the cost of EHP or maneuverability etc. Damage (nothing over 5%, can only fit one), turret rotation, round velocity, torque, etc, regulators, etc. modifiers on a pilot suit only. Fit suits accordingly annnd boom boom diverse vehicles And THATS how you do pilot suits the right way. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5057	Posted - 2015.02.25 22:10:00 - [3] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: We should have vehicle modifiers in the slots. Shield modifiers in the highs, armor modifiers in the lows. Why else would anyone want to use higher than militia Yknow? And! Damage Modifiers will have penalties relating to the slot (high or low / shield or armor). Nothing big! Like maybe a complex damage control will be 7 to 10% reduction to damage received (slot based) at the cost of EHP or maneuverability etc. Damage (nothing over 5%, can only fit one), turret rotation, round velocity, torque, etc, regulators, etc. modifiers on a pilot suit only. Fit suits accordingly annnd boom boom diverse vehicles Or perhaps RIG's. Basically rigs are secondary modules that can be fitted to ships in EVE. The offer one positive and one negative stat alteration to your ship. E.G- A Small Locus Co-Ordinator increases a Laser Turrets Optimal Range but means that all fitted turrets of that type suffer from increased PG costs. Lets see how long it takes for Spkr to freak out about this idea... "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5057	Posted - 2015.02.25 22:40:00 - [4] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: There we go! Now we vehicle pilots gotta work some numbers here. to diversity! The only issue that I see is that the Rigs have to go on the hull if they ever affect specific attributes like PG/CPU, Shields, and Armour. It's silly being able to deploy something and then modify it in the field simply by hopping in. E.G- You fit Rigs that cause you to go over CPU allotment. What Happens in battle? You are in your tank with X eHP remaining after AV attack and hop out taking you below your modified HP threshold... Any link modules that go on the suit shouldn't affect PG/CPU at all. As for rigs on the hull, that's an entirely different matter. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5057	Posted - 2015.02.25 23:04:00 - [5] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: True Adamance wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: There we go! Now we vehicle pilots gotta work some numbers here. to diversity! The only issue that I see is that the Rigs have to go on the hull if they ever affect specific attributes like PG/CPU, Shields, and Armour. It's silly being able to deploy something and then modify it in the field simply by hopping in. E.G- You fit Rigs that cause you to go over CPU allotment. What Happens in battle? You are in your tank with X eHP remaining after AV attack and hop out taking you below your modified HP threshold... Any link modules that go on the suit shouldn't affect PG/CPU at all. As for rigs on the hull, that's an entirely different matter. So what negatives/positives/ effects should pilot modules have? Well I could see it as a means to push tanking style into a particular direction. So for example boosting natural shield recharge while decreasing booster amount (More passive for less active). There are also utility options, such as scanning, mCRU, ect. Overall I think it should be more positive than negative, but not necessarily a direct buff without some downside. We could also explore options where there is a smaller benefit without a downside, and then a larger benefit with a downside....Shield Rechargers vs Energizers is a prime example of this. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5057	Posted - 2015.02.25 23:20:00 - [6] - Quote True Adamance wrote: I like the idea of pilot suits supplementing a specific style but at the same time not defining it. Aka the bonuses I feel should be applicable to all vehicles so that it is not simply a matter of always picking the Caldari Pilot suit for the Caldari tank. Well I think you should be encouraged to racially match the suit if you're going for a pure tanking benefit, so that like shield links would go in high slots, so a Caldari or MInmatar suit would be preferential. However if you add in utility links as well, you could get some interesting combinations to compensate for a lack of slots on particular hulls. So for example using a Caldari Pilot fit with Speed Links in the highs to compensate for the lower speed in an Amarrian HAV (obviously just an example) "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5058	Posted - 2015.02.26 03:17:00 - [7] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Just got outta class, didn't read any new page. Think skills. When you just get into the skills apply. Now link that w/ the suits: The "rigs" (watch the quotations!) are placed on suit. Just like the skills, they are applied in vehicle. So, the "rigs" are on suit and are applied "actively" (unlike fit building which is "passive") the pilot suit you build will determine the PG/CPU. Like an example I have is a damage modifier (damage control) I fit a basic shield damage control [ let's say 4% reduction to shield damage] i get a 3% reduction to shield extenders? Or, i fit a basic reactive armor? I get 100+ ahp with 15 rep but 2% reduction torque? using small numbers just to show what I mean Im not sure if I'm a huge fan of the tradeoffs you listed in your example, but I think we're on the same page in general. