DUST Search - @rattati AV Spreadsheet error

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Sgt Kirk wrote:

Cat Merc wrote:

I dunno.
A Galmando is a slowass and large unit, that has to move to fairly close quarters (60m MAX) to engage a tank with a PLC. Slow, large, and relatively squishy, against a tank well within its optimal range, doesn't blend well.

I don't think a PLC Galmando would be a problem, especially when you compare the amount of skill required to use it compared to other AV options. It's also the only AV main weapon that can't effectively deal with dropships without high amounts of luck.
It's the highest risk and highest skill AV option, and as such making it do LOLWTF amounts of damage in the right hands sounds about right.

Yet A certain Commando with a certain weapon can still out DPS a maxed out PLC and Galmando with a fire and forget no skill weapon.

Hey kirk.

I did the math. The math is in my sig.

Minmando does 3.6% more damage than a assault with 3 mods.

Sustained DPS (reloading) is 14%.

Go spew falsehoods elsewhere.

The minmando is a psychological advantage, not a real one.

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Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7179	Posted - 2015.02.13 20:08:00 - [1] - Quote There was a math error in the Plasma Cannon section of the AV spreadsheet as I was going over it. It has been corrected. I highly recommend not using the previous spreadsheet for the PLC as a balancing guide. I also recommend using the galmando for general attack. at galmando 5, with rapid reload 5, the PLC maxes out at 805 DPS. that reload speed is the key. For those looking at the numbers the PLC derived DPS numbers show over 1000. these numbers do not take into account that the PLC is a oneshot, and needs to be reloaded each time. it only accounts for the charge time. the correct number to look for is the sustained DPS on the far right of the spreadsheet model, right before PG/CPU costs. I cannot recommend buffs to the PLC so long as the commando role bonus remains reload speed. For those of you who cannot do math I included the Minmatar commando damage breakdown. DPS advantage: 3.8% Sustained DPS advantage (long term DPS including reloads): 14% DPS advantage. AV
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4957	Posted - 2015.02.13 20:33:00 - [2] - Quote I was worried about this, particularly because the Plasma Cannon is the most extreme example where reload spead has a significant effect on sustained DPS. Honestly the PLC feels almost right on a Gallmando....but given how much of a DPS buff it's getting from its role bonuses, I can see how people NOT in a Gallmando suit are feeling that it's underpowered. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7179	Posted - 2015.02.13 20:35:00 - [3] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: I was worried about this, particularly because the Plasma Cannon is the most extreme example where reload spead has a significant effect on sustained DPS. Honestly the PLC feels almost right on a Gallmando....but given how much of a DPS buff it's getting from its role bonuses, I can see how people NOT in a Gallmando suit are feeling that it's underpowered. if it gets a tweak, it'll be very slight to the charge time AV
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 2181	Posted - 2015.02.13 20:42:00 - [4] - Quote See now why I wanted to standardize PLC charge at .45s, change operation to 3% reload per level, and up the damage by a tier? It's essentially what the galmando does to the weapon. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7180	Posted - 2015.02.13 20:45:00 - [5] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: See now why I wanted to standardize PLC charge at .45s, change operation to 3% reload per level, and up the damage by a tier? It's essentially what the galmando does to the weapon. Oh believe me, I see it. Commandos have to be reworked in order to make the PLC independently viable. Did you see the numbers on the minmando? That's why I assert that the minmando explosive bonus is a purely psychological advantage AV
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4957	Posted - 2015.02.13 20:49:00 - [6] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: See now why I wanted to standardize PLC charge at .45s, change operation to 3% reload per level, and up the damage by a tier? It's essentially what the galmando does to the weapon. Changing the bonus to reload speed is effectively the same as lowering the reload speed, which doesn't change the difference you'll see between a Commando and everything else. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Cat Merc Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 15159	Posted - 2015.02.13 21:28:00 - [7] - Quote I dunno. A Galmando is a slowass and large unit, that has to move to fairly close quarters (60m MAX) to engage a tank with a PLC. Slow, large, and relatively squishy, against a tank well within its optimal range, doesn't blend well. I don't think a PLC Galmando would be a problem, especially when you compare the amount of skill required to use it compared to other AV options. It's also the only AV main weapon that can't effectively deal with dropships without high amounts of luck. It's the highest risk and highest skill AV option, and as such making it do LOLWTF amounts of damage in the right hands sounds about right. Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan! *Vote 'Keshava' for the new Gallente vehicle name!*
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7183	Posted - 2015.02.14 06:21:00 - [8] - Quote Bumping to make sure rattati sees this AV
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7183	Posted - 2015.02.14 07:10:00 - [9] - Quote Ok never mind I know what I screwed up. Two nights ago I was sleep deprived and exhausted from work trying to squeeze a little more DPS out of the PLC. Put the reload speeds I wanted in the wrong column like a dumbass. So yeah. Wut? Never claimed to be perfect. Just awesome. AV
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 9567	Posted - 2015.02.14 07:22:00 - [10] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: I dunno. A Galmando is a slowass and large unit, that has to move to fairly close quarters (60m MAX) to engage a tank with a PLC. Slow, large, and relatively squishy, against a tank well within its optimal range, doesn't blend well. I don't think a PLC Galmando would be a problem, especially when you compare the amount of skill required to use it compared to other AV options. It's also the only AV main weapon that can't effectively deal with dropships without high amounts of luck. It's the highest risk and highest skill AV option, and as such making it do LOLWTF amounts of damage in the right hands sounds about right. Yet A certain Commando with a certain weapon can still out DPS a maxed out PLC and Galmando with a fire and forget no skill weapon. *~New Eden's #1 Gallente Arm's Dealer*

