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Reiki Jubo
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
455
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Posted - 2015.01.30 14:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
we heard a lot of blashblahblah about the weapons lab and the virtual trainer where corps could test weapons and practice w/o losing clones and equipment. why would Dust not have this at launch? this is a game where weapons have a real cost and the SP to use them does too! why not have a place where we can try the weapons out before learning stuff like the PLC is a piece of crap that doesnt do enough dmg?
just a horrible decision. iteration is folly if u dont have all the basic ground floor stuff in first. |
Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
7219
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Posted - 2015.01.30 15:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP wrote:Because it's haaaaaaaaaaard /me rolls over on couch. /me grabs cookie dough tube. /me eats the entire tube in four bites. /me naps.
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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RayRay James
Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance
943
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Posted - 2015.01.30 15:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Because CCP and my boss both have the same mentality.
The best way to teach someone how to swim is to throw them off a boat
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Aramis Madrigal
Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance
353
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Posted - 2015.01.30 15:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:Because CCP and my boss both have the same mentality.
The best way to teach someone how to swim is to throw them off a boat
I hope he's not a swim coach...or a flight instructor... |
Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
7220
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Posted - 2015.01.30 15:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:Because CCP and my boss both have the same mentality.
The best way to teach someone how to swim is to throw them off a boat Eve Online is famous for its crazy learning curve, and even it has a dozen or so tutorial missions where you learn how to fire your weapons, which weapon systems are good against what, flying your ship, etc.
We have the academy. That's it. As far as NPE goes, it's pretty much the worst way to educate a new player.
We need* a kind of "virtual reality" training room where you can try out a new weapon. Maybe some simple AIs that strafe back and forth or jump around. The ability to select specific NPC "dummys" to fire at; for instance, an Amarr sentinel dummy you can shoot at to determine how quickly your new anti-armor fitting is going to work. Make sense?
Just something to allow people to get a feel for the game before getting their b-holes rocked in pubs.
*: Yes, I'm using the word "need". It's not a ******* nice-to-have. We NEED this. Dust needs to retain newberrys now more than ever.
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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al nize mk2
No Skillz inc.
275
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Posted - 2015.01.30 15:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Reiki Jubo wrote:we heard a lot of blashblahblah about the weapons lab and the virtual trainer where corps could test weapons and practice w/o losing clones and equipment. why would Dust not have this at launch? this is a game where weapons have a real cost and the SP to use them does too! why not have a place where we can try the weapons out before learning stuff like the PLC is a piece of crap that doesnt do enough dmg?
just a horrible decision. iteration is folly if u dont have all the basic ground floor stuff in first.
both points of view on this one are interesting.
I personally think a training room or always available academy battles (where the stats don't count) are a decent idea that would help for testing stuff and for new players to build confidence.
I also agree that the sheer harshness of dust is one of it's strengths as a game and part of me is glad I had to learn by getting utterly destroyed time after time in battle. but then I'm obviously some kind of psycho masochist and maybe that's just me.
GÇ£All that I know most surely about morality and obligations I owe to football.GÇ¥
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Dusters Blog
Galactic News Network
766
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Posted - 2015.01.30 15:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Reiki Jubo wrote:we heard a lot of blashblahblah about the weapons lab and the virtual trainer where corps could test weapons and practice w/o losing clones and equipment. why would Dust not have this at launch? this is a game where weapons have a real cost and the SP to use them does too! why not have a place where we can try the weapons out before learning stuff like the PLC is a piece of crap that doesnt do enough dmg?
just a horrible decision. iteration is folly if u dont have all the basic ground floor stuff in first.
SoonGäó
The PS2 Whiteboard Project https://docs.google.com/document/d/14yCg0oUUyqJUTCSzIRx4z_dhS1aXHbubI0Hb3H6x5Is/edit
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RayRay James
Titans of Phoenix VP Gaming Alliance
943
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Posted - 2015.01.30 15:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:RayRay James wrote:Because CCP and my boss both have the same mentality.
The best way to teach someone how to swim is to throw them off a boat Eve Online is famous for its crazy learning curve, and even it has a dozen or so tutorial missions where you learn how to fire your weapons, which weapon systems are good against what, flying your ship, etc. We have the academy. That's it. As far as NPE goes, it's pretty much the worst way to educate a new player. We need* a kind of "virtual reality" training room where you can try out a new weapon. Maybe some simple AIs that strafe back and forth or jump around. The ability to select specific NPC "dummys" to fire at; for instance, an Amarr sentinel dummy you can shoot at to determine how quickly your new anti-armor fitting is going to work. Make sense? Just something to allow people to get a feel for the game before getting their b-holes rocked in pubs. *: Yes, I'm using the word "need". It's not a ******* nice-to-have. We NEED this. Dust needs to retain newberrys now more than ever.
I'll tell you when I started EVE, they threw my pod in a velator and launched me out of the station. None of this hand holding, namby-pamby, "teaching" they do now.
That being said, training rooms might be nice, but they still aren't going to let you know how that suit reacts in a real fight unless the AI is extremely intelligent.
Also, I played PS2 on the PC and never even knew they had a training room, so it must not be that necessary (or I'm just an idiot)
I don't know. I see both sides of the coin on this one. I think adapting the academy might be a better option to prepare new players vs an actual training room. If the HUD could tell you why you're scrambler isn't affecting shields while in a real fight, I think that might be more useful. More than just the readout we get now while in academy.
Maybe clippy should pop up and say "You look like you're having trouble killing that Sentinel. Can I help?" |
TEBOW BAGGINS
GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING
1593
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Posted - 2015.01.30 16:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
the target range in PS1 by no means prepared you really for anything.. all it did was give you a feel for shooting at a stationary target.. your only choice was to go get face stomped.. too much entitlements these days- "as a new player i deserve easy mode and my hand held or else i will leave game and tell all my little lunchroom buddies how hard it was and not worth it"..
