DUST Search - LAVs - please read the WHOLE thing, it's long

Derpty Derp wrote:

I disagree, because LAV's can be used quite effectively if you plan ahead.

You don't have to stop (unless you're switching to the gunners seat or on rough terrain) just slowing down to a steady crawl will leave the turret accurate enough to take a kill.

Even when stopping, the thing moves so damn fast you can escape just about anything (other than a crap ton of av ambushing you when you get them really angry.)

Small blasters are absolutely bad ass, you can setup a gunner suit (sentinel with a very cheap weapon and lots of hp) park up next to a HMG and have time to watch the tear roll down his cheek as he realises he's not invincible.

Small rails have so much range, you shouldn't be shot by anything other than a forge or sniper when using one.

Missiles... Well they're for dropships, because your gunner is aiming down with it, they will likely blow up your own jeep.

LAV's are used to blow up other LAV's all the time. Against dropships you can use the missiles to knock them off balance so they struggling to hit you, while you move between reloads. Taking on tanks is suicide, unless the tanker is stupid... Like really stupid, or you scare them into thinking you've got explosives on the front and they run away.

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Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 156	Posted - 2015.01.27 03:21:00 - [1] - Quote Personally, they have no purpose other than a quick way to reach an objective or to run people over. LAVs are Light Assault Vehicles. I don't like the fact that it's not really "effective" at that. What do I mean? Well, to begin with, if the vehicle is not moving, it is likely to be taken out by an HAV, a dropsuit placing REs on it, or being swarmed/forged. The only way to actually kill people is for the vehicle to be still, giving the gunner a good chance to land all te bullets on a target. The only other way I see someone killing someone while moving is with missles, but even still it's somewhat hard. I propose a small to medium increase in LAV hp to soak up more damage while actually "assaulting" enemies. 2 forge shots are enough to wipe out a lav. 3 swarms, 3 plasma cannon. Next, I read that the fragmented small missles will be reintroduced. That will help the missles, but the other 2 turrets need work. Now, I will mention that I liked back then when the rail guns were av, blaster was ai, and missles were hybrid. I'd like to say that I really wish that could return as this game is not the same anymore when it comes to vehicles. With that, I'd like small turrets to function the same, obviously at a redused level. I propose the small rail guns to have an increase to damage, near 500 +/- and redused RoF. That would help it be effective at av and crappy at ai. Range increase will help as well Small blasters need increased damage, same range, and redused heat build up. A smal reduction to desperation will help in ai while keeping it weak at av. Missles should be hybrid, mid range, strong direct damage for av, while having mid-high splash damage for ai. This will improve Lav experience and effectiveness on the battle field. 2 LAVs could circle a HAV and destroy it with small rail turrets. A lav could wipe out heavies guarding an objective without being wiped out quickly. A lav with small missles would be perfect at taking out enemy LAVs, helping out to wipe out a tank, or support a friendly blaster lav while suppressing enemies. As so, large turrets should be affected in the same way to provide a better HAV experience. 48th Special Operations Force. "As a team or alone, I dominate the battlefield."
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 158	Posted - 2015.01.27 03:31:00 - [2] - Quote As for large turrets, make them as they were before again. A blaster should be ai, rail av, and missles both. Increase damage/ reduse RoF on rail Increase damage/ reduse dispiration on blaster Reduse damage/ increase splash for missles 48th Special Operations Force. "As a team or alone, I dominate the battlefield."
Grimmiers 769	Posted - 2015.01.27 10:25:00 - [3] - Quote I agree with all of it. Vehicle combat won't be complete until lavs get a proper update. First thing that needs to be ironed out is the dispersion while moving, which was a glitch since the game was released. You can have an excellent connection and still have shots fire way off course which affects small blasters the same way it does missiles/rails. Then there's the lack of animations/delay making it used as a hit and run tactic. I would be happy about the hav changes if the other vehicles got the same treatment where std to proto is only an increase in fitting cost room with specialist types. There's no reward for having a gunner even though it requires 2 players to work and you have to be standing completely still for any accuracy.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6790	Posted - 2015.01.27 10:28:00 - [4] - Quote Grimmiers wrote: I agree with all of it. Vehicle combat won't be complete until lavs get a proper update. First thing that needs to be ironed out is the dispersion while moving, which was a glitch since the game was released. You can have an excellent connection and still have shots fire way off course which affects small blasters the same way it does missiles/rails. Then there's the lack of animations/delay making it used as a hit and run tactic. I would be happy about the hav changes if the other vehicles got the same treatment where std to proto is only an increase in fitting cost room with specialist types. There's no reward for having a gunner even though it requires 2 players to work and you have to be standing completely still for any accuracy. One thing at a time. HAVs getting rebalanced will likely bugger up dropships as well. They're both going to need a look. Believe it or not the Infantry AV ramifications are not the only thing I'm concerned with by even a slight margin AV
