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DarthJT5
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
271
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Posted - 2015.02.17 16:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
ive noticed that the Large Missile has the worst fitting out of all the turrets, by far. I have tested that with Level 5 Large Missile Fitting op. Vs. Large Rail with no fitting op, the Large Missile gets a measly +1 CPU over the rail. (Both At proto level) while still costing more PG. Why is this? The large rail is better in most cases, except against armor tanks, and even then the rail is likely to win.
The Large missile needs a PG requirement reduction to be significantly lower than the rail, but keep the CPU the same. This way, the Missile costs the most CPU, but the least PG, which is good for Cal tanks, the rail is middle ground, and then the Blaster costs the most PG, but the least CPU, good for Gal tanks.
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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DRT 99
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
117
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Posted - 2015.02.17 16:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Logically (atleast as far as eve goes) it should go along these lines
HIGH PG COST >Blaster(Gallente) >Rail (Both Gallente and Caldari) >Missiles (Caldari) >HIGH CPU COST |
Harpyja
Legio DXIV
2327
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 17:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
I made a quick graphical analysis in the turret feedback thread. In short, keeping the CPU cost of the large missile launcher will require a PG reduction down to about 600-700.
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
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DarthJT5
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
271
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Posted - 2015.02.17 17:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:I made a quick graphical analysis in the turret feedback thread. In short, keeping the CPU cost of the large missile launcher will require a PG reduction down to about 600-700.
That would be much better than what we have now
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2990
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 18:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
DRT 99 wrote:Logically (atleast as far as eve goes) it should go along these lines
HIGH PG COST >Blaster(Gallente) >Rail (Both Gallente and Caldari) >Missiles (Caldari) >HIGH CPU COST
Actually, all the long ranged weapon variants (rails, beam lasers, artillery, and long ranged missiles) have higher fitting than their close ranged counterparts.
Dust is there! I was real!
Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
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DarthJT5
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
271
|
Posted - 2015.02.17 21:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:DRT 99 wrote:Logically (atleast as far as eve goes) it should go along these lines
HIGH PG COST >Blaster(Gallente) >Rail (Both Gallente and Caldari) >Missiles (Caldari) >HIGH CPU COST Actually, all the long ranged weapon variants (rails, beam lasers, artillery, and long ranged missiles) have higher fitting than their close ranged counterparts.
By that logic, the Large Rail of this game would have higher fitting costs than the Large Missile, in which the opposite is true for both PG and CPU. The Large Missile needs a fitting buff (small missiles too)
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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DRT 99
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
121
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Posted - 2015.02.18 06:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:DRT 99 wrote:Logically (atleast as far as eve goes) it should go along these lines
HIGH PG COST >Blaster(Gallente) >Rail (Both Gallente and Caldari) >Missiles (Caldari) >HIGH CPU COST Actually, all the long ranged weapon variants (rails, beam lasers, artillery, and long ranged missiles) have higher fitting than their close ranged counterparts.
They have higher fitting, yes, but in proportion. Launchers pretty much always take extreme CPU and are light on PG, regardless of Rockets or Light Missiles. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4982
|
Posted - 2015.02.18 08:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
If memory served, back in the day I think it was more like:
Missiles (Highest CPU, Lowest PG)
Railgun (Middle CPU, Middle PG)
Blaster (Lowest CPU, Highest PG)
But after they made Missiles into Death Spewers, they ramped up the PG to make them the most expensive in both categories.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Harpyja
Legio DXIV
2332
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Posted - 2015.02.18 14:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:If memory served, back in the day I think it was more like:
Missiles (Highest CPU, Lowest PG)
Railgun (Middle CPU, Middle PG)
Blaster (Lowest CPU, Highest PG)
But after they made Missiles into Death Spewers, they ramped up the PG to make them the most expensive in both categories.
Except that they will now be the worst turrets by far if the numbers don't change...
I'm seriously thinking that they need a reload time of between four and six seconds to be able to stay competitive...
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
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DarthJT5
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
271
|
Posted - 2015.02.18 15:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:If memory served, back in the day I think it was more like:
Missiles (Highest CPU, Lowest PG)
Railgun (Middle CPU, Middle PG)
Blaster (Lowest CPU, Highest PG)
But after they made Missiles into Death Spewers, they ramped up the PG to make them the most expensive in both categories. Except that they will now be the worst turrets by far if the numbers don't change... I'm seriously thinking that they need a reload time of between four and six seconds to be able to stay competitive...
