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KA24DERT
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
1030
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Posted - 2015.02.14 11:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:PS3 production stops in March next year... Yes, time to get busy with the PS4.
The world is advancing, don't let Dust 514 fall behind. So the logical conclusion is to make it on another console that in eight years will be replaced (even though the hardware on it is already out-dated) and we'll be right back in the same situation? Now that consoles have transitioned to x86 this isn't reall that big of a deal. The upgrade cycle from CCP's standpoint would basically be the same as dealing with normal advances in computers, gpus, etc.
Even if the PS4 is x86, console makers still hyper-optimize their development kits for the particular hardware. Developers also in turn optimize with their own tweaks based on hardware features and idiosyncrasies.
This is why the PS4 can outperform a similar spec PC. The PC is running a general purpose OS, and the games are (mostly) programmed against generic frameworks. That genericness provides compatibility at the cost of computational overhead.
If the PS3 were x86 based, they probably would've used a 32 bit dual core processor since that's what was affordable back then, and they might've used an nvidia chip for graphics. Now the cheap processors are 64 bit, and 8 cores, and they come with a free ATI CPU. Sony would've had to redo their development kit even if the PS3 were x86 based. Now what do you think x86 CPUs will look like in 5-6 years? What will be out when it comes time to design the PS5? It just becomes easier to make a new "platform" every console generation rather than trying to transcend multiple generations of hardware, otherwise you'll have to start adopting the generic PC approach, and incur those performance costs.
Even then, there are market forces preventing your scenario from happening. Why doesn't XboxOne have backwards compatibility with the Original Xbox? They're both x86 after all. Well, in addition to any technical hurdles, console makers are addicted from the revenue of making people re-buy their old games on the "new" platform.
In regards to CCP, they'd probably benefit more from the familiar, slow-paced, long-lived PC development cycle, then to ever risk being stranded on a dead platform ever again. Also, I'm certain that the PSN patch release process has been a thorn in CCP's side since they launched Dust. Developing for a console makes you someone's *****, and I'd be surprised if they're not tired of it.
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KA24DERT
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
1030
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Posted - 2015.02.14 11:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
The future of this game is dependent on expanding beyond the PS3/PS4.
PC is the next step to ensure the long term health of this game.
Almost every one of you people posting on these forums is a $150 graphics card away from having a rig capable of playing UE3/4 based games. Hell, many of you probably don't even need an upgrade, you can just dial the graphics down to the current PS3 fidelity and start playing.
So please, stop with the crying.
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KA24DERT
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
1032
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Posted - 2015.02.14 19:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
TerranKnight87 wrote:KA24DERT wrote:The future of this game is dependent on expanding beyond the PS3/PS4.
PC is the next step to ensure the long term health of this game.
Almost every one of you people posting on these forums is a $150 graphics card away from having a rig capable of playing UE3/4 based games. Hell, many of you probably don't even need an upgrade, you can just dial the graphics down to the current PS3 fidelity and start playing.
So please, stop with the crying.
Crying about people crying. 10/10 I have a decent rig as well but this game would be pretty sht on pc where heavies turn in the blink of an eye with their hmg. Imagine the amount of nerf threads. I'll take an insta-360 Heavy over a Heavy with AA any day.
The Team Fortress series has been dealing with your dreaded Heavy scourge for almost 20 years, and it's doing just fine.
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KA24DERT
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
1034
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Posted - 2015.02.14 19:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Planetside 2 is pretty fun on PC, more fun than I ever had playing Dust on PS3. With Daybreak imploding they are poised to capture a pretty solid market on PC.
However... imo they should just disconnect Dust 514 from tranquility and let it be non-canon to the universe and IP. Start Legion on PC as the connected version of planetary combat and move Dust 514 to the PS4. In this way there can still exist a sci fi shooter with a New Eden theme and they can do whatever they want with the game without worrying about its impact on EVE. Removing roadblocks like trading and manufacturing should be relatively simple and the isolated code base should mean an easier time working on Dust.
I don't think EVE players will be pleased if Legion doesn't make it to the PC. I know that most people on here don't care what the greater EVE population thinks but CCP does and should. I no longer believe in the vision that a set coupled games affecting the outcome of each other should exist on hardware that cannot play both games. If the PS4 is not the main platform for EVE I don't believe it should be the main platform for Legion either. Makes no business sense to maintain two separate projects. Let alone the third project to spin up and maintain a stripped down tranquility cluster for Dust to talk to. Or write and maintain some tranquility stub api server. Especially if all that effort is to provide an isolated jail that has no bearing on the Eve universe and is destined to fizzle out. It'd be a total waste of everyone's time.