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7184	Posted - 2015.02.14 07:54:00 - [11] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I dunno. A Galmando is a slowass and large unit, that has to move to fairly close quarters (60m MAX) to engage a tank with a PLC. Slow, large, and relatively squishy, against a tank well within its optimal range, doesn't blend well. I don't think a PLC Galmando would be a problem, especially when you compare the amount of skill required to use it compared to other AV options. It's also the only AV main weapon that can't effectively deal with dropships without high amounts of luck. It's the highest risk and highest skill AV option, and as such making it do LOLWTF amounts of damage in the right hands sounds about right. Yet A certain Commando with a certain weapon can still out DPS a maxed out PLC and Galmando with a fire and forget no skill weapon. Hey kirk. I did the math. The math is in my sig. Minmando does 3.6% more damage than a assault with 3 mods. Sustained DPS (reloading) is 14%. Go spew falsehoods elsewhere. The minmando is a psychological advantage, not a real one. AV
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 9567	Posted - 2015.02.14 08:02:00 - [12] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Cat Merc wrote: I dunno. A Galmando is a slowass and large unit, that has to move to fairly close quarters (60m MAX) to engage a tank with a PLC. Slow, large, and relatively squishy, against a tank well within its optimal range, doesn't blend well. I don't think a PLC Galmando would be a problem, especially when you compare the amount of skill required to use it compared to other AV options. It's also the only AV main weapon that can't effectively deal with dropships without high amounts of luck. It's the highest risk and highest skill AV option, and as such making it do LOLWTF amounts of damage in the right hands sounds about right. Yet A certain Commando with a certain weapon can still out DPS a maxed out PLC and Galmando with a fire and forget no skill weapon. Hey kirk. I did the math. The math is in my sig. Minmando does 3.6% more damage than a assault with 3 mods. Sustained DPS (reloading) is 14%. Go spew falsehoods elsewhere. The minmando is a psychological advantage, not a real one. Are you really going to hit your targets with a PLC? The most I can hit a Dropship with is two and that second one is a stretch. If they know what they are doing then after the first shot they are out. Similar with ground vehicles. Damage application has to be looked at as well you know and you better calm your tone down before I get hostile with you. *~New Eden's #1 Gallente Arm's Dealer*
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7184	Posted - 2015.02.14 08:06:00 - [13] - Quote Don't you threaten me. I give a rat's ass What you think of me. And there's nothing you can do TO me that I give a crap about.. so stow it. I'll talk to you the way I talk to everyone else who spreads anecdote as evidence. But the swarms alone do that DPS. You vomiting MINMANDO! MINMANDO! THE SKY IS FALLING! that crap covers the actual problem. So if you don't want me to call you out have the good sense to get your facts straight before you sh*tpost. AV
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 9568	Posted - 2015.02.14 08:10:00 - [14] - Quote lol I'm sensing an ego problem in the area. *~New Eden's #1 Gallente Arm's Dealer*
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7184	Posted - 2015.02.14 08:29:00 - [15] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: lol I'm sensing an ego problem in the area. nah. I just don't take anyone seriously after they cite the minmando when it's the actual WEAPON that is the source of headaches. AV