I don't see why they are decreasing magazine size, total ammo, and RoF at the same damn time. All it needed was a RoF nerf to put its DPS in between Blasters and Rails....
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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Soul Cairn
Fatal Absolution
38
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Posted - 2015.02.18 20:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
DarthJT5 wrote:Harpyja wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:If memory served, back in the day I think it was more like:
Missiles (Highest CPU, Lowest PG)
Railgun (Middle CPU, Middle PG)
Blaster (Lowest CPU, Highest PG)
But after they made Missiles into Death Spewers, they ramped up the PG to make them the most expensive in both categories. Except that they will now be the worst turrets by far if the numbers don't change... I'm seriously thinking that they need a reload time of between four and six seconds to be able to stay competitive... I don't see why they are decreasing magazine size, total ammo, and RoF at the same damn time. All it needed was a RoF nerf to put its DPS in between Blasters and Rails....
What!? Who told Ratatti this was a good idea?
Born Ammatar, Caldari at heart.
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DarthJT5
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
271
|
Posted - 2015.02.18 23:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
Soul Cairn wrote:DarthJT5 wrote:Harpyja wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:If memory served, back in the day I think it was more like:
Missiles (Highest CPU, Lowest PG)
Railgun (Middle CPU, Middle PG)
Blaster (Lowest CPU, Highest PG)
But after they made Missiles into Death Spewers, they ramped up the PG to make them the most expensive in both categories. Except that they will now be the worst turrets by far if the numbers don't change... I'm seriously thinking that they need a reload time of between four and six seconds to be able to stay competitive... I don't see why they are decreasing magazine size, total ammo, and RoF at the same damn time. All it needed was a RoF nerf to put its DPS in between Blasters and Rails.... What!? Who told Ratatti this was a good idea?
No idea
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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DarthJT5
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
271
|
Posted - 2015.02.18 23:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
That is another concern. The Large Missiles of the future will completely suck. Horribly. Not only will you not have the alpha DPS to destroy other tanks, but you also have less damage in the mag, as well as less reserve ammo. Meanwhile, the rail, which is already better than missiles in 90% of all situations, is getting a buff in 2 of those areas. Wtf?
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
345
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Posted - 2015.02.18 23:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
I am going to guess that the plan is to give missiles a bit more splash for a more deadly anti infantry strike. |
DarthJT5
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
271
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 00:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:I am going to guess that the plan is to give missiles a bit more splash for a more deadly anti infantry strike.
That's probably not going to happen, and even if it did, the Large Missile is going to be the worst turret in the game. It will not be able to kill vehicles as effectively as a rail or a blaster due to having to reload 2 times to even take down a tank. (That's a rough estimate going off of the new HP values with Proto fit tanks) They will need a 4 second reload as stated above to even be competitive.
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4986
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 00:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:If memory served, back in the day I think it was more like:
Missiles (Highest CPU, Lowest PG)
Railgun (Middle CPU, Middle PG)
Blaster (Lowest CPU, Highest PG)
But after they made Missiles into Death Spewers, they ramped up the PG to make them the most expensive in both categories. Except that they will now be the worst turrets by far if the numbers don't change... I'm seriously thinking that they need a reload time of between four and six seconds to be able to stay competitive...
I would rather it be less damage per magazine with a faster reload, than the huge damage per magazine with super long reload we have now.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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DarthJT5
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
273
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 01:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Harpyja wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:If memory served, back in the day I think it was more like:
Missiles (Highest CPU, Lowest PG)
Railgun (Middle CPU, Middle PG)
Blaster (Lowest CPU, Highest PG)
But after they made Missiles into Death Spewers, they ramped up the PG to make them the most expensive in both categories. Except that they will now be the worst turrets by far if the numbers don't change... I'm seriously thinking that they need a reload time of between four and six seconds to be able to stay competitive... I would rather it be less damage per magazine with a faster reload, than the huge damage per magazine with super long reload we have now.
If I remember correctly from the spreadsheet, Rattati had no intention of giving a reload buff tho. It's going to be smaller mag, same reload.
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4986
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 01:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
DarthJT5 wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Harpyja wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:If memory served, back in the day I think it was more like:
Missiles (Highest CPU, Lowest PG)
Railgun (Middle CPU, Middle PG)
Blaster (Lowest CPU, Highest PG)
But after they made Missiles into Death Spewers, they ramped up the PG to make them the most expensive in both categories. Except that they will now be the worst turrets by far if the numbers don't change... I'm seriously thinking that they need a reload time of between four and six seconds to be able to stay competitive... I would rather it be less damage per magazine with a faster reload, than the huge damage per magazine with super long reload we have now. If I remember correctly from the spreadsheet, Rattati had no intention of giving a reload buff tho. It's going to be smaller mag, same reload.
