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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
8331
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Posted - 2015.02.04 02:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Maybe when things like sprinting, firing, jumping, etc actually have an affect on profile... Otherwise, this is sort of over-powering...
What drawbacks would there be to using a cloak, exactly? The shimmer effect doesn't need to be touched because of the toupee fallacy when it comes to all the times it's been said that "it's too easy to see cloaked scouts".
A slight reduction in the drawbacks to scan range isn't unreasonable but if a Scout is already getting the best of both worlds (profile -and- precision) then why should he have the range as well..? Because he doesn't have the same EHP as my Assault? One could argue that because my Assault doesn't have the same EWAR abilities that it should get a sizable EHP and DPS buff to compensate; it's the same shoe on a different foot.
Your only goal is get behind and close enough for an insta-gib. My goal is being able to find you and keep target long enough to kill you while being completely visible to everything else on your team. I don't think it's unreasonable that you should have to use your eyes to survey an area instead of relying entirely on your scanners when I have to do the same thing...
The cloaking device in and of itself is primarily a Scout tool and thereby the problems associated with it are limited to Scouts. It is nigh impossible to fit a cloaking device with any degree of ease on anything else, even at the standard level, due to high resource costs. Take pride in the fact that this function and it's drawbacks are unique to your specialization.
EDIT: Also, as I was told when I went into the Barbershop to politely discuss things... How's about you guys go back to the Barbershop or whatever skype channel you crawled out of?
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
8332
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Posted - 2015.02.04 02:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote: I'm sorry that a few the guys were rude to you, Aeon. They're a tough crowd at times, but they know their knives and they mean well. In hindsight, I should've seen it coming; should've advised you in advance to bring thick skin. Either way, wish you had stuck with it. It was a fun experiment.
-Shrug-
Maybe you guys should try being on the receiving end as an Assault sometime.
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
8335
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Posted - 2015.02.04 03:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:I'm sorry that a few the guys were rude to you, Aeon. They're a tough crowd at times, but they know their knives and they mean well. In hindsight, I should've seen it coming; should've advised you in advance to bring thick skin. Either way, wish you had stuck with it. It was a fun experiment. -Shrug- Maybe you guys should try being on the receiving end as an Assault sometime. Everyone but me has one. If you count the MN Assault as an Assault :-)
That's cool.
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
8350
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Posted - 2015.02.04 05:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
gustavo acosta wrote:
The Barbershop is just a circle jerk of "scouts" that apparently "know what a scout is supposed to do," and I am against everything it stands for .
The shimmer is a draw back but a necessary one.
Yes, exactly a scout using nothing but E-war will never be as useful as an assault HP tanking, at least not in the current state of E-war. The fact that seeing 30m on a suit that has to sacrifice almost all their Hp capabilities, at least in a perfect world, is reason enough to remove the 85% reduction to range. Classifying scouts all into 1 playstyle is really bad reasoning, scouts can and should be able to perform other roles beyond just not being seen, and maybe seeing people. An assault that has no E-war equipped can still scan other suits from a decent distance, so that is a false comparison.
That sentiment would not be shared, the one about being fine with the cloak because it's "unique," if there penalty to what your role bonus encouraged, honestly.
You mean like movement speed reductions on armor plates and increased depleted delay/reduced shield capacity on shield modules..?
Tell me, what does our role bonus encourage, exactly..? Reduced fitting costs on weaponry? Dispersion reductions? Reload speed increases? Don't make me laugh dude, at least Scouts have a legitimate and verifiable role in this game. Assaults and Commandos are so mixed and meshed together no-one even know what they're supposed to do besides be cannon fodder for Scouts and Heavies.
Sir Dukey wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Maybe when things like sprinting, firing, jumping, etc actually have an affect on profile... Otherwise, this is sort of over-powering... What drawbacks would there be to using a cloak, exactly? The shimmer effect doesn't need to be touched because of the toupee fallacy when it comes to all the times it's been said that "it's too easy to see cloaked scouts". A slight reduction in the drawbacks to scan range isn't unreasonable but if a Scout is already getting the best of both worlds (profile -and- precision) then why should he have the range as well..? Because he doesn't have the same EHP as my Assault? One could argue that because my Assault doesn't have the same EWAR abilities that it should get a sizable EHP and DPS buff to compensate; it's the same shoe on a different foot. Your only goal is get behind and close enough for an insta-gib. My goal is being able to find you and keep target long enough to kill you while being completely visible to everything else on your team. I don't think it's unreasonable that you should have to use your eyes to survey an area instead of relying entirely on your scanners when I have to do the same thing... The cloaking device in and of itself is primarily a Scout tool and thereby the problems associated with it are limited to Scouts. It is nigh impossible to fit a cloaking device with any degree of ease on anything else, even at the standard level, due to high resource costs. Take pride in the fact that this function and it's drawbacks are unique to your specialization. EDIT: Also, as I was told when I went into the Barbershop to politely discuss things... How's about you guys go back to the Barbershop or whatever skype channel you crawled out of? There is no point to precision if your range is like 7m. It's like a car, there is no point in big fuel tank if it is electric. You can't utilize precision with low range and you cant utilize big gas tank in a mostly electric car.
So I suppose that is you giving permission for Assault suits to have a longer short-range scan..? You act like having a small scan radius is somehow unique to Cloaky Scouts or something. #DealWithIt
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
8376
|
Posted - 2015.02.04 14:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
gustavo acosta wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
You mean like movement speed reductions on armor plates and increased depleted delay/reduced shield capacity on shield modules..?
Tell me, what does our role bonus encourage, exactly..? Reduced fitting costs on weaponry? Dispersion reductions? Reload speed increases? Don't make me laugh dude, at least Scouts have a legitimate and verifiable role in this game. Assaults and Commandos are so mixed and meshed together no-one even know what they're supposed to do besides be cannon fodder for Scouts and Heavies.