Honestly if i were CCP, I'd scrap Legion and just port Dust to PC, and once they get a handle on that, release Dust for PS4 with cross-platform play.
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KA24DERT
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
1034
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Posted - 2015.02.15 19:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
GLOBAL RAGE wrote: UE4's new licence pricing, and Project Morpeus are the deciding elements. AMD is directly involved with SONY in regards to Morpheus, and SONY is in AMAZON's AWS Cloud already with CCP's battle servers.
CCP has a shot at "greatness" on the PS4.
Sorry, pet peeve, but I need to deflate some of the mysticism around "The Cloud".
Here's how to get on Amazon's Cloud:
1) Sign up for AWS 2) Spin up an EC2 instance
Tada, you are now a cybercloud e-pioneer. Dot Com.
Your other points are about as relevant as sony being in the cloud. Bottom line is that the PS3 has a bigger install base than the PS4, and PC has a bigger install base than the PS3. If Dust is close to death on the PS3, why go to a SMALLER install base? The next jump should be on the platform with the most players and the most profit.
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KA24DERT
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
1034
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Posted - 2015.02.15 20:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
TerranKnight87 wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote:PS3 production stops in March next year... Yes, time to get busy with the PS4.
The world is advancing, don't let Dust 514 fall behind. So the logical conclusion is to make it on another console that in eight years will be replaced (even though the hardware on it is already out-dated) and we'll be right back in the same situation? Is it logical to support hosed over clocked, virus infected winblows desktops, that with a litle C# will become hacked-up aimboting wall hacking hero machines? Haha. Yeah i see the interest in gaming moving to console. Pc gaming for the most part is ending up nowadays to not be worth devs time for many reasons and i prefer pc myself but it's becoming evident. The gamers on pc are spread out loads and to give an idea of what the players are going for, farming simulator had more players watching and playing than planetside 2. There's much better games on pc but the gamers tend to gravitate to pure sht like goat simulator, dota 2, league of losers and farming simulator. Devs then inevitably have to waste a fk ton of money constantly fending off hackers and they have to dev for a ridiculous amount of hardware variations. It all boils down to money and it's much easier to make money on console now. No hackers or at least they can't really hack, one hardware spec and a concentrated playerbase. They can then charge around -ú60 per game and then premium on top. I've been pc gaming since 95 and i have loved it but it is more than clear that pc gaming is circling the toilet. All the above bs will or probably is the norm for the newer pc generation where all that bs is normalised for them, like inflation. The hacking threat on PC is overblown. And if you use Valve Anti Cheat, you can offset the overhead of the constant back and forth battle with hackers and let Valve handle it.
Also, keep in mind that hacking in Dust is different than hacking in Counterstrike. You can always make a new steam ID and get back into Counterstrike. But if you're caught cheating in Dust, you will lose all your character and all assets. 90% of the cheating that goes on will be limited to throwaway accounts on Pubs, and it will be as rare as encountering a cheater on a PC FPS.
Also, it is absolutely NOT easier to make money on a console. Almost everyone has a PC, and there's tons of free game SDKs for PC. Almost anyone can go to a local game developer meetup and get a tutorial on Unity and crank out an example game in a week. How many people have PS4 development kits lying around? When the barrier of getting your game onto a store shelf or onto PSN is so high, how can you possibly make that claim?
The fact that Goat Simulator sold so many copies proves the point. The PC gaming audience is so large and so diverse that almost anyone can make money if they have a good/funny game concept.
In regards Goat simulator being more popular than Planetside 2. Goat simulator promised you hilarious bugs while messing with goats, and Goat Simulator delivered hilarious bugs. Sony promised you excellent gameplay and a fun experience, and Sony delivered hilarious bugs.
If PC gaming is circling a toilet, it's a toilet of wierd and new concepts in gaming. If Console gaming is circling a toilet, it's a toilet of repetitive rehashes.
Once audience will be open to your silly game about goats, the other wants endless COD clones.
Dust will have an easier time finding an audience on PC.
