DUST Search - The Errorist's proposal for balanced dropsuit progression

Breakin Stuff wrote:

The-Errorist wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

The-Errorist wrote:

Anyone have anything to say about the two types of logis and giving the basic medium frames another equipment slot at the cost of a module slot?

I'm a logi tourist. I only run tgem when I'm in the mood to... you know... HELP people.

Doesn't happen often.

So I defer to actual logis on the matter.

Basic frames are supposed to be the generalist that people go to who want versatility and not specialization. Basic frames could logi and assault, but not nearly as well as those specialized at it (lacking slots and rifle skills to be best assault as well as lacking fitting bonuses and more equipment slots to be best logi).

Also I am a logi on my main account Velvet Overkill; baseless accusations of someone not being an actual logi really doesn't help your argument or make this thread go in the right direction.

I said *I* am a logi tourist.

Never said a damn thing about you. Put your pants back on.

I simply dispute the need for assaults to lose a slot

Killer's Coys wrote:

Wtf I'm dreaming or you wanna need the assault?

At the all levels assault is one of the most balanced thing in this game.
Assaults have the correct slots pg cpu and ehp, but aren't OP.
And the slot progression in really good as it's at the moment.
If the slot progression was +1, what would be the significance to use a proto suit instead of an advanced?
You paid 3x more just for 1 mod? LOL.

There are some changes which must be done, I agree with you, but need the assault is just the worst thing to do.

1) increase commando speed
2) biff the logi slot progression (as you said for the gallogi)

Commando are not up because of assaults. There are up because of the heavy,because it's hardly the same speed, the same scan, but less hp and not the HMG slot.
Don't forget comma do have a dps increasing bonus and 2 lights weapons (!) so that's normal and logical assault have more slots and a better slot progression.

Heavy : the HMG and a resistance bonus
Commando : 2 light weapon and dps increasing bonus
Scouts : cloak and scan
Logi : support support support => slots
Assault : weapons fitting bonus and bog slot progression

I like all your idea (about the logi type I and II, the medium frame which has 2 equipment instead of 1) but for me the current slot progression (except for basic logi) is quite good for all of the dropsuit in this game. My opinion.

We did wait to see the assault become back good (don't forget how it was between 1.8 and hotfix Charlie) and now it's a really good and balanced suit. Even between the STA - ADV - PRO slot progression.

