DUST Search - Why is there so much bad player behavior in Domination?

Thor Odinson42 wrote:

Tesfa Alem wrote:

@ Thor

Not about a pity party, i have far less of a reaction to proto these days, because its pretty easy to run. Anbody can run Faction proto in a month. You also have to recgonize that as time got on, dust has only been far more ruthless than when the Uprising first came out, or before then. Perma bad Matchmaking and broken PC payouts only compounded the issue of vets vs the world. Since Kingbaber asked why do blues give up in a specific situation, I broke it down. I'm not going to be "holier than thou" and say i never crushed some poor sniper frontline fit, i do understand why people run proto on occasion. That being said, what reward for winning is worth going 1-15 for? Destiny has much much worse PvP matches than Dust, loads of cheap deaths, no penalties for losing, and marginal rewards for winning, yet you feel as if you have a chance no matter the rank. Dust, takes away that chance, and fewer and fewer people are willing to put themselves through it.

@ Hiemdall

I know about low SP PC, i was in PCs for TUL way back, and Vala Prime always kept an eye out for me to get involved with Dust Core, Acme Special Forces, or ringing a couple times. Yet, running PC with 15 other guys (proto or not) on coms in a skirmish is alot different from encouraging 15 other demoralised blues to do something usefull in a domination or ambush. Not everyone has the heart or the SP to make the enemy team pay dearly for thier win. Players like you are the exception rather than the rule.

TLDR, what i said before was just a breakdown on how a demoralised/ onsided match goes. Only if there is tons of proto on BOTH sides, or almost no proto on either side do i find a really enjoyable match. Otherwise its just a stomp one way or the other.

If that is true then what do they need to do?

It's going to take about an hour of playing to come to the realization that it wasn't gear that led to the vicious stompings when the tiered matches come out. Then what will the excuse be?

My point is that players need to stop blaming the players that actually play the game with the tools at their disposal instead of wanting to coddle the ones who refuse to use all of them. If people are having bad experiences solo and refuse to squad up, then that's a look in the mirror problem.

I used to tell newer players that we Murder Taxi Drivers and people of the like that they are only lengthening the amount of "scrub" time in their career. They aren't getting better, not learning the nuances of the game, not learning how to work with others the eliminate enemy players, etc. The sooner we stop getting the violin out for people having a bad experience running alone toward 16 enemy players, the sooner we can try to come up with solutions for actual problems.


