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Roy Ventus
Axis of Chaos
1854
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Posted - 2015.01.30 18:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
If a sword would work on the battlefield?
I've read articles about Gallente scientists trying to develop a bladed weapon, much like the Caldari branded Nova Knives, that would change the way we combat the enemy. From the articles I've read, it seems to me that they're going for a long bladed, maybe two-handed, style. They have two prototypes. One they call "Fujin" and the other "Raijin"
Fujin is designed to be much more lightweighted than it's counterpart, allowing one to swing rapidly and not eat up too much stamina from the use. Raijin, on the other hand, is a bit bulkier, and thus makes for slower and weaker strikes, but has the same "charging" option as a Nova Knife, the only difference being that one must sheath it to let it charge. Once the blade is finished charging, it's speed increases for a brief second and allows you to strikes down an enemy swiftly. While it probably be a smart thing to use as an assault or logistics, I could see it being useful for a scout. Charge it up, slash at the enemy and chop them down if they survive. Unlike the nova knives, it seems like you could use both to hit multiple targets at once instead of focusing on just a single target, and at a greater, albeit still CQC focused, range.
What do you guys think? I feel like we're ready for this. Some may call it silly, but I'd find it cool to watch some immortal mercenaries duke it out with swords. If I had one of these bad boys, I'd probably rack up on the kills with it. Imagine being cloaked and then slashing up a couple of mercenaries who happened to walk down the wrong corridor?
(OOC: THIS IS NOT A PITCH. well kinda is. BUT I JUST WANTED TO SEE HOW PEOPLE WOULD RESPOND TO IT. I DON'T BELIEVE CCP IS LOOKING TOWARDS IMPLEMENTING MORE MELEE WEAPONS RIGHT NOW BUT I WAS THINKING OF THE IDEA FOR SOME RP/FF/WRITING. good day.)
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
http://royventus.tumblr.com
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Roy Ventus
Axis of Chaos
1855
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Posted - 2015.02.02 04:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:The sword is an outdated and altogether ineffective weapon and something associated with an outdated age of conflict we no longer need nor should want to return to. The rifle is the technology of our age and forever will be. The sword is something that is now ceremonial. It is the symbol of the ageing traditionalist who proposed one seek wisdom from the past rather than looking to the future to ensure the slow decay of the progressive.
I suppose it speak from a more philosophical standpoint that was intended for this discussion however the notion of including such useless and archaic technologies into military rotation somewhat irks me. It is the way of my people to look to the future of such military technologies, to innovate, and combine the new with the old.
It would set a negative precedent for us to look backwards when a great many possibilities extend ahead of us that we can strive towards. It has no place on the battlefield in our time though that's not to say that I do not appreciate the artistry of the craft or the weapon itself.
I think it would be effective. A special purpose weapon specifically for those of the swift-foot. Flank the enemy from behind and deliver clean cuts to the back, preferably the head if possible.
To me, it's not an attempt at stopping progression. It's an attempt at looking at ideals of the past and taking them to the future, with a few enhancements here and there.
Again, it wouldn't be for direct combat. It would be used in the same tactical space as the Nova Knives which are also specialized weapons. The main difference? These swords would be used instead in wider and longer ranges, and essentially for multiple targets in one shot. Unlike the Nova Knife, there's literally less room for failure. The negative side? The weapon, while lighter than swords of the past, would still be heavier than the Nova Knife and make it harder to swing than two knives.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
http://royventus.tumblr.com
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Roy Ventus
Axis of Chaos
1856
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Posted - 2015.02.02 17:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Myofibril Stimulants already work well in my opinion. I believe that a long bladed weapon would be too clumsy in CQC. Only a retractable and small weapon would be useful. Anyways, with the current success of Nova Knives any new dropsuit based m+¬l+¬e weapon would struggle to gain a following unless it offered a benefit that the Caldari blades currently lack.
Ahh but it does.
I believe you all are missing a few keys points of these swords' design.
Giving an assassin better range and the ability to hit multiple enemies at once is something I could see myself using, especially in tight quarters where enemies are bound to bunch up. I mean in a situation where you're about to initiate a sneak attack on multiple enemies in a very close quarters formation, as an assassin, would you rather have a weapon that would only be effective against one person at a time, albeit faster at charging and swinging, or a weapon that could swing at multiple people at one time with great damage and potentially give you a high alpha damage through the raijin's sheathed charging ability?