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The-Errorist 1049	Posted - 2015.02.16 00:05:00 - [1] - Quote The to fix these glaring problems and more: Basic medium frames serving no purpose Basic medium frames having the wrong slot layouts Amr Logi having a Minmatar slot layout at STD & ADV Gal Logi having a total of 2 high/low slots when the gal assault has 4 Cal logi total progression being 7->9->14 Amr Logi sacrificing twice for it's sidearm Adv & Pro Commandos being outclassed by assaults of the same tier These changes which I have outlined in my spreadsheet should be done: Basic medium frames and logistics should follow the standardized dropsuit module slot progression like everything else. Give basic medium frames +1 equipment slot for -1 module slot and more PG/CPU, which would go towards making all basic frames in-between specializations Split logistics into two types: type I & II Logistics; one without a sidearm and one that pays for it with 1 module slot. 1 module slot progression for medium frames like every other frame size. Suits, Tanks, a mode
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6721	Posted - 2015.02.16 00:11:00 - [2] - Quote Appears that each Assault loses a slot. Am I reading correctly? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
The-Errorist 1049	Posted - 2015.02.16 00:31:00 - [3] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Appears that each Assault loses a slot. Am I reading correctly? Yes, as I wrote in the OP with reasons, I want all medium frames: basic, logistics, and assaults to progress 1 slot per tier and that's what it would look like instead of 2 slots per tier like we have now. Suits, Tanks, a mode
The-Errorist 1053	Posted - 2015.02.16 22:37:00 - [4] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Appears that each Assault loses a slot. Am I reading correctly? Do you have a problem with assaults progressing 1 slot per tier and if you do why? Suits, Tanks, a mode
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7234	Posted - 2015.02.16 23:09:00 - [5] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Appears that each Assault loses a slot. Am I reading correctly? Do you have a problem with assaults progressing 1 slot per tier and if you do why? so start 'em at 6 slots. Assaults are remarkably good with 8 slots and if fatties get toned down a bit, will be competitive. I like the current assault power and I don't run assault. I'm just honestly hoping for an alternative to the HMG that I can use that won't have the godawful DPS at edge of my wang range. AV
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6740	Posted - 2015.02.16 23:26:00 - [6] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Appears that each Assault loses a slot. Am I reading correctly? Do you have a problem with assaults progressing 1 slot per tier and if you do why? There are two ways to go about it, right? One way involves -1 slot at the highest level. Another involves +1 slot at the lowest level. Being that Assault usage suggests they're OP, one of these would be ill-advised. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7235	Posted - 2015.02.16 23:29:00 - [7] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Appears that each Assault loses a slot. Am I reading correctly? Do you have a problem with assaults progressing 1 slot per tier and if you do why? There are two ways to go about it, right? One way involves -1 slot at the highest level. Another involves +1 slot at the lowest level. Being that Assault usage suggests they're OP, one of these would be ill-advised. Bluntly I think assaults should be considered the go-to suits for most battlefield situations. AV
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6741	Posted - 2015.02.16 23:46:00 - [8] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Appears that each Assault loses a slot. Am I reading correctly? Do you have a problem with assaults progressing 1 slot per tier and if you do why? There are two ways to go about it, right? One way involves -1 slot at the highest level. Another involves +1 slot at the lowest level. Being that Assault usage suggests they're OP, one of these would be ill-advised. Bluntly I think assaults should be considered the go-to suits for most battlefield situations. I agree in principal, but Assaults need not be OP to meet this criteria. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7235	Posted - 2015.02.17 00:04:00 - [9] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Appears that each Assault loses a slot. Am I reading correctly? Do you have a problem with assaults progressing 1 slot per tier and if you do why? There are two ways to go about it, right? One way involves -1 slot at the highest level. Another involves +1 slot at the lowest level. Being that Assault usage suggests they're OP, one of these would be ill-advised. Bluntly I think assaults should be considered the go-to suits for most battlefield situations. I agree in principal, but Assaults need not be OP to meet this criteria. They aren't. Logis are UP, commandos are just sh*t, sents still need toning down, and scouts aren't the scourge of the field but they're still fking deadly. Honestly the HMG seems to be the only outlier, and the lack of strafing inertia. Given your average shooter, 90% of players usually gravitate to the line killer roles when the roles are balanced. Also people are buying assaults in preparation for the inevitable fatty nerf hammer AV
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6741	Posted - 2015.02.17 00:22:00 - [10] - Quote Fair points. Still, if this dude is saying Assaults need +1 slot, then this dude is wrong. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
The-Errorist 1053	Posted - 2015.02.17 02:36:00 - [11] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Appears that each Assault loses a slot. Am I reading correctly? Do you have a problem with assaults progressing 1 slot per tier and if you do why? There are two ways to go about it, right? One way involves -1 slot at the highest level. Another involves +1 slot at the lowest level. Given that Assaults are more likely OP than UP, one of these would be ill-advised. One way or another, medium frames progress with too many slots, and that needs to change. Suits, Tanks, a mode
The-Errorist 1053	Posted - 2015.02.17 02:40:00 - [12] - Quote Anyone have anything to say about the two types of logis and giving the basic medium frames another equipment slot at the cost of a module slot? Suits, Tanks, a mode
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7239	Posted - 2015.02.17 08:49:00 - [13] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Anyone have anything to say about the two types of logis and giving the basic medium frames another equipment slot at the cost of a module slot? I'm a logi tourist. I only run tgem when I'm in the mood to... you know... HELP people. Doesn't happen often. So I defer to actual logis on the matter. AV
The-Errorist 1056	Posted - 2015.02.17 17:38:00 - [14] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Anyone have anything to say about the two types of logis and giving the basic medium frames another equipment slot at the cost of a module slot? I'm a logi tourist. I only run tgem when I'm in the mood to... you know... HELP people. Doesn't happen often. So I defer to actual logis on the matter. Basic frames are supposed to be the generalist that people go to who want versatility and not specialization. Basic frames could logi and assault, but not nearly as well as those specialized at it (lacking slots and rifle skills to be best assault as well as lacking fitting bonuses and more equipment slots to be best logi). Also I am a logi on my main account Velvet Overkill; baseless accusations of someone not being an actual logi really doesn't help your argument or make this thread go in the right direction. Suits, Tanks, a mode
