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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1770
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Posted - 2015.02.18 22:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
In preparing the hotfix Delta of last fall, during heated discussions of swarm vs ADS balance,
CCP Rattati said that swarms changes (the acceleration and top speed buffs) won't affect Swarm vs HAV balance.
(I was trying to find the post to quote it but after 30mins of searching couldn't figure the right string to find it to share, sorry)
Immediately after Delta I noticed that swarm changes did affect tank survivability.
It became somewhat harder to be able for a tank to survive a match, some 20% harder for me and observing random tanks even harder for them.
Note that I'm not saying that tanks should survive the matches most of the time. I'm talking about resulting changes.
The acceleration really made it easier for tanks to get hit by several swarms. Again, after 1st hit the second is likely to be close to hit already. Also, reaction time percentage in order to move to cover dropped drastically.
The announced nerf in swarm turn radius has not been noticed by anyone I know.
Why post about this now?
I did not want to make any hasty conclusions on the weeks, or months following. I do not QQ.
Also I wanted to get experience on current swarms as as a zealous forge gunner I hadn't used them for two years or so. It was a surprise how easy swarms were so got the other perspective as well.
On Warlords 1.0 this topic should be discussed because:
- Warbarge +x % damage bonus is a big thing in AV vs Vehicle balance.
- Current SP gain rate is big so masses have reached the 'normal' level of Proto with high proficiency
- Commados with swarms have begun being popular
As of now I've observed an another wave of vehicle survivability loss.
If the intent was to keep Swarm vs HAV balance on hotfix Charlie levels, that part was failed (even though swarms vs DSs are okay)
Ahh the inertial dampeners are back to normal! ^ ^
Thank you.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1771
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Posted - 2015.02.18 22:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:How can you complain about HAV survivability against SL and then say SL vs DS is okay?
I'm saying the change in Swarms vs DS went as CCP Rattati intended.
Apparently the Swarms vs HAV did not.
Sorry if it seems the emphasis is elsewhere.
Ahh the inertial dampeners are back to normal! ^ ^
Thank you.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1771
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Posted - 2015.02.18 22:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:5% by itself isn't enough to change TTK in AV/V.
this has been another red herring brought to you by tinfoil.
if three heavy damage mods won't do it, or three light damage mods, then the warbarge bonus won't either.
The emphasis is on the Swarm behavior change of the past.
The 5% won't make it any less.
And, 5% does make a difference especially as it is most likely not affected by stacking penalties.
Ahh the inertial dampeners are back to normal! ^ ^
Thank you.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1771
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Posted - 2015.02.18 23:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Tl;Dr I came to the conclusion that swarms MIGHT be killing tanks a little bit more even though I have no mathematical evidence of such claims.... K den
It is called observation or empirical 'evidence'.
We have no access to those kill stats CCP does. We can only hope they have a look if that's the case.
Ahh the inertial dampeners are back to normal! ^ ^
Thank you.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1772
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Posted - 2015.02.18 23:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Thumb Green wrote:How can you complain about HAV survivability against SL and then say SL vs DS is okay? The main advantage ADSs have over land vehicles is they can disengage much quicker and cannot be followed to the extent tanks can.
But then again it's far easier for tanks to use terrain and buildings for cover.
At first thought it might feel the opposite, but it really is that way.
Ahh the inertial dampeners are back to normal! ^ ^
Thank you.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1772
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Posted - 2015.02.18 23:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
5% won't. Change shots to kill on a triple modded wiyrkomi swarm. Iffy on double.
Again, it is the combo of all:
- Faster, more accelerating swarms
- Masses reached the baseline of proto with prof 4-5
- Commandos getting real use
AND
- that 5% on top.
Note that I did NOT even mention this when the first on that list came. Not that dumb to think that a single detail change can affect real balance.
Ahh the inertial dampeners are back to normal! ^ ^
Thank you.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1774
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Posted - 2015.02.19 01:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Darken-Soul wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Thumb Green wrote:How can you complain about HAV survivability against SL and then say SL vs DS is okay? The main advantage ADSs have over land vehicles is they can disengage much quicker and cannot be followed to the extent tanks can. But then again it's far easier for tanks to use terrain and buildings for cover. At first thought it might feel the opposite, but it really is that way. Swarms travel thru terrain and corners. Also if one missile makes it thru you take full damage.