Well I was speaking more on my personal opinion, I haven't really dissected what he's doing with the missiles. I just want to be able to run armor without being instaganked by a missile tank, but I also want missiles to remain viable. Ya know?
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
|
DarthJT5
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
273
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 03:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:DarthJT5 wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Harpyja wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:If memory served, back in the day I think it was more like:
Missiles (Highest CPU, Lowest PG)
Railgun (Middle CPU, Middle PG)
Blaster (Lowest CPU, Highest PG)
But after they made Missiles into Death Spewers, they ramped up the PG to make them the most expensive in both categories. Except that they will now be the worst turrets by far if the numbers don't change... I'm seriously thinking that they need a reload time of between four and six seconds to be able to stay competitive... I would rather it be less damage per magazine with a faster reload, than the huge damage per magazine with super long reload we have now. If I remember correctly from the spreadsheet, Rattati had no intention of giving a reload buff tho. It's going to be smaller mag, same reload. Well I was speaking more on my personal opinion, I haven't really dissected what he's doing with the missiles. I just want to be able to run armor without being instaganked by a missile tank, but I also want missiles to remain viable. Ya know?
I get you. But, in all honesty the current missiles would be fine against the next armor tanks with a Rof nerf don't you agree? Everything else should have been kept the same
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
|
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4986
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 03:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
DarthJT5 wrote:
I get you. But, in all honesty the current missiles would be fine against the next armor tanks with a Rof nerf don't you agree? Everything else should have been kept the same
I'll crunch some numbers later and give my thoughts on that, like I said I haven't really done a comparison with existing or proposed missile values quite yet, since we were waiting on eHP for vehicles and turrets were still up in the air.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
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Harpyja
Legio DXIV
2333
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 03:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
DarthJT5 wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Well I was speaking more on my personal opinion, I haven't really dissected what he's doing with the missiles. I just want to be able to run armor without being instaganked by a missile tank, but I also want missiles to remain viable. Ya know? I get you. But, in all honesty the current missiles would be fine against the next armor tanks with a Rof nerf don't you agree? Everything else should have been kept the same
Maybe also a small reduction to reload time. That way it can deal an amount of damage during a firing+reloading interval that sits between the damage dealt of the firing+cooldown interval of the hybrid turrets. Otherwise in any prolonged fight (especially since seeing that it would take one reload cycle of the current missile launcher against the proposed EHP values), the missile launcher will get far behind on damage dealt when it starts to reload.
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
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DarthJT5
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
273
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 03:55:00 -
[22] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:DarthJT5 wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Well I was speaking more on my personal opinion, I haven't really dissected what he's doing with the missiles. I just want to be able to run armor without being instaganked by a missile tank, but I also want missiles to remain viable. Ya know? I get you. But, in all honesty the current missiles would be fine against the next armor tanks with a Rof nerf don't you agree? Everything else should have been kept the same Maybe also a small reduction to reload time. That way it can deal an amount of damage during a firing+reloading interval that sits between the damage dealt of the firing+cooldown interval of the hybrid turrets. Otherwise in any prolonged fight (especially since seeing that it would take one reload cycle of the current missile launcher against the proposed EHP values), the missile launcher will get far behind on damage dealt when it starts to reload.
From first glance at the new Armor fits, even armor will require a reload unless it's a Regen oriented fit or you get half your mag into the weak spot, especially considering I've seen Pokey's dual tanked Maddie and it looks beastly. All proto, one CPU mod..
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4986
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 04:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
DarthJT5 wrote:Harpyja wrote:DarthJT5 wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Well I was speaking more on my personal opinion, I haven't really dissected what he's doing with the missiles. I just want to be able to run armor without being instaganked by a missile tank, but I also want missiles to remain viable. Ya know? I get you. But, in all honesty the current missiles would be fine against the next armor tanks with a Rof nerf don't you agree? Everything else should have been kept the same Maybe also a small reduction to reload time. That way it can deal an amount of damage during a firing+reloading interval that sits between the damage dealt of the firing+cooldown interval of the hybrid turrets. Otherwise in any prolonged fight (especially since seeing that it would take one reload cycle of the current missile launcher against the proposed EHP values), the missile launcher will get far behind on damage dealt when it starts to reload. From first glance at the new Armor fits, even armor will require a reload unless it's a Regen oriented fit or you get half your mag into the weak spot, especially considering I've seen Pokey's dual tanked Maddie and it looks beastly. All proto, one CPU mod..
