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![[Veteran_Nova Knife]](https://forums.dust514.com/themes/ccpDust514/dust-avatar-128.png "[Veteran_Nova Knife]")
[Veteran_Nova Knife]
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Posted - 2012.05.29 14:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
Talking about it on IRC, it would be interesting to have an option to modify your weapon more than just simple attachments, but to also be able to actually change the behaviour of the gun itself.
Eve has a script system where certain modules can gain bonuses to one attribute put a penalty to another. Sacrificing accuracy for rate of fire, things along those lines. It's possible each gun could have a modification slot that would allow a player to apply an optional attachment or a script (But not both) that changes how the gun performs. If the menu looked and worked similar to how scripts in eve worked, it would add a ton of depth to gameplay without making the menus even more complicated for people unfamiliar with the system.
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[Veteran_Noc Tempre]
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Posted - 2012.05.29 14:10:00 -
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To further expand on this idea, it would give an extra layer of sophistication to guns if some could take more while others less or even none. Potentially especially useful for keeping gallente and caldari guns apart in the future.
The breach, tactical, and burst variants can all become scripts which would remove the need for visual distinction people are clamoring for (since the script icon would tell them apart) as well as reduce market glut. Furthermore it adds a different way to specialize in guns, since you can deviate from getting better guns to improve what you already have.
AUR scripts could reduce fitting or SP requirements further streamlining the market experience it addition to costing giving something up. A high SP character that has good fitting skills would have viable reasons to not pick the easier fitting script, just enforcing again that P2W is not the model DUST uses (nor could it ever if it hopes to succeed). |
[Veteran_Nova Knife]
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Posted - 2012.05.29 16:12:00 -
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Noc makes a good point. Scripts could replace some of the ISK variants, but I think a couple different 'base' items should definitely still be there. As for Aurum stuff.. I'm still deciding my thoughts on these. Variants of weapons are possibly fine but scripts might need to be handled a bit more carefully.
Right now I think it might be something interesting enough to persue, as most of the framework of how to do this should exist in eve, so they should have a easier time implementing something similar in Dust, without overcomplicating anything, but adding more 'variety' without making dozens of guns? |
[Veteran_Noc Tempre]
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Posted - 2012.05.29 19:49:00 -
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I would imagine the "Edit script X" option(s) could be offered below "Replace" when you select the item in the fitting menu. Each gun would come with its standard script that could only be replaced, not removed (so you don't need to have several edit commands). I would still recommend different base guns, but I see no need for nearly identical versions of any weapon. Rather have 12+ guns that can be differentiated by being capable of different scripts, some overlapping while others cannot. Rule of thumb should be if it is similar enough to require the same physical model, it should be done with a script instead.
To clarify what I was saying about AUR variants, I was suggesting make them craftable items. You turn the ISK gun into the AUR gun by purchasing both components and then destroying one of the script slots to transform it into the current system's AUR variant. At the high end gameplay this prevents AUR items from being unquestionably superior since they give up extra customization for lower fitting.
I liked your script idea. I think the mechanic could solve a lot of little issues with AUR items. If the color "rigging" option comes to fruition as well, perhaps use the same name for both for clarity. |
[Veteran_Noc Tempre]
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Posted - 2012.06.11 03:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Still trying to push this solution to the market clutter and allow future customization. Any more ideas, questions, concerns? |
[Veteran_Templar Two]
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Posted - 2012.06.18 18:19:00 -
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These are my thought on customization, revised and adapted for Scripts:
- If we use the Scripts guns/vehcles could get Scripts instead then tiers; scripts for: damage, mag size, sight/scope, underbarrel, butt, bullet propulsion system (if you find a better name for this please tell me), stabilization/accuracy, ROF, MER, bullet type, speed.
Instead than buying tiers/variations of weapons we would have to buy Scripts to fit our weapons.
Do you want a more powerful Shotgun, well don't skill up to use the better tier, simply buy a Script that gives more damage.
Do you want a AR that fires in bursts: buy a ROF Script.
With Script there won't be need for a militia/advanced/prototype weapon/vehicle division anymore, we will simply have 1 Gallente, Minmantar, Caldari, Amarr version for each weapon/vehicle.
Tier variety would not disappear because we would have Militia/Advanced/Prototype Script; I want a scope with 12X magnification: I buy Prototype Script for scopes.
Also each race might get Scripts that the other races don't have and each Script could change the appearance of the weapon/vehicle.
I want to be clear: we would still have to train to be able to use each type of weapon/vehicle.
-Tiers by the way now are simply look alike weapons with different stats attached.
- With Scripts the onyl major change to the Skill system we have now would be the removal of damage bonus from Skills.
I understand the necessity of skills like accuracy, faster reload, carry more weight, but having something like a "damage bonus" from a Skill is terrible.
Better Skills which are the result of experience/training can increase the effectiveness of how you handle weapons (accuracy, reload speed, ect...) but it's no like a 50cal bullets deals more damage thanks to my skill: I can be more accurate, and so maximize the effectiveness of bullets, but my skill can't alter the physical the proprieties of the bullet...my skills can't turn steel bullets into diamond bullets to make them more devastating.