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 248	Posted - 2015.02.18 14:32:00 - [15] - Quote Wtf I'm dreaming or you wanna need the assault? At the all levels assault is one of the most balanced thing in this game. Assaults have the correct slots pg cpu and ehp, but aren't OP. And the slot progression in really good as it's at the moment. If the slot progression was +1, what would be the significance to use a proto suit instead of an advanced? You paid 3x more just for 1 mod? LOL. There are some changes which must be done, I agree with you, but need the assault is just the worst thing to do. 1) increase commando speed 2) biff the logi slot progression (as you said for the gallogi) I'm sorry for my bad English writting and comprehension.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7286	Posted - 2015.02.18 15:29:00 - [16] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Anyone have anything to say about the two types of logis and giving the basic medium frames another equipment slot at the cost of a module slot? I'm a logi tourist. I only run tgem when I'm in the mood to... you know... HELP people. Doesn't happen often. So I defer to actual logis on the matter. Basic frames are supposed to be the generalist that people go to who want versatility and not specialization. Basic frames could logi and assault, but not nearly as well as those specialized at it (lacking slots and rifle skills to be best assault as well as lacking fitting bonuses and more equipment slots to be best logi). Also I am a logi on my main account Velvet Overkill; baseless accusations of someone not being an actual logi really doesn't help your argument or make this thread go in the right direction. I said I am a logi tourist. Never said a damn thing about you. Put your pants back on. I simply dispute the need for assaults to lose a slot AV
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 6754	Posted - 2015.02.18 16:25:00 - [17] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I simply dispute the need for assaults to lose a slot Perhaps not now, but if the Assault usage gap continues to widen and/or Rattati's efficiency data suggests that they're OP, then -1 slot should be on the table. I think it a reasonable means of leveling the class out while maintaining intra-role parity, especially if the GA and CA Assaults are buffed in the form of better racial bonus. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
The-Errorist 1058	Posted - 2015.02.18 17:44:00 - [18] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Anyone have anything to say about the two types of logis and giving the basic medium frames another equipment slot at the cost of a module slot? I'm a logi tourist. I only run tgem when I'm in the mood to... you know... HELP people. Doesn't happen often. So I defer to actual logis on the matter. Basic frames are supposed to be the generalist that people go to who want versatility and not specialization. Basic frames could logi and assault, but not nearly as well as those specialized at it (lacking slots and rifle skills to be best assault as well as lacking fitting bonuses and more equipment slots to be best logi). Also I am a logi on my main account Velvet Overkill; baseless accusations of someone not being an actual logi really doesn't help your argument or make this thread go in the right direction. I said I am a logi tourist. Never said a damn thing about you. Put your pants back on. I simply dispute the need for assaults to lose a slot Saying "I defer to actual logis on the matter" means that you would only accept the opinions of actual logis and could imply that the person you are talking to is not an actual logi, so you wont listen to them. Killer's Coys wrote: Wtf I'm dreaming or you wanna need the assault? At the all levels assault is one of the most balanced thing in this game. Assaults have the correct slots pg cpu and ehp, but aren't OP. And the slot progression in really good as it's at the moment. If the slot progression was +1, what would be the significance to use a proto suit instead of an advanced? You paid 3x more just for 1 mod? LOL. There are some changes which must be done, I agree with you, but need the assault is just the worst thing to do. 1) increase commando speed 2) biff the logi slot progression (as you said for the gallogi) Commando are not up because of assaults. There are up because of the heavy,because it's hardly the same speed, the same scan, but less hp and not the HMG slot. Don't forget comma do have a dps increasing bonus and 2 lights weapons (!) so that's normal and logical assault have more slots and a better slot progression. Heavy : the HMG and a resistance bonus Commando : 2 light weapon and dps increasing bonus Scouts : cloak and scan Logi : support support support => slots Assault : weapons fitting bonus and bog slot progression I like all your idea (about the logi type I and II, the medium frame which has 2 equipment instead of 1) but for me the current slot progression (except for basic logi) is quite good for all of the dropsuit in this game. My opinion. We did wait to see the assault become back good (don't forget how it was between 1.8 and hotfix Charlie) and now it's a really good and balanced suit. Even between the STA - ADV - PRO slot progression. In case you haven't noticed, all light frames and heavies pay the same price for 1 more slot per tier and more PG/CPU. It doesn't really make sense for assaults to have 2 slots per tier. Commandos are UP for many reasons and this is just one of those reasons: the slot discrepancy gets bigger at every tier and by prototype, an assault can have more speed, damage, regen, and scan stats than a prototype commando. Suits, Tanks, a mode
Vulpes Dolosus molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 2998	Posted - 2015.02.18 19:04:00 - [19] - Quote Why bother with a sidearm Logi if you're also trying to give the assault/commando a unique role? That would just blur the line between them. I would also suggest a 3/4/4 equipment progression for logistics, making ADV suits more viable as logistics. Dust is there! I was real! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 248	Posted - 2015.02.19 11:33:00 - [20] - Quote Commando have 2 lights Heavy have heavy weapons Scout have cloak Logi and assault have modules. That's how I see it. And if we take the same way, what would be the slot layout (for example) for the gallente assault? Sta 1/3 Adv 2/3 Pro 2/4? So the scout would come back better than assault. Because they have the same spot layout, but scout has more pg/cpu, the scan advantage, the cloak and of course the hitbox and the mobility. So increase assault? Pro : 3/5 Adv 3/4 Sta 2/4? It would make the basic and Adv assault OP. So no. So.... Which way? Ok you wanna balance the slot layout progression, but as you see, in each way it would break the assault back. Assault is a very well-balanced class, don't change it. (same for logi, except for the Sta) I'm sorry for my bad English writting and comprehension.

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