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KA24DERT
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
1046
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Posted - 2015.02.21 21:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
GLOBAL RAGE wrote:KA24DERT wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote: UE4's new licence pricing, and Project Morpeus are the deciding elements. AMD is directly involved with SONY in regards to Morpheus, and SONY is in AMAZON's AWS Cloud already with CCP's battle servers.
CCP has a shot at "greatness" on the PS4.
Sorry, pet peeve, but I need to deflate some of the mysticism around "The Cloud". Here's how to get on Amazon's Cloud: 1) Sign up for AWS 2) Spin up an EC2 instance Tada, you are now a cybercloud e-pioneer. Dot Com. Your other points are about as relevant as sony being in the cloud. Bottom line is that the PS3 has a bigger install base than the PS4, and PC has a bigger install base than the PS3. If Dust is close to death on the PS3, why go to a SMALLER install base? The next jump should be on the platform with the most players and the most profit. Your head is in the clouds if you cannot grasp how AWS can help with match making and latency mitigation. WINBLOWS gaming is dead, grow a pair of thumbs! Actually AWS's EC2 instances are pretty famous for having terrible performance and IO in general, especially for their smaller instances. It's so bad they actually started advertising "Fast Network" on their extra large instances, for the low price of $200 a month. A dedicated server or "Private Cloud" is a much better fit for game server hosting. I've tested EC2 myself, it's not that great, there are cheaper and faster options out there.
Also, Steam is trying very hard to transcend windows, and their populations are pretty healthy for being dead: http://store.steampowered.com/stats/
There's 8 million people online currently, never mind the people who have their machines off, or who have their Steam client closed, or the people who aren't using Steam for gaming...
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KA24DERT
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
1046
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Posted - 2015.02.22 01:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
GLOBAL RAGE wrote:KA24DERT wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:KA24DERT wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote: UE4's new licence pricing, and Project Morpeus are the deciding elements. AMD is directly involved with SONY in regards to Morpheus, and SONY is in AMAZON's AWS Cloud already with CCP's battle servers.
CCP has a shot at "greatness" on the PS4.
Sorry, pet peeve, but I need to deflate some of the mysticism around "The Cloud". Here's how to get on Amazon's Cloud: 1) Sign up for AWS 2) Spin up an EC2 instance Tada, you are now a cybercloud e-pioneer. Dot Com. Your other points are about as relevant as sony being in the cloud. Bottom line is that the PS3 has a bigger install base than the PS4, and PC has a bigger install base than the PS3. If Dust is close to death on the PS3, why go to a SMALLER install base? The next jump should be on the platform with the most players and the most profit. Your head is in the clouds if you cannot grasp how AWS can help with match making and latency mitigation. WINBLOWS gaming is dead, grow a pair of thumbs! Actually AWS's EC2 instances are pretty famous for having terrible performance and IO in general, especially for their smaller instances. It's so bad they actually started advertising "Fast Network" on their extra large instances, for the low price of $200 a month. A dedicated server or "Private Cloud" is a much better fit for game server hosting. I've tested EC2 myself, it's not that great, there are cheaper and faster options out there. Also, Steam is trying very hard to transcend windows, and their populations are pretty healthy for being dead: http://store.steampowered.com/stats/There's 8 million people online currently, never mind the people who have their machines off, or who have their Steam client closed, or the people who aren't using Steam for gaming... IO off an array, a dust server is probably cacheable so I'd question the comparison. My family has a number of steam accounts and our ps3's and 4's are much more active. The steamOS is in danger of becoming a disaster, if not already a fiasco of monumental proportions. How much longer will the folks at companies like ASUS and Gigabyte stay silent after their 10's of millions of invested capital languish in perpetual stagnation. Steam is in trouble! An FPS game server is basically the most uncachable thing in the world, especially in Dust where there's no per-server unique game assets(maps, models, textures, and the rest are distributed with the game via PSN, not at connect time to a game server). Most of what a game server does is keep track of client locations and relay those locations to other clients. How the hell do you cache that?
Answer: You can't.
What you need for a good FPS game server is pure speed, and that is exactly what EC2 doesn't have. Even assuming you had an FPS game server that was deployable as a multi-node cluster, EC2 will still be terrible because the networking between EC2 instances is slow and unreliable. You'd have to get a special setup with Amazon to ensure all your instances spin up within the same physical location in their datacenter, and at that price point you're better off going with real hardware.
But all that is besides the point, as I said Dust using/not using AWS is a non factor( and if they ARE using AWS, it's probably the reason certain maps always stall at certain parts of the game....).
