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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2497
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Posted - 2015.02.16 01:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
We all want Vehicles and Vehicles/AV resolved, but every thread looking at the issues derails in fairly short order. There are so many interconnected systems involved in this design problem that even with the best of intentions, discussions will tend to spiral out of control.
To compound issues, there is a lot of bad blood, nightmare memories, and personal agendas out there. This is mostly due to CCP dragging it's ass when things were truly awful, and leaving things that way for a long, long time.
But i digress.....
We need to pick off the small but important issues that are muddying the water, issues that we know are going to be in the final implementation of vehicles/AV. Even if we have to implement placeholder mechanics it is well worth it if those placeholders can server to clarify subsequent discussions.
1) Request/Recall timers/conditions. Things like no recall if damaged or under fire.
2) Exit/entry animation. A placeholder such as: vehicle pilot is unable to move(but can still aim/fire(with a sidearm?)) for two or three seconds.
Other peeps can come up with other small but important issues that, once addressed, will help to clarify the discussions.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
796
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Posted - 2015.02.16 07:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
1 - I think is pointless. The recall timer is so high, hardly anyone recalls out of the redzone... If you are recalling out of the redzone and someone fires a shot at you or your vehicle, you get back in and move the hell out.
2 - I can get onboard with, but only if you're in a turret or driver seat... Otherwise you're screwing over the underutilised 'transport' role. (Probably add an 'if you've been in either of those seats within a few seconds' rule as well, otherwise everyone will just tap 'switch seats' a few quick times before hopping out.)
Other issues are Tanks, Certain vehicle modules, Plasma cannon and the infamous swarm launcher.
Tanks - getting changed soonGäó.
Hardeners and reps - Need to wait until after the tank re-balance, but something should be done to make it more situational and less 'stack & spam' while being immortal during a short time, after which vehicles run to redzone and wait for next farming session.
Plasma cannon - Needs AV varient, that can actually hit vehicles.
Swarms - I give up on, they're fooked, they've always been fooked, the code needs deleting. |
Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2497
|
Posted - 2015.02.16 14:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:1 - I think is pointless. The recall timer is so high, hardly anyone recalls out of the redzone... If you are recalling out of the redzone and someone fires a shot at you or your vehicle, you get back in and move the hell out.
2 - I can get onboard with, but only if you're in a turret or driver seat... Otherwise you're screwing over the underutilised 'transport' role. (Probably add an 'if you've been in either of those seats within a few seconds' rule as well, otherwise everyone will just tap 'switch seats' a few quick times before hopping out.)
Other issues are Tanks, Certain vehicle modules, Plasma cannon and the infamous swarm launcher.
Tanks - getting changed soonGäó.
Hardeners and reps - Need to wait until after the tank re-balance, but something should be done to make it more situational and less 'stack & spam' while being immortal during a short time, after which vehicles run to redzone and wait for next farming session.
Plasma cannon - Needs AV varient, that can actually hit vehicles.
Swarms - I give up on, they're fooked, they've always been fooked, the code needs deleting.
Good points.
1 - I've seen a few instances of timer abuse over the past couple of weeks but you're right, it's nothing like it used to be. Still would like to give that recall tank-summon tank cycle a bit more of a cooldown.
2 - Agree re the Pilot's or turret seat within the past 5 seconds. Also like that the infantry passenger would be damn ready to bail fast and should be exempt from the entry/exit timer.
Tanks, plates, extenders, hardeners and reps are too complicated to think about with so many other things unattended to atm, my main beef re what Rattati's doing with the rework is that we've never given our 'waves of opportunity' model a real implementation, we just keep messing with ehp - imo we should be looking at are the acceleration and velocity gaps between infantry and vehicles, the repper/hardener duty cycles and find ways for infantry to modify those. In other words dynamic variables, not ehp. I'm staying out of Pokey's thread because nobody wants to think that way right now.
Absolutely on the AV plasma cannon.
Been thinking that we need to make swarms flat damage(current proto) across the category and have meta level change things like range, lock range, lock time, ammo capacity, magazine size, tracking ability, etc. - this would make calibrating vehicle ehp a lot easier.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
800
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Posted - 2015.02.16 22:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote: Still would like to give that recall tank-summon tank cycle a bit more of a cooldown.
I'd be happy to get on-board with this, but there are so many maps where you can't get to any of the available supply depos.
Border Gulch being a nice example, where 1 team has a redzone depo that you can get to, while the only one available to ground vehicles for the other team is in the middle of the map.
(& even that isn't 'accessible' as such, but you can crash onto it if you come from above. Gives a 50/50 chance of getting your tank stuck though, lol.)
Vrain Matari wrote:Been thinking that we need to make swarms flat damage(current proto) across the category and have meta level change things like range, lock range, lock time, ammo capacity, magazine size, tracking ability, etc. - this would make calibrating vehicle ehp a lot easier.
Damage is the least of it's problems. I wouldn't mind being downed in 3 rounds when in a dropship, if there was a fair way to evade them.
Currently the only way to miss, is if the swarmer fires them at something, or if you crash vertically into terrain at high speed (which 99% of the time, quite rightly, will blow up your vehicle.) I've done all kinds of silly maneuvers between objects, over/under, spinning around, but they just hit you no matter what. The only reason ground vehicles have it slightly easier is because they're on the ground and able to move fast, so any swarms coming from above will follow them to the floor, hitting bumps along the way.
Rattati's played with the settings for them, but it's pretty clear the code is not working as intended, hence why I suggest remaking them, or removing them.
It wasn't so bad when we could at least afterburn away. These days just flying near a swarmer (that you can't see) end in death or near death. |
MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2195
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Posted - 2015.02.17 03:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
I thought this thread was going to suggest a ban for spkr and any other vehement, belligerent person on either side. I am disappoint.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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