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5059	Posted - 2015.02.26 03:48:00 - [8] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: Just got outta class, didn't read any new page. Think skills. When you just get into the skills apply. Now link that w/ the suits: The "rigs" (watch the quotations!) are placed on suit. Just like the skills, they are applied in vehicle. So, the "rigs" are on suit and are applied "actively" (unlike fit building which is "passive") the pilot suit you build will determine the PG/CPU. Like an example I have is a damage modifier (damage control) I fit a basic shield damage control [ let's say 4% reduction to shield damage] i get a 3% reduction to shield extenders? Or, i fit a basic reactive armor? I get 100+ ahp with 15 rep but 2% reduction torque? using small numbers just to show what I mean Im not sure if I'm a huge fan of the tradeoffs you listed in your example, but I think we're on the same page in general. Don't worry, i just had to throw something out there for you guys to get the general idea. And i "think we're on the same page" too. I have no idea what to trade yet imho... Feels way too new for now to me ;D All i know a regulator will be the first thing I fit on all my pilot suits mmhm! For sure, pushing that shield recharge delay as low as possible would be awesome. Gimme a little time, I'll do a data pull from EVE to get some inspiration on a bunch of the modules/rigs they have there that have upsides and downsides. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5061	Posted - 2015.02.27 01:45:00 - [9] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: [ Infantry gets 5% shield, armor, CPU and shield per level; 5% to armor plate, armor rep, shield extender, shield regulator and shield recharger efficacy per level for each individual module. If infantry can get that, surely we can get something from a pilot suit. True but it's not quite a direct translation. For example, Armor Repairers on vehicles rep %eHP quite a bit faster than they do on dropsuits. Additionally we already have a skill which increases armor repair rate, just like infantry. However you're proposing a secondary bonus on top of the existing skill bonus. Not necessarily disagreeing with the idea, but you also can't make a direct comparison to dropsuits either. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5062	Posted - 2015.02.27 03:12:00 - [10] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: No negatives at all. There would be no reason at all to use a pilot suit if they have drawbacks. So there's no point to use, Shield Energizers, Shield Extenders, or Armor Plates either? Because those are assets that have drawbacks. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5062	Posted - 2015.02.27 03:15:00 - [11] - Quote Spkr4theDead [i wrote: No s* they do. It's a vehicle vs. a dropsuit. Amarr sentinel has 1344 at the absolute max, while an armor tank has 4000 minimum. That's a Captain Obvious on an insane level.[/i] I know you struggle with basic math, but do you need me to explain how percentages work? It's ok to admit if you're uneducated, I'm here to help and I want you to learn these basic skills. "That little st Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5062	Posted - 2015.02.27 03:18:00 - [12] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Spkr4theDead [i wrote: No s* they do. It's a vehicle vs. a dropsuit. Amarr sentinel has 1344 at the absolute max, while an armor tank has 4000 minimum. That's a Captain Obvious on an insane level.[/i] I know you struggle with basic math, but do you need me to explain how percentages work? It's ok to admit if you're uneducated, I'm here to help and I want you to learn these basic skills. Why do you find a need to provoke people on the forums? Because he doesn't know what a percentage is, and has admitted in the past that he's bad with numbers? I mean honestly, if someone is going to have an educated discussion about balance, they need to have a few of the basics. "That little st Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5062	Posted - 2015.02.27 04:02:00 - [13] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Alright! [reserved] As promised, pulled some data on rigs and modules from EVE that have upsides and downsides that could be converted over to Dust terms. Really only for inspiration, but enough to help think of some ideas. If you're not familiar with how capacitor works in EVE, probably the rough translation into Dust terms would be: Cap Capacity = Active Module Duration Cap Recharge = Active Module Cooldown This is a GROSSLY simplified translation, but Dust in general is grossly simplified compared to EVE anyways. Also note that there are a few other Rigs/modules out there that don't really translate into Dust terms for vehicles (lock times, ECM, ect.) so I didn't include them. Rigs Armor Increased Resistance - Decreased Max Velocity Increased Armor Repair - Increase PG Cost Increased Armor HP - Decreased Max Velocity Shield Increased resistance - Increased Signature Decreased Cap Use - Increased Signature Increased Shield HP - Increased Signature Increased Shield Regen - Increased Signature Increased Shield Booster - Increased Signature Astronautics Increased Max Velocity - Decreased Armor