Gentleman, I'd always pick the latter.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
http://royventus.tumblr.com
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Roy Ventus
Axis of Chaos
1859
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Posted - 2015.02.04 12:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Roy Ventus wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Myofibril Stimulants already work well in my opinion. I believe that a long bladed weapon would be too clumsy in CQC. Only a retractable and small weapon would be useful. Anyways, with the current success of Nova Knives any new dropsuit based m+¬l+¬e weapon would struggle to gain a following unless it offered a benefit that the Caldari blades currently lack. Ahh but it does. I believe you all are missing a few keys points of these swords' design. Giving an assassin better range and the ability to hit multiple enemies at once is something I could see myself using, especially in tight quarters where enemies are bound to bunch up. I mean in a situation where you're about to initiate a sneak attack on multiple enemies in a very close quarters formation, as an assassin, would you rather have a weapon that would only be effective against one person at a time, albeit faster at charging and swinging, or a weapon that could swing at multiple people at one time with great damage and potentially give you a high alpha damage through the raijin's sheathed charging ability? Gentleman, I'd always pick the latter. It is still and outdated weapon , moreover it is incredibly situational and unreliable where a simple rifle would suffice to fill that role and then some. It's purported merits do not outweigh the incredibly limited applications of the weapon on modern battlefields where conflicts require flexibility of the participant forces. Not only this but significantly more intensive training and more skilled operatives would be required of modern forces and mercenary companies in order to deploy such soldiers with effectiveness, and to market those kinds of soldiers as the forefront of military technology would not be a simple task. There remains no role for this weapon where a singular entrenched position can decimate entire columns of soldiers and HAV rumble across the battlefield with relative impunity amidst orbital cannon fire.
It's as incredibly limited as Nova Knives and Cloaks. Most people shouldn't be using them in the majority of their situations, however they are incredibly effective for those who do use them and are in the right situations. Again, most of these people are scouts. The high-speed, high-agility, and capability for stealth and evasion makes them the perfect candidates. Simply, all that these swords do is offer an option for melee weapons. It's as simple as choosing whether or not to have a sword or a knife. Both effective, but with different capabilities such as swinging speed, damage, strike range, potential for hitting multiple targets, etc.
Can you really argue a difference between the nova knives and these, if you will, plasma swords and not make the nova knives seem just as useless?
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
http://royventus.tumblr.com
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Roy Ventus
Axis of Chaos
1859
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Posted - 2015.02.04 22:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
My friend, these swords can do half of the things you seem to think only the nova knives can do.
They can multiple enemies multiple times, deal out just as much if not more damage, depending on which variation you get, and are extremely useful in assassinations, as there's no point of concealing weapons on a battlefield unless you're concealing your complete presence and that can be done with a cloak.
Yes, these blades are slower to swing than knives, but they pack a lot of punch for a weapon that can hit multiple enemies within one swing and with a larger range of damage than the shorter ranged knives. With the nova knife, you'd have to focus directly on one enemy at a time and be closer than ever to your enemy, which means you really have to come up with a new array of tactics. The plasma blades would need a new set of tactics as well but unlike the nova knives, as long as you position yourself correctly, you can hit multiple enemies at the same time and at a greater range. And if you didn't, you could continue swinging while in movement until your enemies down. Now with the raijin, you'd be able to pack even more damage with the charging feature, albeit a little slower to swing, most hits would kill the attacker in one strike.
You all seem to lack the taste for innovation, oddly enough, by believing these swords, which have been intended for combat use, are not to be use as intended.
There's nothing functionally wrong with the nova knives. I'm not arguing that they're the lesser weapon. They're clever and extremely potent. I would be an idiot to argue that these swords are just unarguably better than the nova knife.
What I'm saying is, it will grant a lot of potential for CQC situations that the nova knives couldn't offer. A few scenarios play in my head every time speak, as I try myself to argue the usefulness of the swords.
Imagine yourself cloaked in an underground bunker for a null cannon installation. You're infiltrating the objective to perform a bait and switch so that the enemy team at the other null cannons ease up their grip to come defend the contested objective. You know for a fact that it's not vacant and as you come into the room where the interface is located, you see three mercenaries guarding the interface at the center of the room in a triangle formation with enough space in between them that using nova knives would be extremely difficult. However, you packed a Plasma Sword in this fitting. After making sure no one else was in the room, or nearby, you lunge at the first mercenary, killing him in two swings. The other mercenaries quickly reacted but the one to his left was already clipped by the second strike, and was easily to kill with a flawless extra swing. Now the third one is trying to make a gap in distance as he realizes what's going on, but he's too slow and too close for the tactic to not be in vein. Within two strikes, he's dead.
You see, if you had nova knives this would be much more difficult. After taking the first enemy down, you would have died because you couldn't swing at multiple targets. Not only that, but even if you had killed the second one, the third merc would've been right outta reach and left you in a dangerous situation. I would've said that this would be impossible if it wasn't for the fact that some mercenaries are such proficient users of the nova knives that enemy a distanced enemy would be possible for a hit.
I mean, and that's not the only scenario.
Camping in a spot and waiting on multiple tangos to walk by in tight clusters and then cutting through their formation like butter.
