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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Jathniel
Ahrendee Mercenaries
1473
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Posted - 2015.02.13 08:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
You really really do NOT need to buff that TAR. It's literally my primary weapon.
On it's own, it's already extremely effective. With triple-damage mods, it's essentially as powerful as the old-school scrambler pistol..... except with range.
It's not under-performing. My guess is most people just don't like the kick. You CANNOT. I repeat. *CANNOT* safely make that gun ANY stronger damage wise.
You can PROBABLY get away with a 25m range buff, without breaking it. Or a 10% kick reduction. But....... Do NOT increase the mag size. Do NOT increase the damage. Do NOT increase the rate of fire. Do NOT improve hip fire accuracy. The TAR is borderline to the lethality it had in 1.0, and that will break it.
Retired
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Jathniel
Ahrendee Mercenaries
1474
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Posted - 2015.02.14 09:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
I use the TAR frequently. Have a few videos posted where I use it. It's a very niche weapon that needs the correct environment. Scrambler Rifle is better and it's probably not surprising to anyone that I started using it in place of my TAR. TAR can't make up for the ability to charge shot, longer range, etc. I've had a long drawn out argument about this in another thread.
If you want the TAR to be more competitive, needs to have something that'll compete with the Scrambler Rifle - which won't happen because the Scrambler rifle is just outright better. TAR would need excruciatingly high alpha damage to make up for a lack of charge, range, etc. No-one will allow that for fear of it being OP.
The TAR already has dreadfully high alpha damage. With damage mods it's a nightmare. Some folks just haven't rediscovered it yet. I respect the Scrambler Rifle, but the TAR was meant to imitate, not surpass it. It's in a good spot.
Just some extra range. Give it a some reach, and it'll be used more. At the moment, the TAR has better zoom than the scrambler rifle, but less range.
Let it rival the scrambler rifle's range, and I guarantee you will see increased usage. But damage buffs would put it over the edge.
Retired
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Jathniel
Ahrendee Mercenaries
1474
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Posted - 2015.02.14 15:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Jathniel wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
I use the TAR frequently. Have a few videos posted where I use it. It's a very niche weapon that needs the correct environment. Scrambler Rifle is better and it's probably not surprising to anyone that I started using it in place of my TAR. TAR can't make up for the ability to charge shot, longer range, etc. I've had a long drawn out argument about this in another thread.
If you want the TAR to be more competitive, needs to have something that'll compete with the Scrambler Rifle - which won't happen because the Scrambler rifle is just outright better. TAR would need excruciatingly high alpha damage to make up for a lack of charge, range, etc. No-one will allow that for fear of it being OP.
The TAR already has dreadfully high alpha damage. With damage mods it's a nightmare. Some folks just haven't rediscovered it yet. I respect the Scrambler Rifle, but the TAR was meant to imitate, not surpass it. It's in a good spot. Just some extra range. Give it a some reach, and it'll be used more. At the moment, the TAR has better zoom than the scrambler rifle, but less range. Let it rival the scrambler rifle's range, and I guarantee you will see increased usage. But damage buffs would put it over the edge. Oh lord, here we go with the whole "it's an imitator and shouldn't be competitive against it because it's not the real thing". Seriously, I really do hate that argument, it's archaic and out-dated. With that logic, all the Assault variants should pale in comparison to the Assault Rifle but they don't. In some cases, in particular the ARR, they're even better. It's -always- been that way. The constant misconception that a weapon has to be worse than a similar weapon just because of some concept a CCP Dev put down two years ago shouldn't even be a thing anymore. If anything we should have evolved from that with racial takes on the variations including their own unique flare to make the weapon competitive; and by that logic the TAR would have -much- higher damage than the Scrambler Rifle while simultaneously having lower range. The question you have to ask: "What is the functionality of this weapon if it is an imitator that isn't competitive with the other weapon?" Functionless gameplay is a waste of time. If your idea doesn't serve a purpose, providing something new and unique that we don't already have, then it doesn't need to be implemented because we already have that. Making something "kinda similar but not as powerful because #reasons" is just annoying, adds repetition, and punishes players for making the wrong choices.
o0
I didn't say it shouldn't be competitive... I said it shouldn't surpass it. And not "because reasons", but "because balance". The TAR doesn't hit harder than the SCR commensurate to the SCR's range.