HP Increased Cargo capacity - Decreased Armor HP Decreased Afterburner Cap Cost - Decreased Armor HP Increased Afterburner Duration - Decreased Armor HP Increased Ship Agility - Decreased Armor HP Increased Velocity and Agility - Decreased Armor HP Engineering Increased Powergrid - No Downside Decreased Powergrid Use - No Downside Increase Cap Recharge Rate - No Downside Increased CPU - No Downside Decreased CPU Usage - No Downside Increased Capacitor - No Downside Turrets Decrease CPU Cost - Increased PG Cost Increased Falloff Range - Increased PG Cost Increased Fire Rate - Increased PG Cost Increased Damage - Increased PG Cost Decreased Cap Usage - Increased PG Cost Increased Optimal Range - Increase PG Cost Increased Tracking Speed - Increased PG Cost Missiles Increased Fire Rate - Increased CPU Cost Increased Velocity - Increased CPU Cost Increased Flight Time - Increase CPU Cost Increased Damage - Increased CPU Cost Decreased Explosion Radius (This is actually a good thing in EVE ^_^) - Increased CPU cost Modules Increase Cap Recharge Rate - Increased Cap Capacity Increased Cap Recharge Rate- Increased Shield Boosting Increased Armor HP - Decreased Agility and Speed Increased Cargo capacity - Decreased Speed Increased Agility - Decreased Armor HP Increased Speed - Decreased Cargo Capacity Increased Shield Recharge - Decreased Shield HP Increased Shield HP - Increased Signature "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5064	Posted - 2015.02.27 06:37:00 - [14] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Spkr4theDead [i wrote: No s* they do. It's a vehicle vs. a dropsuit. Amarr sentinel has 1344 at the absolute max, while an armor tank has 4000 minimum. That's a Captain Obvious on an insane level.[/i] I know you struggle with basic math, but do you need me to explain how percentages work? It's ok to admit if you're uneducated, I'm here to help and I want you to learn these basic skills. So do you mean to tell me that an Amarr has a different max armor value, and an armor tank has a different max armor value as well? I use both. I see the numbers all the time, I know what I'm talking about. That has nothing to do with math. If you're going to try to troll me in that way, go away. You have terrible ideas and need to stop spreading them like AIDS. Oh dear, ok, here's a math lesson. Take the HAV's armor, divide it by the HP/s of a Complex Heavy Armor Repairer. That gives you the time required to full repair all of its armor. Now take say an Amarr or Gallente's Armor HP, divide it by the HP/s of a Complex Armor Repairer. That gives you the time required to fully repair all of its armor. Now you have both units in Seconds until full repair, which is comparable between the two because its a single, like unit. In this case "Seconds until full repair" Lets do an example: Tank A has 4000 Armor, and repairs at 100 HP per second. Dropsuit B has 1000 Armor and repairs at 25HP per second. This is where you pop is and say "DURRRRR THE TANK GETS ITS HP BACK FASTER BECAUSE 100 IS GREATER THAN 25!" But then you take 4000 HP and divide by 100 to get 40 seconds. Then you take 1000 HP and divide by 25 to get 40 seconds. So in this example, they both regenerate the same percentage of their total HP per second. And that's how ratios work. Any questions? Like I get that you're a very angry individual, but I think you're missing some key concepts here and I'd really like you to understand, because I think we might actually see more eye to eye. "That little st Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5066	Posted - 2015.02.27 18:04:00 - [15] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Pokey, it's a tank. I have no idea what you're trying to say. You're treating me like an invalid. Doc is exactly right when he calls you a spreadsheet warrior. You do all this talk here about numbers, but don't play the game. It's a tank, of course it has a much higher rep rate. Also, I don't know who uses just one rep on a tank, unless they're going for max armor. There's no reason to talk to me like I'm a piece of s*** of a person. Of course I'm angry at you, you don't listen to anything pilots say, preferring instead to point to your numbers without any play time. Numbers don't translate to gameplay. No, I just don't listen to you because you're a jerk. I don't know what metric you're looking at that leads you to believe that I don't play the game, I was even logged in yesterday doing missions for warbarge components. You've never seen me in match? Well I've never seen you in match either, so by that logic you don't play either...but I know that's a silly way to think. My frustration comes due to the fact that you act like the numerical data doesn't matter at all, in a game heavily depended on numerical data. I've never said that experience doesn't matter, and in fact I've cited in many cases "Well here's how the numbers work, but we wont be able to see for sure until it's field tested". You on the other hand will often say "I don't care if the numbers show massive imbalance, I have a personal experience where things worked out fine!" but the fact of the matter is that anecdotal evidence is not valid evidence, as it it represents only a small sample of the data. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal Experience is important, but the experience of a single, or even a couple players in a limited sample size, is not grounds for making design choices. One must first look at the quantitative evidence, fix any discrepancies, and then put it through a qualitative test (aka, field testing) to see if everything lines up. CCP Pre-Rattati largely skipped the quantitative step, and only fixed things based off of qualitative review....and as such things got more and more messed up as time went on. You seem to subscribe to a similar philosophy, and I'm sorry but my experience over the past 2 years of playing this game, tells me that that is the wrong course of action. Another point is that it's fine if you're not very good at math, lots of people struggle with the subject. But just because you don't understand what I'm talking about, doesn't mean that what I'm saying is incorrect. Both quantitative and qualitative evidence are important in the design process, yet you completely disregard one of them if it becomes too complicated for you to grasp. So in other words you're only interested in looking at half the picture, and do so in the most negative and abrasive way possible. That is why I don't listen to you. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5066	Posted - 2015.02.27 18:07:00 - [16] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: No no i know what rigs are. That's why I used quotations around rig Lol sorry for the confusion. They are fit suit side, applied vehicle side. PG/CPU is regulated suit side. It'll be invalid suit side, it cannot be deployed soo, it can't be applied vehicle side. They are applied like how skills are applied, ammo is an example of skills being applied. If i put PG/CPU mods on my pilot suit that is a valid fit i can deploy it but if it is for a vehicle which is invalid due to lack of CPU/PG then i cannot deploy it thus it is useless to me. Those wouldnt exist for vehicles. You could fit suit pg/cpu on your suit, not vehicle CPU/PG. Then what is the point? If a pilot suit is supposed to be intergrated into the vehicle then it should have the full array of modules open to it, if not then why have a pilot suit and also why is HP modules allowed but not CPU/PG? I think what Simon is getting at is that you could have rigs on the vehicle which affect performance at the cost/gain or PG or CPU. Additionally pilot suits could be fit with link modules that also offer a large benefit with a small downside, but specifically avoiding PG/CPU changes as not to make vehicle fits invalid without the pilot suit. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5067	Posted - 2015.02.27 19:46:00 - [17] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: All it takes is adding someone to your friend's list, then looking at weekly and monthly kills. Last I checked, you had none for the month. It's easy to figure out, if you played the game. Here's a screenshot of my wallet transaction, I didn't have time to play yesterday because I was taking care of my sick brother, but you can see I was playing on the 25th. Now please get over yourself, because you clearly have no idea what the hell you're talking about. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/leowen/2015-02-27_12-33-00_119_zpszibqzzbn.jpg EDIT: Just because I know you wont be satisfied with that much, here you go. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/leowen/2015-02-27_12-48-44_913_zpstredmviw.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/leowen/2015-02-27_12-49-01_85_zpsqrwkexcx.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/leowen/2015-02-27_12-49-18_203_zpstsn8hyh5.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/leowen/2015-02-27_12-49-29_218_zpsrpqzixdg.jpg "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5069	Posted - 2015.02.27 22:51:00 - [18] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: I think what Simon is getting at is that you could have rigs on the vehicle which affect performance at the cost/gain or PG or CPU. Additionally pilot suits could be fit with link modules that also offer a large benefit with a small downside, but specifically avoiding PG/CPU changes as not to make vehicle fits invalid without the pilot suit. Rigs in EVE generally change the CPU/PG of turrets at least and maybe a couple of other things so on a vehicle it wouldn't change much just like a rig on a ship. The pilot suit itself may have link modules but if it contained link modules that alter the amount of CPU/PG (CPU/PG extenders) on a vehicle and i wanted to use that extra PG/CPU on the vehicle (upgrade a module or add another modules) how can i effectively use it if the vehicle fit is invalid and cannot be called in? The only answer i can think is that with the correct pilot suit on you can call in invalid fits because the game recognizes that you are wearing a pilot suit that will make the vehicle fit valid or you spawn in the vehicle with the pilot suit on. Nothing alters vehicle CPU/PG. That makes it too complicated firstly (ensuring valid fits, balancing etc), secondly everyone will just PG/CPU there suits. Why should I fit a regulator when I can just CPU/PG my way to a comp heavy booster? The idea I have is universal, doesn't modify vehicle fitting, doesn't offset pilot suit vs non pilot suit greatly, and can be balanced suit side Like I said I would avoid having anything on the pilot suit that alters the PG/CPU cost/capacity of anything on the vehicle. If you want to have a rig on the vehicle itself which does that....sure, but the link modules would be something else entirely. Bear in mind I just yanked rig bonuses from EVE for inspiration, obviously if you have link modules with upsides/downsides (much like Armor Plates, Shield Energizers, ect have) that went on the pilot suit but didn't affect the PG/CPU at all...I think that would work out nicely. You could also have link modules that offer a lesser benefit with no downside. And example of this for normal modules would be Ferroscale Plates offering less HP than an armor plate, but without the speed penalty. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5069	Posted - 2015.02.27 23:08:00 - [19] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: All it takes is adding someone to your friend's list, then looking at weekly and monthly kills. Last I checked, you had none for the month. It's easy to figure out, if you played the game. Here's a screenshot of my wallet transaction, I didn't have time to play yesterday because I was taking care of my sick brother, but you can see I was playing on the 25th. Now please get over yourself, because you clearly have no idea what the hell you're talking about. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/leowen/2015-02-27_12-33-00_119_zpszibqzzbn.jpg EDIT: Just because I know you wont be satisfied with that much, here you go. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/leowen/2015-02-27_12-48-44_913_zpstredmviw.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/leowen/2015-02-27_12-49-01_85_zpsqrwkexcx.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/leowen/2015-02-27_12-49-18_203_zpstsn8hyh5.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/leowen/2015-02-27_12-49-29_218_zpsrpqzixdg.jpg As if I know your personal issues. Doesn't change the fact that I have been playing, quite frequently in fact. It may not be every day, and it may not be for long periods of time, but I have a life outside of the game I have to live as well. Regardless, I would appreciate it if you stopped pulling baseless accusations out of your ass and trying to use them to discredit me, when you yourself have no idea how much I play. I've tried many times to have a constructive conversation with you, and I've always been met with nothing but negative abrasive comments from you, typically in you spewing about how I don't know what I'm talking about (which is clearly not true). So until you can pull the stick out of your ass and talk to me like a decent human being and actually contribute to the conversation with more than negative dribble, I will continue to ignore what you say. I tried to be patient, and I tried to work with you, but honestly I am out of fucks to give about you. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5070	Posted - 2015.02.28 00:56:00 - [20] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: That doesn't make me a bad person, it doesn't make me stupid, it doesn't make me evil, it doesn't make me bad at math. I have a boatload of experience to back up my claims. I've been in a tank for a year and a half. When I joined RS, I had many hours of PC every single day for a month straight, every single one of those hours in a tank. I've made my own spreadsheets, which were half ignored. I make this thread, and it's poo-pooed on because I actually want to give the suits useful bonuses, rather that something worse than useless such as allowing a person to get into a vehicle. I can't think of a bonus more useless than that. I've also seen another bonus such as adding CPU and PG, without the idea of a rig, with my own reply to myself being more neurons dying. How could a suit you deploy in possibly improve a hull's fitting capability like that? Also, why can't we have 5% to PG, CPU, armor and shield? We actually agree on that. I think the whole "must be in a pilot suit to pilot" idea is stupid, maybe reduce the time to climb in and out of a vehicle....sure, but there needs to be more to it that that. So we agree on that.* I've also stated several times that I'm against any sort of pilot bonus or link module that modifies PG/CPU. We also agree on that. I also don't have an issue with offering up a similar skill/bonus progression between Dropsuits and Vehicles. Again, we also agree on that. Spkr4theDead wrote: Why must AV be so damn powerful that one unchecked infantryman with PRO AV can deny access to all vehicles in a 175m radius? Why can't tanks be their own best counter? When I say AV should be a deterrent, that does not mean or imply that I want it to be useless. It implies supplemental damage, not next to no damage. Well you're obviously speaking out Swarms, which I think in general are too easy to use. I don't think I've ever heard you complain about Plasma Cannons right? I can only imagine the reason is because Plasma Cannons are pretty tough to use, so it has a clearer risk/reward ratio. Swarms are fairly risk free and really easy to use. I think in general swarms should be more about sustained DPS, and less about alpha-ing vehicles at medium range. I suppose the short version of that would be long range but less damage, more about doing doing light damage constantly within a large radius -- opposed to Plasma Cannon being really bursty damage in a small radius. But that's really an entirely different conversation. As for the whole deterrent thing, I think that's just a fundamental difference