Multiple assassins using stealth and coordination to take out about seven or more mercenaries mercenaries in a frenzy of confusion and death.
Sneaking up behind a sentinel and using the raijin's charge feature to break their armor down to the point that you would only need one swing or two to quickly dispatch them.
There's many ways it can be used.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
http://royventus.tumblr.com
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Roy Ventus
Axis of Chaos
1859
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Posted - 2015.02.05 01:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I don't give a damn how hard you swing your stick, it has nothing on energy shields and modern armour plating.
The sword is an archaic weapon that is not suited to the modern battlefield.
You seem to be ignorant of the fact that it's using similar tech to the nova knives...
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
http://royventus.tumblr.com
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Roy Ventus
Axis of Chaos
1859
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Posted - 2015.02.05 01:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Roy Ventus wrote:My friend, these swords can do half of the things you seem to think only the nova knives can do.
They can multiple enemies multiple times, deal out just as much if not more damage, depending on which variation you get, and are extremely useful in assassinations, as there's no point of concealing weapons on a battlefield unless you're concealing your complete presence and that can be done with a cloak.
Yes, these blades are slower to swing than knives, but they pack a lot of punch for a weapon that can hit multiple enemies within one swing and with a larger range of damage than the shorter ranged knives. With the nova knife, you'd have to focus directly on one enemy at a time and be closer than ever to your enemy, which means you really have to come up with a new array of tactics. The plasma blades would need a new set of tactics as well but unlike the nova knives, as long as you position yourself correctly, you can hit multiple enemies at the same time and at a greater range. And if you didn't, you could continue swinging while in movement until your enemies down. Now with the raijin, you'd be able to pack even more damage with the charging feature, albeit a little slower to swing, most hits would kill the attacker in one strike.
You all seem to lack the taste for innovation, oddly enough, by believing these swords, which have been intended for combat use, are not to be use as intended.
There's nothing functionally wrong with the nova knives. I'm not arguing that they're the lesser weapon. They're clever and extremely potent. I would be an idiot to argue that these swords are just unarguably better than the nova knife.
What I'm saying is, it will grant a lot of potential for CQC situations that the nova knives couldn't offer. A few scenarios play in my head every time speak, as I try myself to argue the usefulness of the swords.
Imagine yourself cloaked in an underground bunker for a null cannon installation. You're infiltrating the objective to perform a bait and switch so that the enemy team at the other null cannons ease up their grip to come defend the contested objective. You know for a fact that it's not vacant and as you come into the room where the interface is located, you see three mercenaries guarding the interface at the center of the room in a triangle formation with enough space in between them that using nova knives would be extremely difficult. However, you packed a Plasma Sword in this fitting. After making sure no one else was in the room, or nearby, you lunge at the first mercenary, killing him in two swings. The other mercenaries quickly reacted but the one to his left was already clipped by the second strike, and was easily to kill with a flawless extra swing. Now the third one is trying to make a gap in distance as he realizes what's going on, but he's too slow and too close for the tactic to not be in vein. Within two strikes, he's dead.
You see, if you had nova knives this would be much more difficult. After taking the first enemy down, you would have died because you couldn't swing at multiple targets. Not only that, but even if you had killed the second one, the third merc would've been right outta reach and left you in a dangerous situation. I would've said that this would be impossible if it wasn't for the fact that some mercenaries are such proficient users of the nova knives that enemy a distanced enemy would be possible for a hit.
I mean, and that's not the only scenario.
Camping in a spot and waiting on multiple tangos to walk by in tight clusters and then cutting through their formation like butter.
Multiple assassins using stealth and coordination to take out about seven or more mercenaries mercenaries in a frenzy of confusion and death.
Sneaking up behind a sentinel and using the raijin's charge feature to break their armor down to the point that you would only need one swing or two to quickly dispatch them.
There's many ways it can be used. That's not innovation that's compromising the tactical integrity of a unit where other weapons would simply fill the role better and be more suitable should the nature of the engagement drastically alter. Leave these things for the Tenal Gladiatorial Circuits to pick up, they have no longer have place in military operations. There are far more effective methods of killing that only require a soldier learn to utilise his biologically enhanced body properly.
Isn't a sword to an experienced user, nothing more than an extended part of their body? Couldn't the same be said about a rifle? When I grip my gun, I don't notice the small measurements I make, the complexities of understanding the flow of battle, the ability to understand my tactics like I was born with them. A lot of this is instinct. Pure instinct. A swordsman knows this. A merc knows this. You don't think to yourself "I need to position myself right here, prepare to spin, and use the left door as an exit," you just do it.
And again, I've yet to see an actual, proper, argument why the nova knives clearly dominates most of the capabilities of these plasma swords.
I've stated in many times and honestly, I'm afraid the only thing you have banking up your feelings is simple opinion.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
http://royventus.tumblr.com
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