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Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 863	Posted - 2015.02.24 19:31:00 - [1] - Quote Not placing any specific blame on you Baber, but you should know as well as anyone. - When one team initially pushes the other off of the point - No matter who is playing, the first push tends to go to the side who brings the most proto - Winning team always go on to push the other team back into the redline. - With the small size of most dom maps (i wish they really hadn't done that) the only way through is going through a barrage of proto suits and vehicles. the "good fights" tend to happen when both teams are more or less equal. Whether it be two pubstompers on each side, orthe overwhelming majority is in ADV gear. Niether sucessful pushes are very dominant. I agree with most of your sentiment, that dust have a bad core of players. The kind that only play with a team full of Ak.0s, Ck.0s, Gk.0s, and Mk.0s. regardless of the match, or who they play against. Emphassis on only, because theres a difference in bringin it when you have too, rather than it being the go to move. I'm talking the players who swear by KD, they tend to be the first to cower in the red with a particle cannon rail or a thales. Blueberries just suck, and I don't blame them for having a rough time against say, rainbow effect or sver true blood. Blueberries are all idiots. But they don't ruin matches the way vets will. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 864	Posted - 2015.02.24 20:55:00 - [2] - Quote @ Thor Not about a pity party, i have far less of a reaction to proto these days, because its pretty easy to run. Anbody can run Faction proto in a month. You also have to recgonize that as time got on, dust has only been far more ruthless than when the Uprising first came out, or before then. Perma bad Matchmaking and broken PC payouts only compounded the issue of vets vs the world. Since Kingbaber asked why do blues give up in a specific situation, I broke it down. I'm not going to be "holier than thou" and say i never crushed some poor sniper frontline fit, i do understand why people run proto on occasion. That being said, what reward for winning is worth going 1-15 for? Destiny has much much worse PvP matches than Dust, loads of cheap deaths, no penalties for losing, and marginal rewards for winning, yet you feel as if you have a chance no matter the rank. Dust, takes away that chance, and fewer and fewer people are willing to put themselves through it. @ Hiemdall I know about low SP PC, i was in PCs for TUL way back, and Vala Prime always kept an eye out for me to get involved with Dust Core, Acme Special Forces, or ringing a couple times. Yet, running PC with 15 other guys (proto or not) on coms in a skirmish is alot different from encouraging 15 other demoralised blues to do something usefull in a domination or ambush. Not everyone has the heart or the SP to make the enemy team pay dearly for thier win. Players like you are the exception rather than the rule. TLDR, what i said before was just a breakdown on how a demoralised/ onsided match goes. Only if there is tons of proto on BOTH sides, or almost no proto on either side do i find a really enjoyable match. Otherwise its just a stomp one way or the other. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 864	Posted - 2015.02.24 21:26:00 - [3] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: @ Thor Not about a pity party, i have far less of a reaction to proto these days, because its pretty easy to run. Anbody can run Faction proto in a month. You also have to recgonize that as time got on, dust has only been far more ruthless than when the Uprising first came out, or before then. Perma bad Matchmaking and broken PC payouts only compounded the issue of vets vs the world. Since Kingbaber asked why do blues give up in a specific situation, I broke it down. I'm not going to be "holier than thou" and say i never crushed some poor sniper frontline fit, i do understand why people run proto on occasion. That being said, what reward for winning is worth going 1-15 for? Destiny has much much worse PvP matches than Dust, loads of cheap deaths, no penalties for losing, and marginal rewards for winning, yet you feel as if you have a chance no matter the rank. Dust, takes away that chance, and fewer and fewer people are willing to put themselves through it. @ Hiemdall I know about low SP PC, i was in PCs for TUL way back, and Vala Prime always kept an eye out for me to get involved with Dust Core, Acme Special Forces, or ringing a couple times. Yet, running PC with 15 other guys (proto or not) on coms in a skirmish is alot different from encouraging 15 other demoralised blues to do something usefull in a domination or ambush. Not everyone has the heart or the SP to make the enemy team pay dearly for thier win. Players like you are the exception rather than the rule. TLDR, what i said before was just a breakdown on how a demoralised/ onsided match goes. Only if there is tons of proto on BOTH sides, or almost no proto on either side do i find a really enjoyable match. Otherwise its just a stomp one way or the other. If that is true then what do they need to do? It's going to take about an hour of playing to come to the realization that it wasn't gear that led to the vicious stompings when the tiered matches come out. Then what will the excuse be? My point is that players need to stop blaming the players that actually play the game with the tools at their disposal instead of wanting to coddle the ones who refuse to use all of them. If people are having bad experiences solo and refuse to squad up, then that's a look in the mirror problem. I used to tell newer players that we Murder Taxi Drivers and people of the like that they are only lengthening the amount of "scrub" time in their career. They aren't getting better, not learning the nuances of the game, not learning how to work with others the eliminate enemy players, etc. The sooner we stop getting the violin out for people having a bad experience running alone toward 16 enemy players, the sooner we can try to come up with solutions for actual problems. If tiered matches come out alot of players are also going to find out they're not as good as they think they are. For me, the main issue is matchmaking. Would rather not have to break a violin out, but we've all seen the NPC corp guy go amazingly bad. Theres only two instances where two teams may meet on an even level, PC and the Academy. PC players think those are the best matches, and acedemy noobs think the Academy is great, wtf is happining in pubs? Dust doesn't need that sort of handholding in the academy, where everybody is pretty much on an even level. Very few newberries leave teh academy with a negative experience. But its as soon as people leave the academy and get thrown to the wolves, thats when the violins have to come out. Purely bad tactics can be weeded out or ignored. Most of those rambo eque players have a bad time no matter the SP level they are at. But tactically sound players are still going to have a bad time. Thats where the heart of the discreptancy in Dust 514 lies. Haphazard matchmaking leads to stacked teams. Stacked teams lead to one sided matches. Theres no getting around perma running proto is a major contributor to one sided matches. Yet i would rather have proto being a option to all the players on both teams in the same SP bracket, than an option to a random number on both sides in brakets. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.