in opinion. Looking at it from the perspective of a new player, it's difficult to encourage a player to actually run AV if you tell them "Well....its an anti-vehicle weapon but you have a very low chance of ever killing a vehicle with it." Commandos aside, why would anyone want to sacrifice their primary weapon to use an AV weapon which by your definition, isn't designed to actually kill vehicles? Spkr4theDead wrote: Pilots point out bad ideas, and offer our own, yet we're the ones being unreasonable, when the bad ideas we counter are the unreasonable ones in the first place. Like the spreadsheet about pilot suits you made a while ago. Direct disadvantages to the advantages you get with the suit? Every single one of them a bad idea. What disadvantages are there to the skills for infantry suits? If I get Amarr logi to 5, does that mean a Core Focused rep tool only reps 50 a second to infantry? No, it does its base rep rate. If I get Gallente assault to level 5, that doesn't mean an SMG does less damage, or have less ammo, or suffer longer reload time, or becomes less accurate. We already have shield recharge delay with the addition of extenders. Why should there be a longer delay with the addition of a pilot suit? It's supposed to make a vehicle better, not add more of a penalty to something. It would seem you completely misunderstood what I was getting at in that document. Never did I suggest that a skill bonus should come with an associated downside. Skills should always be 100% benefit with no downside associated with them. What I DID suggest, and have continued to suggest, are Link Modules which offer a sizable benefit to the vehicle you are piloting, with an associated downside. We see this even in Dropsuit modules, with things like Armor Plates, Shield Extenders, and Shield Energizers. All of which offer a positive benefit in exchange for a negative downside. Link Modules would operate on a similar system. I even suggested variants of said link modules which would offer a smaller benefit with no downside (Ferroscale Plates and Shield Rechargers would be the Dropsuit example). This is a prime example of why you're impossible to work with. I offer up an idea and you immediately respond with "Its a horrible idea" yet when you finally get around to explaining why you think its a horrible idea, it's clear that you didn't really understand what I was saying in the first place. What I suggested in that document was not anything foreign to the game, dropsuits that offer a positive bonus with no downside, and modules which offer a bonus with a small downside. These are existing concepts that I simply applied to the Pilot Suit idea, yet you dump on them like it's the worst idea ever. Again, had you taken the time to properly listen and understand what I was saying, instead of immediately jumping into an angry rant, we could have probably had a meaningful discussion about it. But as usual you would rather be negative than actually have a friendly talk. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5070	Posted - 2015.02.28 00:57:00 - [21] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: You say you cannot have a rational argument with any of us, well, we cannot have a rational argument with you. When bad ideas are countered with experience and history, and you don't counter with anything logical, that's not a rational argument. And I never said I couldn't have a rational argument with any of you. It's just you. I have very friendly, positive, and constructive discussions with many members of the community on many various topics. However when individuals such as yourself are only capable of responding with negativity without even completely comprehending what I'm talking about, it's difficult to respond with logic, because you still don't understand what I'm saying. The sad part is that in many cases, i'm actually agreeing with you, but you struggle so much to comprehend what I'm saying that you just assume I'm wrong and respond with more negativity. I dunno, maybe I'm just really bad at explaining things, more maybe you're really bad at understanding what I'm talking about. But in general people don't have issues understanding what I'm getting at, even if they disagree, yet you seem to be in the small minority that always seems to struggle with it. So I tend to believe that it's the latter of the two. And here's the thing, I have no issue if you disagree with me. In fact I enjoy when people disagree with me because then I can talk to them and come to a compromise between our ideals. However when you disagree (and hell even when you unwittingly agree) you have to be such an ass about it, that I really don't want to bother with you. