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CCP Rattati: A Plea For Caution

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DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15727	Posted - 2015.02.12 18:55:00 - [1] - Quote I see you seem to be considering more AV buffs to help handle tanks, which is all well and good, but I just wanted to make this into its own thread to highlight one obvious thing, just in case: Dropships (and LAVs) are not tanks. Any buff to anything other than PLC at this point will force dropships into obscurity. Right now, you live or die most of the time by literally one to two seconds. If you take any longer than that to properly respond to any given threat, you die. And, while frustrating, thats mostly ok. Go buffing AV without adjusting our hp to compensate (or return native resists) and we will lose that one to two second window, and die horrible deaths with little to no ability to react and survive. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15729	Posted - 2015.02.12 20:13:00 - [2] - Quote Im only concerned with assets that actually exist right now, or in the near future. There is still no info on when or even if vehicles will get higher tier hulls, so we cant as non CCP / CPM account for those shadow factors. Also, speaking of things that dont exist, there is no anti shield av save PLC, flux grenades, and large blasters. If you would see AV buffed to handle tanks, without compensating dropships and LAVs in return, you will have everything in the game except shield HAVs woefully underpowered in all aspects Hence, the thread, cautioning CCP to tread lightly and slowly on this matter. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15730	Posted - 2015.02.12 20:21:00 - [3] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: I agree with your concern but since the vehicles currently are basic should they not be balanced as basic, being weak to stronger av? Unfortunately no, they shouldnt, because that means that no matter how much Sp you pour into your role, you will ALWAYS be inferior and subject to losing massive amounts of ISK no matter how well you operate your vehicle. Basic vehicles can only be balanced as basic when all options exist, allowing for progression. Otherwise, you just doom pilots to a life of misery and rage. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15730	Posted - 2015.02.12 20:26:00 - [4] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: and pilots dont have that effect on infantry now? Only if that team spawns no AV in response. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15730	Posted - 2015.02.12 20:30:00 - [5] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Ku Shala wrote: and pilots dont have that effect on infantry now? Only if that team spawns no AV in response. more specifically if the team is unlucky enough to not have someone who runs dedicated AV More specifically still if that team is unlucky enough to not use installations or free damage stacked rail tanks. Should vehicles take 1000% damage from small arms fire to compensate for that teams lack of preparedness? How does the enmy not spawning AV factor into a V vs AV discussion? My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15732	Posted - 2015.02.12 21:37:00 - [6] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: What buffs to AV have you heard about? I haven't heard of any nor do I think any ate needed. In Spkrs thread about continual shield regen or whatever, rattati breaks down his personal experience vs tanks and shows at least a slight interest in buffing AV. Also, the HAV initiative calls for higher tier hulls, yet no word on when other vehicles will recieve similar treatment. Im just afraid he will buff AV to handle new tanks without giving other vehicles the same treatment for months on end. Ive been here long enough to know how this goes haha, as have you if im not mistaken My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15732	Posted - 2015.02.12 21:47:00 - [7] - Quote And that would be a welcome change, so long as balancing happens all at once. We can't balance basic vehicles as trash vs proto AV till we have proto vehicles of all types actually in the game My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15732	Posted - 2015.02.12 21:58:00 - [8] - Quote Ku Shala wrote: correct me if im wrong but the higher level vehicles were removed to make balancing av easier? so the vehicles we have now must be treated as basic because that is what they are. balance them so they act as proto and that will leave the scale off centre and we have the same problems we had before they were removed. Its an unfortunate step that pilots will pay the price for. vehicles are similar to dropsuits, fit a basic suit with proto modules and passive skills and you have a suit that is similar to a proto suit that is where vehicles are now Or Keep it as is, and only roll out the new balance changes when ALL vehicles can be addressed at once, instead of creating a horrible AV vs v imbalance for possibly months on end My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15742	Posted - 2015.02.13 04:06:00 - [9] - Quote DRT 99 wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Should vehicles take 1000% damage from small arms fire to compensate for that teams lack of preparedness? How does the enmy not spawning AV factor into a V vs AV discussion? Vehicles are already immune to most weapons in the game, and youre saying "Its their fault that they died to a vehicle because they werent pidgeonholing themselves into AV" And im saying, what do you want? Infantry only game? Sorry, thats not what it is. Im saying AV is a thing, and you need to live with it, or adjust your approach in battle accordingly. If no one wants to call in a sica with a rail and damage mods that costs exactly 0 Sp to deploy, then thats on your team. I just dont get what is you want is all. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15753	Posted - 2015.02.13 15:33:00 - [10] - Quote I think anti ahield AV needs to be introduced, so yes, I do feel that buffing AV without compensating will be a problem. Most people struggle with shield vehicles, then call for AV buffs, not realizing how much damage they currently do to armor. You cant fix AV imbalance till an effective anti shield option becomes available, and that only Rattat can help you with. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"

DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15765	Posted - 2015.02.14 15:44:00 - [11] - Quote I haven't seen Aeon so butthurt since he lost the CPM election. Its refreshing :3 Anyways, I wish we could get some proposed numbers from Rattati for dropship progression like he's provided for HAVs (at least in concept) so we have a better idea what buffs will be reasonable in light of the vehicle changes. All I know is if Legion becomes a thing, it NEEDS a damn test server. Would make our lives so much better haha My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15765	Posted - 2015.02.14 15:53:00 - [12] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I haven't seen Aeon so butthurt since he lost the CPM election. Its refreshing :3 Anyways, I wish we could get some proposed numbers from Rattati for dropship progression like he's provided for HAVs (at least in concept) so we have a better idea what buffs will be reasonable in light of the vehicle changes. All I know is if Legion becomes a thing, it NEEDS a damn test server. Would make our lives so much better haha Let's get through the HAV rebalance and see where the chips fall. I dunno about rattati but theorycrafting numbers for balance is nothing short of headache inducing. Doing dropships at the same time as HAVs would probably induce me to punch a hole through the work station. But if the HAV rebalance works then dropships should be easier. Im just really scared of having a month or two where AV is buffed to handle new tanks, making flying all but impossible for that time. Or, inversely, they buff tanks and leave AV as is, resulting in op tanks. I wish they could do all this stuff internally first. Get everything hammered out on their side, then roll it out all at once. Doing it piece by piece is jarring at best, particularly since we have to pay out of pocket for our assets. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"
DUST Fiend Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 15769	Posted - 2015.02.14 19:57:00 - [13] - Quote I mean keep the feedback and dialogue with us going, but dont actually roll out changes untill its all done, in one big update. My YouTube (currently inactive) Homeless Dropship Enthusiast "See You Space Cowboy"

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