DUST Search - Squad idea

Talos Vagheitan wrote:

One Eyed King wrote:

Talos Vagheitan wrote:

Adipem Nothi wrote:

When in a full squad, I often find myself very bored and the enemy very red-lined. I fail to see what is inherently wrong with running solo.

Running solo is why 99% of blueberries are so ineffective. This is one of the largest factors in why games are so unbalanced.

I run solo all the time.

Have for 2 years.

I know of other long time vets who do the same.

I still end up towards the top 5 of the leaderboard, because I still support my team.

Squadding up will not automatically confer knowledge upon new players nor provide incentive to play differently.

Many of us have our reasons for not squadding, and we shouldn't be further penalized for doing so.

You already get a bonus to play because of communication, teamwork and OB support, I don't think adding more of a bonus needs to be implemented.

This isn't about you.

Having one player at the top of the leaderboard doesn't necessarily effect the outcome of the match one bit. Also, no one has suggested any sort of penalty for running solo.

In regards to squadding, being in a full squad actually will confer knowledge to the new players just through communication. You are also wrong in the fact that there is actually no greater incentive to play differently than being in a squad. Scanning is the perfect example, although all types of equipment are better coordinated in squads, along with vehicles, different suit types, strategies etc.

If anyone has a legitimate reason why this shouldn't be done I'd be happy to hear it


