Foundation Seldon
Heaven's Lost Property
817
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Posted - 2015.01.27 20:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
I think I'm with the majority with this opinion when I say that LLAVs should in no way NEED to rely on a second party in order to fulfill its logistics role. In the same way that a Logi doesn't need someone to hold the repair tool for them or activate their scanner I believe that LLAVs should have an option to apply their own driver controlled logistics to the field. We shouldn't kid ourselves though, there ARE roles in this game that rely on having more than one person operate a vehicle in order to maintain full effectiveness. Most obviously this includes the original Dropship which requires competent gunners in order for a pilot to achieve the majority of his warpoints. We also shouldn't be satisfied with the way the original logistics function on the old LLAVs worked, they were an unnecessarily clumsy and unintuitive solution to fulfilling our role. But I think the core idea of having logistics turrets is a good for one if for nothing more than spicing up team based vehicular combat.
I think a middleground exists that addresses both sides of the equation. You can have logistics turrets AND driver controlled logistics with a simple tweak to the basic LLAV/LDS formula.
Give them front facing turrets.
Pros -
-If modeled like a repair tool one could map the use of the logistics module like one would use a turret on an Assault Dropship. Just press a button. Simple and easy to understand.
-With it being a turret one could set the thing up to swap to any number of alternate logistics turrets with increased healing power or additional logistics functions (more on this later)
Cons -
-You lose the ability to apply multiple types of logistics without having multiple people manning the vehicle. The driver controls one, and a hypothetical gunner(s) controls the other.
Potential Problems & Solutions :
-Won't this cause crossover with the ADS or make the LLAV too strong on the battlefield?
Not necessarily. Many forget this but the old LLAV sacrificed 50% of its turret power as a price for using a much more resilient vehicle and the logistics modules. I personally thought 50% was a bit much but one could easily see a situation where you could discourage the use of these vehicles as attack platforms with such a mechanic.
-If it's a turret why couldn't I just stick a logistics turret on my ADS?
You can! And that's a good thing! We should be encouraging fitting diversity on vehicles as its something thats been sorely missed and the addition of actual defined roles for other vehicles goes a long way in creating that. Presumably one would make the role bonus for the LDS and the LLAV related to the use of these logistics modules to incentive their use on that platform over any other.
-Won't infantry get in the way of my healing beam?
Potentially. You could solve this by either making it so that they can only target vehicles or otherwise deal with the chance that this is going to be something that happens sometimes. Vehicles are big targets in any case so as long as you're not too far from your mark then it shouldn't be toooo difficult to find a lock on someone.
Alternate Logistics Turret Functionality :
Increased Attack Power on Target (Red Lightning effect)
%Resistance Bonus on Target (White Lightning Effect)
-Your Ideas-
I think we need to get away from the idea that Logistics Vehicles should be solely healing based. With the new vehicle meta the reality is that vehicles don't stay damaged for very long and by extension the need for a Logistics vehicle on the field has been diminished. With these alternative logistics functions you could open up new ways to apply logistics to the field for infantry and vehicles alike.
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Foundation Seldon
Heaven's Lost Property
817
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Posted - 2015.01.27 22:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Let's see:
- You say that some things ingame can't do all of its functions alone. That is false. Your example, DS's is made as a transport vehicle; it's purpose is not to slay everything it sees. The small turrets are for protection, most noteably infantry when you're dropping people off, not for just shooting people. You can do that, but that's not optimally using the vehicle. Yes, you do need gunners to get a solid amount of WP's, but that's due to DS's not being balanced to give it enough WP's.
- Remote reps on vehicles were fine, I used them all the time. The ones that sucked were infantry reps, and after speaking to people, I've concluded that a great solution would be to have a bubble rep, or some sort of fire and forget auto lock.
- I laugh when you suggest that LDS's as a repping platform, when that is just silly. Those videos that had them? Yea, don't look at that as a good idea. Remember, this is coming from CCP. Good fits and especially good tactics does not come out of them. Also, That breaks the concept of the Logistics triangle, which basically means if all logistics vehicles can do all logistic functions equally, the one that preforms all the best will be used, and for the most part will be only used. That is not balanced.
- Having a ADS as a repping platform makes even less sense as a DS or LDS being a repping platform.
Hey, thanks for the feedback!
1. Maybe. As you said though in their current form the mechanics in place do not support dedicated transport vehicles on the field so in their current state they're a bit role-less. I fondly remember the days in which having a good Dropship/gunner combination out on the field was the equivalent of calling down the hammer of thor on the enemy team though. Small turrets are there for kills, afterburners are there for protection. No one sticks around when the Forge starts charging.
2. Remote reps on vehicles were NOT fine. Literally the definition of a clunky mechanic channeling its EVE-isms vs. finding a way to make it work in a FPS environment. The delay needed for a target to lock was unncessary, the means of locking on to a target was unwieldy in a moving vehicle, and the moment you lost your lock you had to shut down the module, wait for the thing to cooldown, and then re-lock whenever they became available again. They were manageable under very specific conditions and with a lot of communication but were far from an intuitive or elegant solution.
3. Im not looking at any videos to form my ideas. I use my experience as an ADS pilot that can easily hover above enemy vehicles in order to take them out, there's no reason I couldn't also use this system in order to instatarget a friendly vehicle using the same mechanics. If given enough range they could be fine logistics platforms.
4. It's not about what makes the most amount of sense in any situation, its about giving players the OPTION to play the game in the way they see fit. If a repair/tool esque type turret was added to the game then the ADS could be a fast flying combined logistics and attack platform. It's a new remix to an old song.
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