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 3853	Posted - 2015.01.27 11:33:00 - [5] - Quote Armor LAV already needs 3 shots of almost everything to be destroyed. Pronounced Scam - man - hoga Minmatar omni-merc
tritan abbattere DBAG CORE 16	Posted - 2015.01.27 13:26:00 - [6] - Quote I kinda Dislike the idea of putting the weapons in classes of AV or antipersonnel. I think it should be how you engage with the weapons. for example rail guns should be able to be used to kill infantry but only at long range pegging. Blaster on other hand should be able to kill a HAV but needs to get close and under his gun. The weapon on a LAV should only effect the style of engagement. The modules should effect what it is designed to do. weather its multipurpose or AV or anti-personnel. That said they should add Heat syncs modules to help cool the guns and add tracking modules to make turret turning faster. I am the all mighty Tritan. Fear me for I am a MassHole
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 673	Posted - 2015.01.27 17:04:00 - [7] - Quote I disagree, because LAV's can be used quite effectively if you plan ahead. You don't have to stop (unless you're switching to the gunners seat or on rough terrain) just slowing down to a steady crawl will leave the turret accurate enough to take a kill. Even when stopping, the thing moves so damn fast you can escape just about anything (other than a crap ton of av ambushing you when you get them really angry.) Small blasters are absolutely bad ass, you can setup a gunner suit (sentinel with a very cheap weapon and lots of hp) park up next to a HMG and have time to watch the tear roll down his cheek as he realises he's not invincible. Small rails have so much range, you shouldn't be shot by anything other than a forge or sniper when using one. Missiles... Well they're for dropships, because your gunner is aiming down with it, they will likely blow up your own jeep. LAV's are used to blow up other LAV's all the time. Against dropships you can use the missiles to knock them off balance so they struggling to hit you, while you move between reloads. Taking on tanks is suicide, unless the tanker is stupid... Like really stupid, or you scare them into thinking you've got explosives on the front and they run away.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 928	Posted - 2015.01.27 18:16:00 - [8] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Against dropships Small damage amped rails are surprisingly powerful against dropships. Even HAVs get a scare out of that, but you won't be able to tank much. For comparison: Cpx small railgun + cpx damage mod: 905 DPS Std large railgun: 1035 DPS
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 160	Posted - 2015.01.27 18:20:00 - [9] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: I disagree, because LAV's can be used quite effectively if you plan ahead. You don't have to stop (unless you're switching to the gunners seat or on rough terrain) just slowing down to a steady crawl will leave the turret accurate enough to take a kill. Even when stopping, the thing moves so damn fast you can escape just about anything (other than a crap ton of av ambushing you when you get them really angry.) Small blasters are absolutely bad ass, you can setup a gunner suit (sentinel with a very cheap weapon and lots of hp) park up next to a HMG and have time to watch the tear roll down his cheek as he realises he's not invincible. Small rails have so much range, you shouldn't be shot by anything other than a forge or sniper when using one. Missiles... Well they're for dropships, because your gunner is aiming down with it, they will likely blow up your own jeep. LAV's are used to blow up other LAV's all the time. Against dropships you can use the missiles to knock them off balance so they struggling to hit you, while you move between reloads. Taking on tanks is suicide, unless the tanker is stupid... Like really stupid, or you scare them into thinking you've got explosives on the front and they run away. I wouldn't type this if they were like that at least most of the time. 48th Special Operations Force. "As a team or alone, I dominate the battlefield."
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4586	Posted - 2015.01.27 18:25:00 - [10] - Quote Well, an increase to HP...yes, but probably not in the way you're thinking. Nerf the base HP in the ground, give it more slots, and make the modules worth fitting so the overall HP of a fitted LAV is higher, but cheap unfitted LAVs are significantly weaker. Like HAVs, LAVs have too much HP on the hull and not enough in the slots. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net

Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 674	Posted - 2015.01.27 19:23:00 - [11] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: I wouldn't type this if they were like that at least most of the time. They're like this all the time... It's all down to how you use them. Stefan Stahl wrote: Derpty Derp wrote: Against dropships Small damage amped rails are surprisingly powerful against dropships. Even HAVs get a scare out of that, but you won't be able to tank much. For comparison: Cpx small railgun + cpx damage mod: 905 DPS Std large railgun: 1035 DPS I wasn't trying to write-off the small rails. But if you shoot a dropship with those, their aim is unaffected and well... max 4 shots with good aim and your dropsuit gives way. But with missiles, the likelihood of being hit (especially when you get to low hp and swap to the drivers seat) is greatly reduced. Going by the 'the best offence is a good defence' because you can't do anything when you're dead.
taxi bastard Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 362	Posted - 2015.01.27 22:07:00 - [12] - Quote Armour LAV's are already 3 shot kills with the best AV before putting a single thing on them, you can also fit a large plate on a methena if you have some skill with a rail gun. i would actually argue for a lowering of EHP
taxi bastard Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 362	Posted - 2015.01.27 22:13:00 - [13] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Well, an increase to HP...yes, but probably not in the way you're thinking. Nerf the base HP in the ground, give it more slots, and make the modules worth fitting so the overall HP of a fitted LAV is higher, but cheap unfitted LAVs are significantly weaker. Like HAVs, LAVs have too much HP on the hull and not enough in the slots. i like the idea - make all LAV's pretty much 1 shot for any AV - then force people to spend isk to make them survivable. considering how many free LAV's there are this is a great idea for an isk sink and to bring back value to them.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 675	Posted - 2015.01.27 22:17:00 - [14] - Quote taxi bastard wrote: Armour LAV's are already 3 shot kills with the best AV before putting a single thing on them, you can also fit a large plate on a methena if you have some skill with a rail gun. i would actually argue for a lowering of EHP Pretty sure you can 1 shot LAV's with several weapons... Not to mention proto av grenades do a good number on them. If you lower the hp to the point that shooting the LAV is a better option than shooting the guys sitting in it, there's something wrong.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4590	Posted - 2015.01.27 22:21:00 - [15] - Quote taxi bastard wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Well, an increase to HP...yes, but probably not in the way you're thinking. Nerf the base HP in the ground, give it more slots, and make the modules worth fitting so the overall HP of a fitted LAV is higher, but cheap unfitted LAVs are significantly weaker. Like HAVs, LAVs have too much HP on the hull and not enough in the slots. i like the idea - make all LAV's pretty much 1 shot for any AV - then force people to spend isk to make them survivable. considering how many free LAV's there are this is a great idea for an isk sink and to bring back value to them. Pretty much. I have no issue with cheap/free transport. I have an issue that they take more than 1-2 AV grenades to pop when they're unfitted, throwaway LAVs. If they're fit however, they should take punishment equal to how good the fitting is. Back in the day, a single packed AV grenade would pop most unfit LAVs. I miss those days =( "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 160	Posted - 2015.01.27 23:08:00 - [16] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Well, an increase to HP...yes, but probably not in the way you're thinking. Nerf the base HP in the ground, give it more slots, and make the modules worth fitting so the overall HP of a fitted LAV is higher, but cheap unfitted LAVs are significantly weaker. Like HAVs, LAVs have too much HP on the hull and not enough in the slots. Good idea. Keep the current hp or reduse it slightly, and add more modules. That would be like a heavy to a scout. Heavies have high hp and few slots, scouts have low go and lots of slots. That would be a lav(scout) to hav(heavy). Then just fox the turrets. Blaster would be your hmg/assault rifles for scout/lav and HAV/heavy- ai Rail would be your forge/plasma- av Missle would be your mass driver (after the breach is made to av) or remote explosives- hybrid. 48th Special Operations Force. "As a team or alone, I dominate the battlefield."
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4591	Posted - 2015.01.27 23:13:00 - [17] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Well, an increase to HP...yes, but probably not in the way you're thinking. Nerf the base HP in the ground, give it more slots, and make the modules worth fitting so the overall HP of a fitted LAV is higher, but cheap unfitted LAVs are significantly weaker. Like HAVs, LAVs have too much HP on the hull and not enough in the slots. Good idea. Keep the current hp or reduse it slightly, and add more modules. That would be like a heavy to a scout. Heavies have high hp and few slots, scouts have low go and lots of slots. That would be a lav(scout) to hav(heavy). Then just fox the turrets. Blaster would be your hmg/assault rifles for scout/lav and HAV/heavy- ai Rail would be your forge/plasma- av Missle would be your mass driver (after the breach is made to av) or remote explosives- hybrid. I'd actually reduce base HP by a significant amount and make light defensive modules better and have more of them so they more than compensate for the sharp drop in base HP. "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 160	Posted - 2015.01.28 02:16:00 - [18] - Quote I also agree that LAVs should follow the same way as the adv and proto HAVs, having more pg/cpu per level. Reduse the hp of them, add more slots to set the standard, then adjust them per level Ex: Gal lav- current:1high/2low, new: 2 high, 4 low Cal lav- current:2high/1low, new: 4 high, 2 low 48th Special Operations Force. "As a team or alone, I dominate the battlefield."
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 160	Posted - 2015.01.28 11:36:00 - [19] - Quote ^ 48th Special Operations Force. "As a team or alone, I dominate the battlefield."
Sinboto Simmons Dead Man's Game RUST415 7421	Posted - 2015.01.28 13:00:00 - [20] - Quote Any thoughts for the LLV and an improved SLAV Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 2 Born of the Brutor tribe

Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 161	Posted - 2015.01.28 16:01:00 - [21] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Any thoughts for the LLV and an improved SLAV I'd say don't make them, just add new modules to use. Now you can choose (For LAVs) to fill you slots with logi stuff(rep turret and bla bla bla) or tank it and go av or ai (rail/blaster) or both missles. 48th Special Operations Force. "As a team or alone, I dominate the battlefield."
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4598	Posted - 2015.01.28 16:07:00 - [22] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: I also agree that LAVs should follow the same way as the adv and proto HAVs, having more pg/cpu per level. Reduse the hp of them, add more slots to set the standard, then adjust them per level Ex: Gal lav- current:1high/2low, new: 2 high, 4 low Cal lav- current:2high/1low, new: 4 high, 2 low 4/2 huh....hmmmmmmmmm part of me says that's too many slots, but I could see it working. Nomal LAVs Amarr 2/4 Caldari 4/2 Gallente 2/4 Minmatar 3/3 Specialist LAVs Amarr 1/3 Caldari 3/1 Gallente 1/3 Minmatar 2/2 maybe? "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Foundation Seldon Heaven's Lost Property 817	Posted - 2015.01.28 16:08:00 - [23] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Any thoughts for the LLV and an improved SLAV I'd say don't make them, just add new modules to use. Now you can choose (For LAVs) to fill you slots with logi stuff(rep turret and bla bla bla) or tank it and go av or ai (rail/blaster) or both missles. There's 3 slots. Unless your basic frame is a Methana then sacrificing tank for anything is going to get your **** wrecked.
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 161	Posted - 2015.01.28 19:10:00 - [24] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: I also agree that LAVs should follow the same way as the adv and proto HAVs, having more pg/cpu per level. Reduse the hp of them, add more slots to set the standard, then adjust them per level Ex: Gal lav- current:1high/2low, new: 2 high, 4 low Cal lav- current:2high/1low, new: 4 high, 2 low 4/2 huh....hmmmmmmmmm part of me says that's too many slots, but I could see it working. Nomal LAVs Amarr 2/4 Caldari 4/2 Gallente 2/4 Minmatar 3/3 Specialist LAVs Amarr 1/3 Caldari 3/1 Gallente 1/3 Minmatar 2/2 maybe? It's alot of slots but with redused lav hp. So either you tank and go assault or go logi and add other stuff 48th Special Operations Force. "As a team or alone, I dominate the battlefield."
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 161	Posted - 2015.01.28 19:13:00 - [25] - Quote At least that would be eaiser with the only difference between other LAVs would be pg/cpu 48th Special Operations Force. "As a team or alone, I dominate the battlefield."
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4604	Posted - 2015.01.28 19:22:00 - [26] - Quote Yeah that's pretty solid. I've always been a fan of "All tiers get the same number of slots but they vary by PG/CPU" There is a lot of stuff moving with the HAVs right now, but once that's done I plan to focus my efforts on bringing back LAVs proper and reintroducing LLAVs at the very least "That little s**t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati, Biomassed Episode 032 Dust514 // Podcast www.biomassed.net
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 163	Posted - 2015.01.29 00:03:00 - [27] - Quote Any module ideas? 48th Special Operations Force. "As a team or alone, I dominate the battlefield."
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 163	Posted - 2015.01.29 12:00:00 - [28] - Quote So, anytime they will be looked at? I'd like to see them differently in warlords 1,0. 48th Special Operations Force. "As a team or alone, I dominate the battlefield."


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