AKA Zirzo Valcyn
AFKing since 2012
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Sequal's Back
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
213
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Posted - 2015.01.30 16:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Why do you say "PS2 WILL have.."? It already has one and it's pretty fun to fly arround in this area (PC master race.)
Rise? That's what they used to call me. Sequal Rise. That was my name.
Now I come Back to you, at the turn of the tide.
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
7229
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Posted - 2015.01.30 17:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
TEBOW BAGGINS wrote:the target range in PS1 by no means prepared you really for anything.. all it did was give you a feel for shooting at a stationary target.. your only choice was to go get face stomped.. too much entitlements these days- "as a new player i deserve easy mode and my hand held or else i will leave game and tell all my little lunchroom buddies how hard it was and not worth it".. There is such a thing as making a game accessible, while still allowing it to be difficult. Look at Eve Online. CCP has, in recent years, attempting to polish their new player tutorials by making them easier to understand, improving the UI, fixing bugs in the missions themselves, making the tutorial give more appropriate rewards.
None of those things make New Eden an easy place to live. It just makes a new player's first 2 - 3 days in the game less of a **** show.
And, by the way, you are entitled to being given a proper explanation of a game before playing it. Learning controls in a VR mission or shooting range is extremely basic stuff. Learning about damage profiles, racial tanking ethos, passive scans, bandwidth, etc. is more advanced and also deserves its own tutorial. There is no reason why we don't have those things right now except CCP Shanghai's dev team lacks personnel.
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
@Ripley_Riley
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RemingtonBeaver
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1778
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Posted - 2015.01.31 02:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Reiki Jubo wrote:we heard a lot of blashblahblah about the weapons lab and the virtual trainer where corps could test weapons and practice w/o losing clones and equipment. why would Dust not have this at launch? this is a game where weapons have a real cost and the SP to use them does too! why not have a place where we can try the weapons out before learning stuff like the PLC is a piece of crap that doesnt do enough dmg?
just a horrible decision. iteration is folly if u dont have all the basic ground floor stuff in first.
How about you spawn into a skirmish map. Hang out in the redline and practice hitting targets you mark yourself?
Everyone that knows how to lead a forge gun has done this. Everyone that knows how to arc a Plasma Cannon has done this. Everyone that knows how to compensate for recoil climb has done this. Do you honestly need a training sim?
Better idea, get out on the field and let the pressure of battle harden you into a ******* killing machine.
Go Here
and vote! 1 like is 1 vote!
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MrShooter01
Ustio Mercenary Squadron
1338
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Posted - 2015.01.31 03:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:I'll tell you when I started EVE, they threw my pod in a velator and launched me out of the station. None of this hand holding, namby-pamby, "teaching" they do now.
Back in MY day, we had to slow burn to the station in the snow uphill both ways the tutorial was "Poof, here you are in space next to a veldspar asteroid. Try to lock onto it and mine it, then take the ore back to the station and refine it." Complete these two tasks and congratulations, you are a space captain!
That was it.
That was the entire tutorial.
No further help beyond what you could figure out.
I shot the tutorial drone with my civilian gatling railgun and failed the tutorial by means of CONCORD obliteration (no safety system, you were one misclick away from committing assisted suicide every time you undocked). Welcome to EVE, MrShooter! **** you!
Dust's current "tutorial" is at least twice as advanced and comprehensive |
TEBOW BAGGINS
GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING
1596
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Posted - 2015.01.31 03:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
i really doubt a target range will save dust.. a horse with a broken leg can only be laughed at for so long..
....where is the PS2 Bomber in our darkest hour he has forgotten our forums.. he has abandoned us in our hour of need we cry out to the PS Bomber with hands toward the heavens but he does not return. He does not return. He only answers us in silence. The PS Bomber has abandoned us! The PS Bomber has abandoned us!!!
AKA Zirzo Valcyn
AFKing since 2012
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Roy Ventus
Axis of Chaos
1854
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Posted - 2015.01.31 03:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
Yes, yes...why don't we have one?
>:V
This would actually help people advance the meta by practicing tactics and strategies.
"There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all."
http://royventus.tumblr.com
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
5878
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Posted - 2015.01.31 04:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
RayRay James wrote:Because CCP and my boss both have the same mentality.
The best way to teach someone how to swim is to throw them off a boat
Into the middle of the Pacific Ocean? |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
18569
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Posted - 2015.01.31 04:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
MrShooter01 wrote:RayRay James wrote:I'll tell you when I started EVE, they threw my pod in a velator and launched me out of the station. None of this hand holding, namby-pamby, "teaching" they do now. Back in MY day, we had to slow burn to the station in the snow uphill both ways the tutorial was "Poof, here you are in space next to a veldspar asteroid. Try to lock onto it and mine it, then take the ore back to the station and refine it." Complete these two tasks and congratulations, you are a space captain! That was it. That was the entire tutorial.No further help beyond what you could figure out. I shot the tutorial drone with my civilian gatling railgun and failed the tutorial by means of CONCORD obliteration (no safety system, you were one misclick away from committing assisted suicide every time you undocked). Welcome to EVE, MrShooter! **** you! Dust's current "tutorial" is at least twice as advanced and comprehensive
Back in my day;
there wasn't one.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
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LT SHANKS
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
4910
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Posted - 2015.01.31 04:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
Hey.... did OP really insult the PLC?
Eat mah nutz! |
MrShooter01
Ustio Mercenary Squadron
1338
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Posted - 2015.01.31 05:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Back in my day;
there wasn't one.
Preeeety sure they had the beginnings of an actual tutorial in 2006 |
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