So I suppose that is you giving permission for Assault suits to have a longer short-range scan..? You act like having a small scan radius is somehow unique to Cloaky Scouts or something. #DealWithIt
No, if you have an armor module it doesn't negate anything on a suit completely. Whereas the cloak completely negates any passive scanning, no matter how many slots one dedicates to the suit. Laugh all you want, the point of role bonuses is to steer players to do as the suit was intended. That's why sentinels get a reduction to heavy weapons, assaults to light weaponry. I've said earlier any issues regarding the cloak from the scout community, not the forum community, would be easily remedied if E-war or the cloak was completely removed. If you want to complain about disparity go make a thread about it. Don't come to a thread where players are having legitimate issues with how something is functioning. And no the scout doesn't have a clear role considering that the only piece of equipment that scouts get a role bonus to penalizes them for using a suit in its intended fashion. Assaults have better range than a cloaked scout so... Also, just realized you just pulled that pre-buff assault argument right out of you rectum, What the heck man I thought this was supposed to be a discussion and you're bringing up irrelevant information. The assault is currently the meta so I don't know why you're complaining their role is to kill, and they excel at it...
There are two scouts that have anything to do with precision as far as role: The Caldari, with it's increase scan range and the Gallente, with it's (minor) bonus to precision.
Of which, -both- of them receive a profile reduction built into the suit through skills and that does not include the use of modules. While I could -maybe- see the argument that it's "going against what the role intends", that logic only applies to these two racial suits considering the Amarr and Minmatar are geared for different things. Even still, you're asking for semi-invisibility, tactical invisibility, and the ability to see things on tacnet without having to change your fittings at all.
If they removed the penalty completely, you would have the best of everything in EWAR and not have to fit anything besides a cloaking device. What drawbacks are there? What stops a scout from brick tanking and just being generally god mode over everything else in that case?
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
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Aeon Amadi
Chimera Core
8429
|
Posted - 2015.02.05 05:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
gustavo acosta wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
There are two scouts that have anything to do with precision as far as role: The Caldari, with it's increase scan range and the Gallente, with it's (minor) bonus to precision.
Of which, -both- of them receive a profile reduction built into the suit through skills and that does not include the use of modules. While I could -maybe- see the argument that it's "going against what the role intends", that logic only applies to these two racial suits considering the Amarr and Minmatar are geared for different things. Even still, you're asking for semi-invisibility, tactical invisibility, and the ability to see things on tacnet without having to change your fittings at all.
If they removed the penalty completely, you would have the best of everything in EWAR and not have to fit anything besides a cloaking device. What drawbacks are there? What stops a scout from brick tanking and just being generally god mode over everything else in that case?
EDIT: That being said, if Scouts aren't slayers then what good is having precision on the cloaking device for any reason other than to gimmick-predator-kill whoever you're trying to ride up on..?
Actually there are 3 Amarr being the one you forgot, however all the scouts get a role bonus to the cloak so that means they are all encouraged to use it. I honestly don't see an issue with being in a paper thin suit(because that's what it takes to scan anything beyond 20m range)being semi-hard to see, and having 30m of scan range where you can see most enemies, when you've dedicated your suit to it. Again you wouldn't sing the same tune if every armor repairer made your assault lose all hp tanking abilities. That's not true at all, even in E-wars current state it takes too much resources to have suit that's good at scanning, and good at bricking. Though I do agree that the bonuses should have been moved to module efficacy to prevent brick tanking scouts from gaining any benefit from their bonus, however in the current state of things it would be a bad idea, and nobody cares enough to push for it anymore. Beyond that brick tanking scouts are a farce to player, assault have taken the reigns of the best slayer, as it should be. The argument about scouts shouldn't be good at every type of E-war is a funny one. Apparently no one has an issue when someone has sufficient armor reps and armor tank, or sufficient shield tank, regeneration, and delay reduction, but when the scouts try it with their intended role everyone has to wet themselves about it. Tell me, what stops a gallente assault from having 30+hp/s reps and 700 ehp, what's stopping a caldari assault from getting 76 hp/s with a 2 second delay and 500+ shields? Nothing at all. The reason that scouts have cloaks and "scans" is because if they dedicate their suit to E-war they won't have sufficient HP to survive engagement thus they must avoid the engagement until they have ample time/chance to attack without throwing their suit away like an idiot.
No-one has an issue with someone having sufficient armor reps and armor tank because it has hard-counters: Mass Drivers, Core Locus Grenades, Small Missile Turrets, HMGs.
No-one has an issue with someone having sufficient shield tank, regeneration, and delay reduction because it has hard-counters: Scrambler Rifles, Flux Grenades, getting a single round on them with any weapon to prevent shields from recharging.
You know what the counter is for EWAR? EWAR. You counter profile dampeners by running an Active Scanner, which in the case of the Focused scanner (the one geared toward Scouts) has an insanely high cool-down, insanely low angle, and is so incredibly niche that the only suit it's really viable on is a Gallente Logistics... Which is even more amusing because there was this initiative (that passed, btw) for -ALL- Scouts to be able to get beneath a Focused Scanner even on a Gallente Logi with max skills.
So please explain to me what the counter is for that?
As far as range and precision, are we expecting that every other player is now required to hopelessly profile tank in place of their main tank -just- to deal with Scouts that have both Tactical Invisibility and Visual Invisibility..? What is the counter toward this if I can never profile dampen low enough to get beneath a Scout's precision, let alone a Gallente Logi's..?
Do you see the flaw here or are you still convinced that Cloaky Scouts have some unfair disadvantage?
Have a suggestion for the Planetary Services Department?
Founder of AIV
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