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Pseudogenesis
Nos Nothi
1741
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Posted - 2015.02.13 06:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
Full disclosure: I don't play much FW. I'm just trying to offer the perspective of a relatively casual player trying to get into one of Dust's most unique and important game modes.
So for a while now I've been trying to grind for an Apex suit. I want that tasty, tasty minlogi but I've met with only moderate success thus far and usually get discouraged after a match or two. However, today I sat down, poured myself a cup of tea, popped on an active booster and said "Let's do this." Got a little squad together, hit the queues and spent what I'd estimate to be over 20 million ISK, 4 hours and countless tears trying to get LP. I didn't win a single match.
"Ah, so this is a QQ post," you might be saying to yourself, sipping Quafe in your fancy prototype armchair, but that's not the case. My blueberries were having a bad day; that's fine. I'm okay with losing. Almost every match was a queuesynced stompfest; that's fine too. FW should be difficult, and I've always wondered what getting fisted was like. My afternoon has been frustrating, not because I lost, but because I didn't GET anything for losing.
I tried my damnedest today. I smashed my expensive, handsome face against that wall of heavies and viziam scrambler rifles again and again, and for my all time, money and effort I was rewarded with roughly 2500 LP. 2.5% of a BPO that could not possibly recoup the ISK spent trying to acquire it.
To add insult to injury, every loss netted me exactly zero standings with my faction. When I started I was close to gaining another level in standings, and when I finished I was in exactly the same position. No matter how many leaderboards I topped, no matter how many pathetic clone bodies I donated to the cause, my faction didn't see fit to give me even the slightest payraise. Not even the slightest progress towards the slightest payraise!
FW is a zero sum game, and to some extent that's a good thing. It shouldn't just be pubs 2.0, where it doesn't matter whether you win or lose. But when queues are this long, and games are this hard, the loser shouldn't receive such pathetically tiny compensation.
So my proposal/TL;DR: Give factional standings a modifier based on team contribution even when you lose, and increase LP payouts slightly for the losers. Obviously winning should be greatly incentivized (this is New Eden after all), but when you feel like you're making zero progress every time you lose that's just a bad user experience. I can't even imagine how a newbie must feel trying out FW for the first time. I believe that a solution can be found that is fair to both the winners and the losers, and that rewards participation and effort more.
Thoughts?
Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ
I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
7828
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Posted - 2015.02.13 06:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
I think this would encourage more people to play FW, particularly for historically losing factions.
Its supposed to be something in between PC and Pubs for competitiveness, but fails at that without enough incentive to fight in even a losing effort.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
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Talos Vagheitan
Ancient Exiles.
929
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Posted - 2015.02.13 06:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Factional Daily missions!
Who cares what some sniper has to say.
CCP, let's push for the license of Dust/Legion on both current Gen consoles!
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Lady MDK
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
284
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Posted - 2015.02.13 07:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
I dont play FW but.....
Somehow i expected the opening post to be caldari. Are you a posting alt?
Anyone getting annoyed by reading of the above post should consider the following.
I don't care so neither should you :)
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Pseudogenesis
Nos Nothi
1745
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Posted - 2015.02.13 09:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lady MDK wrote:Somehow i expected the opening post to be caldari. Are you a posting alt?
I made the post race agnostic to make it more relatable. If you're curious, I was running MinFW.
Minmatar is winmatar.
Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ
I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
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Bayeth Mal
Nos Nothi
2371
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Posted - 2015.02.13 12:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'm not sure if I agree with you there Pseudo.
FW is supposed to be the inbetween for pubs and PC.
It's the only open game mode where you're able to sync squads.
The payouts for a win are actually really high, especially once you get your standing up.
I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure it has been estimated to be worth 700k+ ISK at the highest tier (may be a memory error).
Since the FW changes over a year ago I have never gone into it without a full squad and it's really rare for it not to be 2 squads syncing in. I've come away from some really great matches where the other side was stacked as well.
But I've also watched 15 randoms go afk only for the one poor bastard who actually put up a fight to lose his mind and go on a team killing rampage.
Where was I going with this? Oh, right.
The payout for a loss in PC is nothing. Nada. Zilch.
FW is the game mode between pubs and PC.
FW has a payout system for losses that is between those two extremes.
Raising FW payouts for losses would encourage afk farming or just messing around solo in a BPO.
If you win. Great! More money than a pubmatch! If you lose? No real loss, you get a good payout anyway.
And you end up relying on other players in squads to carry you through.
If anything we should be annoyed that the guy in 1st place gets the same rewards as the guy who came last.
At least in pubs the best of the losers get paid more than the worst of the winners.
We'll bang, OK?
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Pseudogenesis
Nos Nothi
1753
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Posted - 2015.02.13 13:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bayeth Mal wrote:The payout for a loss in PC is nothing. Nada. Zilch.
FW is the game mode between pubs and PC.
FW has a payout system for losses that is between those two extremes.
I agree. I don't want to devalue winning, just to make the penalty for losing less harsh. Having about 50% of your matches in a game mode be essentially futile isn't a good thing, especially if we're trying to encourage players to get into FW. I don't think LP payouts need much tweaking, but the faction standing XP needs to be based on team contribution instead of just winning. That way you can at least feel like you're working towards bigger payouts even though you aren't making much right now.
Stabby-stabber extraordinaire Gû¼+¦GòÉGòÉn¦ñ
I stabbed Rattati once, you know.
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
5330
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Posted - 2015.02.13 13:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Should probably be based around wp acquired
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
The Incursions are back... and they're golden baby!
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Sergei Domar
Rautaleijona
41
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Posted - 2015.02.13 13:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Then again
You actually got into the fw match. Lately in euro tz we haven't had any FW matches available, until very late (2200-2300 evetime). FW around 1600-1900 gametime? Nope, useless to wait. I got full squad ready to deploy just to realize there is nobody to fight against. I do both Gallente/Minmatar factional.
It's not just about reward there for winning/losing fw. Full protosquad or not, if you don't get match to begin with, there is no way you can get these rewards from factional. You have to give players reason to do Factional insteads of pubs, if they risk more expensive kit and lose it, reward should be higher too.
There is no easy solution for that, I did post one suggestion to F&I earlier about how match queue should be shown to players, but that didn't catch much attention.
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Terry Webber
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
579
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Posted - 2015.02.13 13:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Maybe FW can be improved if only squads can participate. Solo players will be rejected and better matches would be the result. |
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Bayeth Mal
Nos Nothi
2374
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Posted - 2015.02.13 22:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Pseudogenesis wrote:Bayeth Mal wrote:The payout for a loss in PC is nothing. Nada. Zilch.
FW is the game mode between pubs and PC.
FW has a payout system for losses that is between those two extremes.
I know, and I agree. I don't want to devalue winning, just to make the penalty for losing less harsh. Having about 50% of your matches in a game mode be essentially futile isn't a good thing, especially if we're trying to encourage players to get into FW. I don't think LP payouts need much tweaking, but the faction standing XP needs to be based on team contribution instead of just winning. That way you can at least feel like you're working towards bigger payouts even though you aren't making much right now.
Ok... I can kind of see the point there. That might not be too bad.
We'll bang, OK?
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