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5075	Posted - 2015.02.28 05:12:00 - [22] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Pokey we definitely are on the same page. Just saying. Annnyways! Back on topic you guys... Let's try and work on our common goal hmm? Spkr, pokey; what you think of the suit bonuses? Also, turret stacking? That doesn't seem like such a bad idea... As long as the pros and cons stack. Helps out dedicated gunners. But then there's a chance of stacking damage mods... (make 1 fitable only) Turret stacking is tricky. You obviously want the turret to be useful with a single gunner, but not overpowered with 3. I mean if you ever experienced a triple stacked Assault dropship back when they had the 50% DPS bonus on missiles...you understand what overpowered looks like. Maybe if there was a stacking penalty or something? I mean I'm all for encouraging people to have support gunners but you don't want to make solo vehicles nonviable, or make fully manned vehicles unkillable. As for bonuses I have a document I wrote a while ago, it needs to be revised but you can see some of my general thoughts on page 8: https://docs.google.com/document/d/16DwpratAsrJ1zbxry8VFqoeAMdFGuc-IsHNSPULZK6M/edit?usp=sharing "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5084	Posted - 2015.02.28 18:30:00 - [23] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: Well we all had suggestions spkr... Like pokey's own and mine aren't the same, nor are mine and yours. Like i say make it related to suits. -10% vehicle link modules Ama: aHP 2% Cal: sHP 2% Gal: aHP/s 2% Min: m/s^2 + m/s. 2% You say: Gal: 3% aHP/s + 2% armor hardener. Cal: 3% sHP/s + 3% module cooldown. Pokey says: -15% Vehicle Link Modules Ama: x% armor plate composition Cal: x% vehicle rotation & handling Gal: x% m/s Min: x% m/s^2 Now, what can we do with these 3 suggestions, how will we make a vote, how will we revise, which will we plan to work with? Let's forget the differences and work together... Don't let the topic derail please? Pretty much. Speakr still hasn't properly read the document because all of the bonuses that have downsides are modules, and not the skills. But it seems he's simply not interested in understanding what I'm saying so....shrugs To explain my reasoning, I would like the racial HAV skill to actually define what the tanking style of the vehicle is, so armor plating for amarr, reps for gallente, and some mix of regen/shield delay for Caldari and Minmatar. That being said I intentionally avoided doubling up on those bonuses with the pilot suit, and instead focused more on movement and handling. So I would say I agree with a mix of your and speaker's ideas for bonuses, I've just applied them onto different skills and the pilot has movement/handling bonuses instead. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5084	Posted - 2015.02.28 18:32:00 - [24] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: postapo wastelander wrote: What will be cons, lower walk/run speed, lower suit shields etc? Scout eHP. Side arm only. That's what i say. They should be slow. Sidearm only. I'm still very much against grenades or a equipment. As for the HP itself well....I don't want to make it TOO squishy, because I was them to be useful in an LAV and not get wiped out when someone looks at them, you know? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5084	Posted - 2015.02.28 18:38:00 - [25] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: But my stance is that only the plate/shields links should have any negative effects. Reasons being that if you look at the modules that infantry employ, you can notice that only the shield and armor stacking (well, shield energizers too) have any negative effects in trade for their benefits. Thoughts on normal Links with no downside, and then an option for a Link with a stronger effect but with a downside? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5084	Posted - 2015.02.28 19:02:00 - [26] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: But my stance is that only the plate/shields links should have any negative effects. Reasons being that if you look at the modules that infantry employ, you can notice that only the shield and armor stacking (well, shield energizers too) have any negative effects in trade for their benefits. Thoughts on normal Links with no downside, and then an option for a Link with a stronger effect but with a downside? Kind of like that idea. Would be interesting to say the least. I think it allows for some more interesting fits, as an option. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5109	Posted - 2015.03.01 18:33:00 - [27] - Quote Shamarskii Simon wrote: DaemonVok wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Should it come with the Scout's fitting reduction to cloak? Thinking in terms of sneaking off to somewhere safe before calling in a bird or tank. I don't care about slots, as long as it doesn't have some insanely useless bonus like adding CPU and PG, or allowing us to get in a vehicle. WOW. You Derp. Extra PG/CPU would be the FURTHEST thing from useless. Stay out of vehicles. You have no brain... Useless because it will cause many complications... How will the vehicle be deployed if not in suit, etc. Suit for select vehicle is simply not a "suit" if you understand what i mean. It can also create some broken fits. Don't insult him. He's right that it IS useless. You're welcome to share an idea/your thoughts on bonuses/modules though :D Yeah anything modifying PG/CPU for vehicles attached to a dropsuit is just going to get messy on the technical side. I would avoid that like the plague. Now bonuses for PG/CPU for the vehicle attached to the vehicle itself? Legit. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5121	Posted - 2015.03.02 22:41:00 - [28] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Like the 5% per level to CPU and PG that we used to have. A skill like that seems reasonable to me. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net

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