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One Eyed King Nos Nothi 7913	Posted - 2015.02.20 21:46:00 - [1] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: When in a full squad, I often find myself very bored and the enemy very red-lined. I fail to see what is inherently wrong with running solo. Running solo is why 99% of blueberries are so ineffective. This is one of the largest factors in why games are so unbalanced. I run solo all the time. Have for 2 years. I know of other long time vets who do the same. I still end up towards the top 5 of the leaderboard, because I still support my team. Squadding up will not automatically confer knowledge upon new players nor provide incentive to play differently. Many of us have our reasons for not squadding, and we shouldn't be further penalized for doing so. You already get a bonus to play because of communication, teamwork and OB support, I don't think adding more of a bonus needs to be implemented. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 7932	Posted - 2015.02.21 20:07:00 - [2] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Talos Vagheitan wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: When in a full squad, I often find myself very bored and the enemy very red-lined. I fail to see what is inherently wrong with running solo. Running solo is why 99% of blueberries are so ineffective. This is one of the largest factors in why games are so unbalanced. I run solo all the time. Have for 2 years. I know of other long time vets who do the same. I still end up towards the top 5 of the leaderboard, because I still support my team. Squadding up will not automatically confer knowledge upon new players nor provide incentive to play differently. Many of us have our reasons for not squadding, and we shouldn't be further penalized for doing so. You already get a bonus to play because of communication, teamwork and OB support, I don't think adding more of a bonus needs to be implemented. This isn't about you. Having one player at the top of the leaderboard doesn't necessarily effect the outcome of the match one bit. Also, no one has suggested any sort of penalty for running solo. In regards to squadding, being in a full squad actually will confer knowledge to the new players just through communication. You are also wrong in the fact that there is actually no greater incentive to play differently than being in a squad. Scanning is the perfect example, although all types of equipment are better coordinated in squads, along with vehicles, different suit types, strategies etc. If anyone has a legitimate reason why this shouldn't be done I'd be happy to hear it You're right this isn't about me, this isn't about YOU either. If you look at the numbers of unsquaded vs squaded on both sides the great majority of pub games involve unsquaded players. YOU want to force something upon them that they may not want themselves, and further penalize them for not being like you. Games need to be designed for BOTH kinds of players to be viable and have a place in the game, and the problem ISN'T squading solo players. Its the NPE. New players will have difficulty whether it be in squads or solo. And proto pub stompers who don't give a frack about new players aren't as a whole going to be willing to carry a few on their teams. If they did, they would make a more proactive effort to have one or two new players join their squad to help them out and to even out the competition. Do they do that? Hell no. In fact, you see many proto stompers making jokes about how fun it is to ruin the game for new players by stomping them, and bragging about how many people they turned off of the game. I get that it bothers you, but there are larger issues at play, and trying to penalize people who play solo is not the way to go. I am not advocating that all players should be unsquaded just because I am. I am advocating for BOTH play styles to be viable. You sir are the one who cannot abide by others not playing how you want the game to be played, from a minority position even. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 7932	Posted - 2015.02.21 21:33:00 - [3] - Quote killertojo42 wrote: Seriously how did asking for a benefit to the whole game turn into whining about protostompers? And yes any squad gets inherent benefits in any game something even call of duty players understand when they party up, squading up giving fringe benefits besides just war points gives a good incentive to fill your squad and would end up getting more randoms invited to squads just for those benefits Because proto stomping is a problem, and squads are part of it. Now, you are asking to give them a benefit on top of the already inherent benefit of communication. Warbarge will be adding Corp Warbarge, which will then, on top of that, confer similar benefits the OP is discussing to corps. Who will then squad together and have both Corp Warbarge AND Squad bonuses applying, to further their advantage over new players, as if the massive SP balance weren't already a factor. You can never discuss these changes as if they exist in a vacuum, they will always have other repercussions. If the OP were merely asking for these things in FW where squad play is much more essential, I would have no problem. The fact is that this game needs to grow, and it can't do that if it can't retain new players. It can't retain new players if it keeps making changes that do not address the real problems, and forcing them or anyone else into a squad by creating more disadvantages to the already disadvantaged is not an appropriate way to go about retaining new players. If you want new players to squad, create partial squads of vets and get on squad finder and invite players. If you play a game, and see someone struggling, invite them to your squad. There are many ways for you to encourage them to squad than what is being suggested. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 7932	Posted - 2015.02.21 21:47:00 - [4] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: Like your other posts, you couldn't be more wrong. I really don't know if I can explain this clearer for you, but I'll try. To explain this in more simpler terms, could you please show me where I suggested "forcing something upon" anyone? And also tell me where I suggested "penalizing people", as I have no idea what you're talking about. I'll try to break it down -Players are much more effective in squads. -Games are unbalanced when full squads go up against solo players -Providing more incentive to squad up would help to make games more balanced. Games ARE unbalanced when full squads go up against solo players, on that we agree. A full squad of noobs going against a full squad of vets will not inherently even the playing field. Providing incentives to squad will benefit experienced players who are already squadding further advantages while, even if successful, do not guarantee that new players joining a squad will act and coordinate as a squad. Merely joining a squad does not impart knowledge or communication automatically. Talos Vagheitan wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Games need to be designed for BOTH kinds of players to be viable and have a place in the game, and the problem ISN'T squading solo players. This is why I suggested 4 man squads for regular ambush (not OMS). I partially agree, only because I think 4 man squads should be the norm for all Pub game modes (at this point until the community is large enough that creating a multitude of game modes will not negatively affect the game). My biggest problem with the idea is giving more material advantage to squads, because I don't think it will be as effective as you would like, and because I believe it would ultimately result in further negative aspects for new players. When I first started the game, we were automatically put in squads. Everyone was squadded. Blueberries were still blueberries and it didn't help one iota. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 7936	Posted - 2015.02.22 00:48:00 - [5] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: The people already running in squads wouldn't benefit all that much from the additional bonus as many people know how to manufacture WP when a OB strike is needed. IE switch to logi or whatever. Squads are already a huge advantage over solo, yet droves of crappy players run matches solo over and over only to scratch their heads over being ineffective. Pushing squads before some more of these team play features are added seems like it should be a high priority. My guess is they won't. The best players will take advantage of the new revenue streams and leave the random solo dudes even further in the Dust. And how will creating these advantages encourage people who don't want to squad to do so? How will this compensate for those who do not want to use mics to communicate? Throwing a few bonuses towards a bunch of randoms in a squad will make them no better team players or better coordinated. If you really want to see better coordination in Pubs, adding more Warbarge time before pub matches to allow people to squad up would be much more beneficial without having any possible negative consequences. For all the squading benefits, I can tell you that in all the time I was automatically put into a squad early on, it did not help me one bit. Not with coordination, not with learning the game, and not with becoming a better player. Squading is not the panacea you want it to be. If you want to encourage squads, I ask that you find other ways that have less possibility of negatively affecting those you want to help, or further ostracizing those who don't want it. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 7950	Posted - 2015.02.22 04:13:00 - [6] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: - Being in a squad increases teamwork; a 6 man squad is far more effective than 6 equally skilled individuals; putting more individuals into squads increases team effectiveness THIS is an assumption, not a statement of fact. I disagree with this statement, and have already expressed my reasons, as did several others. It is not a matter of "not getting it" it is a matter of disagreement with you needing to provide some sort of significant data that says otherwise. If the statement were true, squads of new players could run around doing just as well. Six players of any skill will not automatically be better in a squad than they would be alone. Period. If they wouldn't communicate via team chat they are not going to communicate and coordinate elsewhere.[/quote] Talos Vagheitan wrote: - Being solo decreases teamwork. Also an assumption. You do not need to hear verbal commands or see other commands in order to analyze the situation and react. I have had many Logis pick me up and rep me without being in their squad, which is teamwork, without needing to be in their squad. I have had random blues look out for me while I hack something without me needing to direct them to do so. Both are examples of teamwork, and do not need anyone to be squadded together in order to understand. Talos Vagheitan wrote: - A squad of "only 6 individuals" (as you say) in a squad are often able to "stomp" the enemy team completely through sheer teamwork. (In A.E.'s hayday we coordinated periodic "basic stomps", where we stomped pubs in basic gear, to prove it wasn't all due to proto) You can't throw 6 new players together, or 6 random players together, and expect them to work on the same level. Another assumption. Talos Vagheitan wrote: - Pubs are easiest to stomp when none of the reds are coordinating. More players squadding up would reduce that. - Can you please tell me where I suggested "forcing squads", and how people are forced to do so. I don't think I can break this down any further, so I hope you understand this. I am beginning to think YOU are the one who can't understand. Squadding does not guarantee teamwork. You are advocating benefits for squads that only further the divide between new and veteran players. Placing 6 new/random players together against 6 experienced veterans will not automatically even the playing field. If you want to facilitate and encourage squad use, find other ways of doing so without further creating disadvantages for those that do not want to play in squads and have no need to do so in order to play as a team. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.