Haha that actually got published? I was just dicking around. Oops.
But yeah I mean I see it like this.
No one wants to die in 2 seconds because they got instaganked by a Missile tank.
No one wants to die because they have to deal with a 10 second reload because they didnt instagank the enemy tank.
So why dont we still make it a high alpha weapon, but go under the assumption that its going to take more than one salvo to drop someone, but with a more reasonable reload time? People will have time to react, and the attacker doesnt get totally boned if they fail to kill it in a single go. I guess my point is....less damage per magazine, but it reloads a lot faster.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
|
DarthJT5
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
273
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 04:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:DarthJT5 wrote:Harpyja wrote:DarthJT5 wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Well I was speaking more on my personal opinion, I haven't really dissected what he's doing with the missiles. I just want to be able to run armor without being instaganked by a missile tank, but I also want missiles to remain viable. Ya know? I get you. But, in all honesty the current missiles would be fine against the next armor tanks with a Rof nerf don't you agree? Everything else should have been kept the same Maybe also a small reduction to reload time. That way it can deal an amount of damage during a firing+reloading interval that sits between the damage dealt of the firing+cooldown interval of the hybrid turrets. Otherwise in any prolonged fight (especially since seeing that it would take one reload cycle of the current missile launcher against the proposed EHP values), the missile launcher will get far behind on damage dealt when it starts to reload. From first glance at the new Armor fits, even armor will require a reload unless it's a Regen oriented fit or you get half your mag into the weak spot, especially considering I've seen Pokey's dual tanked Maddie and it looks beastly. All proto, one CPU mod.. Haha that actually got published? I was just dicking around. Oops. But yeah I mean I see it like this. No one wants to die in 2 seconds because they got instaganked by a Missile tank. No one wants to die because they have to deal with a 10 second reload because they didnt instagank the enemy tank. So why dont we still make it a high alpha weapon, but go under the assumption that its going to take more than one salvo to drop someone, but with a more reasonable reload time? People will have time to react, and the attacker doesnt get totally boned if they fail to kill it in a single go. I guess my point is....less damage per magazine, but it reloads a lot faster.
I'm fine with that, hell, I'm fine with anything as long as it's viable. It's the only turret I've used since Chrome, I'll always use it. I just need it to be competitive.
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
4986
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 04:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
DarthJT5 wrote:
I'm fine with that, hell, I'm fine with anything as long as it's viable. It's the only turret I've used since Chrome, I'll always use it. I just need it to be competitive.
I hear ya brother, I love missiles too, use them all the time. But it also really sucks getting instakilled simply because Missiles **** armor so badly. I think what will really set missiles apart is that even if that first volley doesn't kill them, it's going to dump a ton of damage onto them with their hardener down, which is going to eat a huge chunk out of their eHP. The missiles then reload fairly quickly and now the Missile tank starts the rest of the engagement with much higher eHP than the enemy tank.
It's not an instakill, but it still serves well as an ambush weapon.
"That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032
Dust514 // Podcast
www.biomassed.net
|
DarthJT5
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
273
|
Posted - 2015.02.19 04:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:DarthJT5 wrote:
I'm fine with that, hell, I'm fine with anything as long as it's viable. It's the only turret I've used since Chrome, I'll always use it. I just need it to be competitive.
I hear ya brother, I love missiles too, use them all the time. But it also really sucks getting instakilled simply because Missiles **** armor so badly. I think what will really set missiles apart is that even if that first volley doesn't kill them, it's going to dump a ton of damage onto them with their hardener down, which is going to eat a huge chunk out of their eHP. The missiles then reload fairly quickly and now the Missile tank starts the rest of the engagement with much higher eHP than the enemy tank. It's not an instakill, but it still serves well as an ambush weapon.
Well, when you post up your numbers after you crunch them I'll be sure to look at them. I like they way your going with this.
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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DarthJT5
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
286
|
Posted - 2015.02.20 21:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
Got numbers yet Pokey?
Dedicated Shield Tanking vet since Open Beta.
Veteran Python Pilot for 1 year.
The awnser is always XT missiles....
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