Can a skill make bullets more devastating or it's more likely that you have bought a Script for mercury bullets?
- Now skill requirements for Scripts is silly imo: does a merc need skills to have a better scope?
Needing skills to access/drive vehicles is a must have.
Knowing/learning how to pilot/drive a vehicle is definitely something that needs training/skills...training to buy a script (have better scope) for the weapon you already have trained for is silly.
Surely the focus then would shift a bit more towards money but it could be for the best: want better scripts you have to earn more not just relay on skill level.
Also this could solve some balance issue between veterans and newcomers that lately has emerged: money don't increase with time unless you play, skill level instead do increase even if you stop playing.
With Scripts we really could get variety/customization & player's option to new amazing unprecedented levels.
P.S.
I said basically the same also in the Customization thread but righteously I was asked to carry on the argument here on the first thread that proposed customization. |
[Veteran_Noc Tempre]
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Posted - 2012.06.18 22:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
I think the neat thing is there is room for advanced weapons within a tier AND scripts. For example,. Caldari would favor scripts over raw stats, while Minmitar would only have room for one on their more advanced rifles. A player would then have to choose if they want to specialize in adapting their weapon to the situation or getting more advanced (and expensive) hardware instead. If there are skills that increase the range bonus on tactical scripts for example, they may decide pushing the range of the SMG so you can engage at medium range is more important than getting more raw damage.
Because scripts modify the blueprint, they can easily justify any minor physical and performance changes. Ammo type, ROF, optics, recoil, range, trigger type, etc. And if most rifles have 1, it would keep the market clean of all those almost clones.
Pros:
More specialization
More options
Optional
Cons:
More skills to train
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[Veteran_Templar Two]
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Posted - 2012.06.19 07:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
I believe that the inclusion of scripts would remove the need of tiers for everything: weapons/vehciles/drspsuits.
Now surely CCP would need to re-design their skill list to accommodate this change.
We still would need a skill to use/access each vehicle/dropsuit/vehicle but honestly advanced/prototype tiers now are simply scripted version of the Militia one: they are the same weapon, also visually identical, and just have different stats/scripts.
INSTEAD IF the advanced/prototype are actually a different weapon, then I will understand the need of skills to USE them
Correct me if I am wrong but Scripts are a software, they can change may things of a weapon/vehicle/dropsuit (ROF, Muzzle velocity and so damage, etc...) but they can't go beyond the hardware limitations: we can't turn a AR into a Sniper Rifle.
Now, due to this hardware limitation it's plausible to think that each race produces many different models of the same weapons/drsopsuits/vehicles and not just 1 + scripts.
Gallente might have 3 SMG models each one having a unique hardware/look and unique Scripts.
-Militia Gallente SMG can't uses all scripts, it will have all the basic scripts (Muzzle vel/damage, ROF, Scopes, Stabilization,etc...), but it would have no access to the Advanced Gallente SMG scripts which could be underbarrel, ammo type Scripts.
With actually different weapons then skill requirements would be necessary BUT not in case we keep the 1 model + scripts system.
So, in short, two systems:
- 1 model for each weapon/vehicle/drospuit which is complemented with militia/advanced/prototype Scripts, but no need to train to use those Scripts.
Do I need to train to use a mercury bullet, a bigger mag, have a better scope on the same weapon? Not really.
- Actual different models for each weapon/vehicle/drospuit, unique look & scripts, and needing to train to use each model.
Do I need to train to use effectively a completely different AR? Yes, because even if it is always an AR, it's also physically different.
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[Veteran_iwillrock yourworld]
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Posted - 2012.06.21 16:26:00 -
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In EVE you can tapply scripts to a weapon. Scripts are applyed to modules to enhance a behaviour.
If these scripts are aplied to modules, i dont see why not. But do not ply scripts to a weapon.
Scripts are used in conjunction with a module, so to use this said module you actually have to give up something, like less armour.
Like we have already modules to make weapons do more damage that take the spot of a shield module. A script migth come into play in this module to enhance shield damage and nerf armour damage, or vice versa, for example. Or give the weapon greater penetration damaging both shield and armour at the same time. Or into a module to enhance sensor precision benefitinf shoting at longer distances.
There is need to have a trade off in exchange of an advantage.
Diferent weapon behaviour, well, thats why we have diferent weapon models.
Scripts should only be usable if loaded into a drop suit module. |
[Veteran_Asno Masamang]
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Posted - 2012.06.21 17:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Greetings,
iwillrock yourworld wrote:In EVE you can tapply scripts to a weapon. Scripts are applyed to modules to enhance a behaviour.
...
There is need to have a trade off in exchange of an advantage.
Diferent weapon behaviour, well, thats why we have diferent weapon models.
Scripts should only be usable if loaded into a drop suit module.
As I stated in another thread, doing custom weapons are far too much work to balance. Doing scripts is fine but as you said here, do it at the module level and make sure that for every advantage there is an equal disadvantage. In EVE, the Sensor Dampening scripts are a perfect example, they increase the lock time effect at the expense of the range reduction, and vice versa.
Additionally, as I stated in the other thread, there is little room for weapon customization based on EVE lore. |
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