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2908	Posted - 2015.02.14 13:24:00 - [16] - Quote A guy that doesn't play the game getting this much say... Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 7184	Posted - 2015.02.14 14:42:00 - [17] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: A guy that doesn't play the game getting this much say... What say, numbnuts? I can make suggestions and if rattati finds them reasonable he might use them. OMG AVspiracy to ruin DUST just for you. I don't have any say, any more than you do. I was pointing out that I had a math error on the current AV values breakdown. I have no idea if it made it into his notes. Wanted to make sure Rattati didn't miss it and accidentally overbuff the PLC. Despite the thought of Cat Merc and Pokey diving on you with plasma cannons screaming "WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW???" I figure if the thought tickles me that much it's probably bad for game balance. So. Have you come to be constructive, or can we expect your usual raft of sh*tposting? AV
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4959	Posted - 2015.02.14 18:34:00 - [18] - Quote Basically his point is Both Gallente Commando and Minmatar Commando give +10% to their respective AV weapon, that's part of the role. However the reload bonus only offers a very small advantage to the Minmatar/Swarm combo, but a very large advantage to the Gallente/PLC combo. So aside from each salvo doing more damage, the Minmatar Commando swarm bonus is not that excessive. That aside, if an issue exists between the damage application between the PLC and the Swarms, that really lands on the weapon's performance and has little to do with the Commando. His concern was that making the PLC more viable for classes other than the Gallente Commando, would make it overpowered with the Gallente Commando. It would seem he made a math error, and this is a non issue. Additionally, I think Breakin and I both agree that the was Swarms are working is not correct, and that their damage application is a little TOO certain. How to address this is obviously up in the air at the moment, but the fact remains that they do need some work. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders 2919	Posted - 2015.02.14 19:45:00 - [19] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: A guy that doesn't play the game getting this much say... What say, numbnuts? I can make suggestions and if rattati finds them reasonable he might use them. OMG AVspiracy to ruin DUST just for you. I don't have any say, any more than you do. I was pointing out that I had a math error on the current AV values breakdown. I have no idea if it made it into his notes. Wanted to make sure Rattati didn't miss it and accidentally overbuff the PLC. Despite the thought of Cat Merc and Pokey diving on you with plasma cannons screaming "WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW???" I figure if the thought tickles me that much it's probably bad for game balance. So. Have you come to be constructive, or can we expect your usual raft of sh*tposting? Damn, I felt that burn through my screen. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Spkr4theDead Red Star. 2910	Posted - 2015.02.15 14:21:00 - [20] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: A guy that doesn't play the game getting this much say... What say, numbnuts? I can make suggestions and if rattati finds them reasonable he might use them. OMG AVspiracy to ruin DUST just for you. I don't have any say, any more than you do. I was pointing out that I had a math error on the current AV values breakdown. I have no idea if it made it into his notes. Wanted to make sure Rattati didn't miss it and accidentally overbuff the PLC. Despite the thought of Cat Merc and Pokey diving on you with plasma cannons screaming "WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW???" I figure if the thought tickles me that much it's probably bad for game balance. So. Have you come to be constructive, or can we expect your usual raft of sh*tposting? You don't play the game. You can't make adjustments if you don't know what you're adjusting from. Nope. Confirming that pilot input is not, and never was, valued. - Breakin Stuff



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