SteamOS, just like their Linux and Mac ports, are crucial to avoid letting Microsoft define PC gaming. This is good for everyone. Even if SteamOS fails, Valve isn't going out of business any time soon, as they are probably the world's single largest distributor of non-mobile games.
I'm happy that your family is playing your PS4, and I'd be happy for a PS4 port in the future, but in the meantime, and for ease of development/deployment/growth, PC is where Dust needs to go to grow up.
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KA24DERT
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
1047
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Posted - 2015.02.22 22:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Meee One wrote:KA24DERT wrote:GLOBAL RAGE wrote:KA24DERT wrote:Actually AWS's EC2 instances are pretty famous for having terrible performance and IO in general, especially for their smaller instances. It's so bad they actually started advertising "Fast Network" on their extra large instances, for the low price of $200 a month. A dedicated server or "Private Cloud" is a much better fit for game server hosting. I've tested EC2 myself, it's not that great, there are cheaper and faster options out there. Also, Steam is trying very hard to transcend windows, and their populations are pretty healthy for being dead: http://store.steampowered.com/stats/There's 8 million people online currently, never mind the people who have their machines off, or who have their Steam client closed, or the people who aren't using Steam for gaming... IO off an array, a dust server is probably cacheable so I'd question the comparison. My family has a number of steam accounts and our ps3's and 4's are much more active. The steamOS is in danger of becoming a disaster, if not already a fiasco of monumental proportions. How much longer will the folks at companies like ASUS and Gigabyte stay silent after their 10's of millions of invested capital languish in perpetual stagnation. Steam is in trouble! An FPS game server is basically the most uncachable thing in the world, especially in Dust where there's no per-server unique game assets(maps, models, textures, and the rest are distributed with the game via PSN, not at connect time to a game server). Most of what a game server does is keep track of client locations and relay those locations to other clients. How the hell do you cache that? Answer: You can't. What you need for a good FPS game server is pure speed, and that is exactly what EC2 doesn't have. Even assuming you had an FPS game server that was deployable as a multi-node cluster, EC2 will still be terrible because the networking between EC2 instances is slow and unreliable. You'd have to get a special setup with Amazon to ensure all your instances spin up within the same physical location in their datacenter, and at that price point you're better off going with real hardware. But all that is besides the point, as I said Dust using/not using AWS is a non factor( and if they ARE using AWS, it's probably the reason certain maps always stall at certain parts of the game....). SteamOS, just like their Linux and Mac ports, are crucial to avoid letting Microsoft define PC gaming. This is good for everyone. Even if SteamOS fails, Valve isn't going out of business any time soon, as they are probably the world's single largest distributor of non-mobile games. I'm happy that your family is playing your PS4, and I'd be happy for a PS4 port in the future, but in the meantime, and for ease of development/deployment/growth, PC is where Dust needs to go to grow up. Nerd!But seriously,look how many games have made money on consoles. -Metal gear -Final fantasy -Mario -Halo -Resident Evil Aka biohazard in japan -Even COD And as all these games prove,you don't need top teir graphics. You just need to target the American audience more effectively. Look at PSY-Gungnam style,Americans couldn't understand a word of it,but it sounded good and made him rich. A port and targeted ads are what Dust needs,not to retreat because they're scared of consoles. Dust,right now,is making gaming history as the first transgaming experience. Firsts are never easy otherwise someone would've done it before. Dust can be a shining star in the possibility of games with CCP getting publicity for it. Or can be the stain of 'what if' because they pull out before it takes off. As i said before firsts aren't easy,but will be the most rewarding for those that overcome the challenge. Are you seriously comparing that list of games to DUST?
Most of the games you listed are top-tier examples of the video game art form, and in the case of Mario and Halo, are system movers. Nintendo could make Mario for a toaster, and Nintendo will sell a billion toasters.
Dust is not in that league.
Dust is a game that is still in development, and that development is being hampered by the restrictions of developing on a console. Moving Dust to PC (for now) will let CCP develop the game at a much faster pace, on a platform much more familiar to them, and that will let them work out the major kinks before coming back to consoles with a much more mature and complete product.
In my mind, PS3 is the larval stage, PC will be the pupae, and PS4+PC will be the final form. But the game's not going to mature properly as long as CCP's caught in a back and forth with Sony for every release.
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