If we simply increase the TAR's range to approximate the SCR, that will make it an overall more competitive weapon, without supplanting the weapon it's meant to imitate. Increasing it's damage would be like using an ice pick to do a tooth pick's job; it would increase damage at range, but also make it OP within its optimal.
As you said, I am one of those that fear a damage buff would make it OP. A moderate range buff however, would not.
Arguing whether variants should be better than a family of weapons is moot. You want comparable performance, adaptive as per the situation or target you are facing. We have good balance right now with weapons, but accepting some weapons as UP is not something we should accept, whether or not "its always been that way".
Retired
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Jathniel
Ahrendee Mercenaries
1476
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Posted - 2015.02.14 22:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Pagl1u M wrote:We need the kills/spawn ratio of hmg It's too damn high, ranking with top tier rifles. I am working on Hotfix Echo, where the plan is to rein in the range, and nothing else. They are too effective in "rifle" range why aren't we looking at reversing the role and making them vulnerable in CQC and deadly at long range? There's only so many more nerf options before the stupid thing gets pushed off a cliff. I'm not trying to be high and mighty or condescending. I'm honestly believing CQC HMGs aren't working, haven't worked as intended since their inception and making them and the Sentinel platform a CQC thing was a bad idea to begin with. We also need to consider that in my experience most HMG engagements and kills happen at 20m or less. Sentinels hug CQC areas like it's their lifeline to force people to fight them on optimal terms for them. Anything inside 20m is chutney, so that's where the hits tend to happen. until you drop the HMG below shotgun optimal these nerfs are going to be a zero-sum effort because a logi and tight spaces will do the work and they will continue racking up kills. It'll also see more fatties resorting to tactics like murder taxis to bypass the range restrictions. Ejecting sentinels from CQC is, in my opinion, the best answer.
Well, I think I like the track you're on, but I can't picture what you're trying to say.
Are you suggesting repurposing the HMG as a mid-long range weapon? I look at these things intuitively and I cant see how that would address its overperforming.
I was guessing that the HMG was doing well, because it was being used exactly as it was designed to be; and that the only reason we are seeing such high heavy/hmg usage is because the sockets were designed that way (by order of CCP Remnant, whom I still can't forgive over it). Folks were so obsessed with keeping snipers out of the fight, that they directly created the circumstances where heavies would thrive. So what exactly do you have in mind?
Retired
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Jathniel
Ahrendee Mercenaries
1476
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Posted - 2015.02.15 07:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Jathniel wrote: So what exactly do you have in mind?
put the HMG heavies in a situation where their ideal combat arena is filled with snipers, forge gunners and rail rifles, ideally. If the HMG sucks ass in CQC this breaks the Heavy > All meta in half and forces people to use heavies to keep people out of the facilities entirely, by using them at entrances as overwatch, locking down open fields, etc, and NOT participating gleefully in the knife-fighting. If someone's in knife range the heavy should bluntly be dogmeat unless he's LUCKY.
That's a tough one......
I can see pulling this off as a redesign of the HMG to mimic the Breach FG. - Can't move when firing. - Super narrow firing cone with hyper-extended range and camera zoom, to put it into the long-range playing field.
As a caveat for this repurposing, I would make it effective against vehicles, triple the mag size/max ammo, and cut heat buildup by 50%. I would also give Sentinels a pinch of bandwidth and give them an equipment slot, to carry a hive or an uplink.
Proper positioning would be critical, to properly transform the Sentinel from a CQC lurker into a living, mobile, turret.
That's quite a change though. I wouldn't expect to hear people backing such a radical transformation for the HMG.
Retired
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