1st point depends on map and the terrain in question.
2nd point is not true: often swarm user launches with terrain close to him and only 1-3 missiles fly out. When that sole missiles hits, it is just that.
It is a sad fact from framerate performances perspective that all those 4 missiles are separate entities and calculated as such.
Ahh the inertial dampeners are back to normal! ^ ^
Thank you.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1774
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Posted - 2015.02.19 02:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:It's posts like this that allow me to justify having you on my list.
Oh nice.
Who are you?
Never mind, does not matter.
Ahh the inertial dampeners are back to normal! ^ ^
Thank you.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1774
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Posted - 2015.02.19 02:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Darken-Soul wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:
1st point depends on map and the terrain in question.
2nd point is not true: often swarm user launches with terrain close to him and only 1-3 missiles fly out. When that sole missiles hits, it is just that.
It is a sad fact from framerate performances perspective that all those 4 missiles are separate entities and calculated as such.
You must tank on paper. Ive been at 1700 plus and ganked by one missile.
How often?
All the time, on occasion, sometimes, rarely?
If rarely or even sometimes the chances are there was combined volley.
I have the luxury of replaying my matches, so in every case of (near)instaboom I check them. Usually it was a well co-ordinated or lucky volleys by several ppl.
Ahh the inertial dampeners are back to normal! ^ ^
Thank you.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1774
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Posted - 2015.02.19 02:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
m621 zma wrote:Using swarms alone it takes me 2 full clips of a proto SL on a double DMG modded min commando to take down your gunloggi (provided you don't missile me or rep/run away or get out and shoot me/forge gun me) Sorry to hear you're not indestructible, be grateful you don't use a Madrugar. Now HTFU. 
What there is to harden if I find too easy to pop tanks with my Swarm Launcher?
Ahh the inertial dampeners are back to normal! ^ ^
Thank you.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1774
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Posted - 2015.02.19 02:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
m621 zma wrote:Darken-Soul wrote:m621 zma wrote:Using swarms alone it takes me 2 full clips of a proto SL on a double DMG modded min commando to take down your gunloggi (provided you don't missile me or run away or get out and shoot me/forge gun me) Sorry to hear you're not indestructible, be grateful you don't use a Madrugar. Now HTFU. I am a maddy pilot. Or soma. Shields are for defense. I accel at offense, distraction, and vehicle removal.  Good for you meth head.
M6, I expected better of you.
You should really know that I do as much tank hunting as tanking.
(If we go really deep, I started AVing some 3-4 months earlier to tanking back in the days)
Ahh the inertial dampeners are back to normal! ^ ^
Thank you.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1774
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Posted - 2015.02.19 02:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Juno Tristan wrote:OP, this is why you don't talk about vehicles in GD, because people don't want to talk about the point you raised, just about how the other side has it easy
Yeah I see that exactly.
Looks like the subject is that fat poor kid of the schoolclass everyone likes to beat or at least silently approves of it.
Ahh the inertial dampeners are back to normal! ^ ^
Thank you.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1774
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Posted - 2015.02.19 02:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
m621 zma wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:m621 zma wrote:Darken-Soul wrote:m621 zma wrote:Using swarms alone it takes me 2 full clips of a proto SL on a double DMG modded min commando to take down your gunloggi (provided you don't missile me or run away or get out and shoot me/forge gun me) Sorry to hear you're not indestructible, be grateful you don't use a Madrugar. Now HTFU. I am a maddy pilot. Or soma. Shields are for defense. I accel at offense, distraction, and vehicle removal. Good for you meth head. M6, I expected better of you. You should really know that I do as much tank hunting as tanking. (If we go really deep, I started AVing some 3-4 months earlier to tanking back in the days) Sorry General o7
Go sleep that off, come back tomorrow to post whether you agree with original post or not, and 'whys' would be appreciated
Ahh the inertial dampeners are back to normal! ^ ^
Thank you.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1776
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Posted - 2015.02.19 03:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
This thread became derailed and won't serve any purpose.
I give up.
This wouldn't have required any actions besides keeping in mind, especially if the new HAVs are coming.
Moderation please lock the thread.
Ahh the inertial dampeners are back to normal! ^ ^
Thank you.
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