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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2003
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Posted - 2015.01.26 09:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
Is it possible that we'll also see some semblance of racial parity from this too?
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2003
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Posted - 2015.01.26 09:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:Is it possible that we'll also see some semblance of racial parity from this too? If no one else does I'm already theorycrafting large turrets for racial parity. Once we have the hulls finalized and the turrets we have redone all I have to do is math.
I can maybe spitball some ideas for how different turrets might function, potentially with video examples if that would help your theorycrafting any.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2003
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Posted - 2015.01.26 09:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
For reference can we get a maximum heat capacity for large rails / blasters?
First impression: Holy crap proposed rails do a lot of damage, I think they might drastically edge out other weapons based on that alone (3 railgun rounds >>> full missile volley). Is it possible to slow missile RoF and adjust damage so they're less of an instant-gank deathweapon and more of a 'bring these out when you want to ruin installations or a target that's sitting still'.
I don't want rails to be useless, but with the proposed stats on them they still have the lethal combination of damage and range that promotes red-line tank sniping.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2003
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Posted - 2015.01.26 09:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
100 for maximum heat is a good number, makes total sense. Made an edit to previous post about lengthening missile 'volley' duration from 1.5s (10 shots @ .15s / shot) to 2.4 seconds (10 shots @ .24s / shot). Less punishing to miss individual shots and less instant-deathy.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2003
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Posted - 2015.01.26 09:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:For reference can we get a maximum heat capacity for large rails / blasters?
First impression: Holy crap proposed rails do a lot of damage, I think they might drastically edge out other weapons based on that alone (3 railgun rounds >>> full missile volley). Is it possible to slow missile RoF and adjust damage so they're less of an instant-gank deathweapon and more of a 'bring these out when you want to ruin installations or a target that's sitting still'. I'm not great with how certain numbers would affect balance, but jumping missiles from 1.5 seconds (proposed) for full volley to 2.4 maybe?
I don't want rails to be useless, but with the proposed stats on them they still have the lethal combination of damage and range that promotes red-line tank sniping. I believe a healthy increase to Railgun fitting, will make it more of a glasscannon. But you cant just compare the 3 shots, the applied dps is much reduced, due to heat f.ex. Take a special look at the columns marked as KPI, they coincide with the "best to worst" design philosophy below.
My experience in current tank vs tank is that rail tanks frequently have enough EHP that they can survive blaster or missile fire long enough even with their slow RoF that they can easily win vs other tanks. Especially when you factor in things like damage mods.
Fitting cost increases to rail might be appropriate, but I still forsee a lot S.H.A.V's with a large rail making other vehicles lives miserable. Peakaboo gameplay is something I witness frequently with current particle cannon tanks.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2005
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Posted - 2015.01.26 12:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
^one adv damage mod and catching someone between cycles or shooting at any armor tank.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2006
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Posted - 2015.01.26 13:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:would rather not post these for all the world to see, but here are some PC tank fights from last week. Im running test fits in both videos to judge their competitiveness. http://youtu.be/kXD5TCWfj64?t=8mhttp://youtu.be/tP1S22B9-Ts?t=7m3syou guys tell me where the maddy's are. tell me where the missiles are. i saw dual brick tanked gunnlogis, dual hardener gunnlogis and dual damage mod gunnlogis. thats it That is part of the problem that people are attempting to address, the 'meta' fit where x thing is clearly superior to others. 2x Hardener gunnlogi can pull 10kehp and reduces missile damage to pathetic values.
Missiles vs shields is not the 'meta' so it won't be used, however when an armor tank shows up, missiles eat it alive. Missiles *can* also kill one of those dual hardener tanks so long as they catch it when hardeners are down.
I would say it's one of the fundamental problems of the current HAV design - armor is underpowered and missiles are hilariously OP vs armor, but they suck vs shields.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2006
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Posted - 2015.01.26 13:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:they where designed to be a hard counter to armor, and i always assumed that laser turrets would be OP vs shields whenever they come out Hard counters are terrible design. Soft counters are much nicer.
Essentially it goes 'ha stupid idiot, you brought out something that wasn't the meta, hope you like dying!'. It turns it into a contest of stats rather than a contest of skill.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2013
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Posted - 2015.01.26 22:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
So we LBX-10 the blaster turret? Changing it from a high RoF 'precision' weapon into vehicular shotgun turret? I can get behind this.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2014
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Posted - 2015.01.27 07:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
I think the currently 'proposed' blaster will end up being something that harvests maximum tears from infantry if it functions identically to the variant we have in game.
By changing to to be a shotgun style turret you can make it so its still 'technically' able to shoot infantry, but it isn't ultra-hyper lethal to them as only a few pellets would hit, as opposed to shooting at vehicles where all pellets are likely to hit.
If we were to give it a RPM of 100 (one round every .6s) that's only marginally faster than current shotguns (.7s repeat) and it would allow for 1200 damage (still hitting 2000dps) @ 8 pellets its 150/pellet or @ 10 it's 120/pellet. I'd suggest having spread that's roughly installation sized @ 130m and half that @ 65m.
This should make it still be threatening to infantry but prevent the fun ruining blaster tanks of 1.7 from making a return and it keeps the large turret far more oriented towards av than ai.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2015
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Posted - 2015.01.27 15:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:I think the currently 'proposed' blaster will end up being something that harvests maximum tears from infantry if it functions identically to the variant we have in game.
By changing to to be a shotgun style turret you can make it so its still 'technically' able to shoot infantry, but it isn't ultra-hyper lethal to them as only a few pellets would hit, as opposed to shooting at vehicles where all pellets are likely to hit.
If we were to give it a RPM of 100 (one round every .6s) that's only marginally faster than current shotguns (.7s repeat) and it would allow for 1200 damage (still hitting 2000dps) @ 8 pellets its 150/pellet or @ 10 it's 120/pellet. I'd suggest having spread that's roughly installation sized @ 130m and half that @ 65m.
This should make it still be threatening to infantry but prevent the fun ruining blaster tanks of 1.7 from making a return and it keeps the large turret far more oriented towards av than ai. I'd shorten up those ranges by a lot. Blasters shouldn't be sitting THAT far back.
I don't think the ranges are super crazy but I could be wrong.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2015
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Posted - 2015.01.27 17:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Also, if you run turrets at 2000 DPS and then use a module to allow you to consistently hit infantry I fail to see how this will not cause issues. It's called being rewarded with +50 for a kill because of proper aim. Only you would think that is a good idea. It works for infantry, why shouldn't it work for us? This is not a "them vs us" situation, anyone who thinks it is on either side shouldn't be involved here.
If you're not willing to behave or discuss things like a rational adult to create a healthy gameplay experience for all involved you need to gtfo because your opinions are neither wanted nor are they constructive.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2018
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Posted - 2015.01.27 19:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote: There is no "rational discussion" with people that insist on making vehicles useless when they don't use them.
I've made two spreadsheets already. That's not constructive?
Constant shitposting is never constructive, rattati told you that much in the other thread. Maybe he needed to use smaller words so you could understand.
You are the one who is failing to uphold the basic rules of rational discussion here. You are also still treating it as an 'us vs them' issue, which really when it comes from you means "I am the only person who should ever get to provide any feedback on this topic. No one else should have a say". I'm pretty sure rattati also includes in his comments that he doesn't give a **** about any of your feedback as you're a biased little bigot that has repeatedly demonstrated that you cannot discuss things in good faith - non-verbatim of course.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2018
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Posted - 2015.01.27 20:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:The breach forge takes 5 seconds to fire. Quit being disingenuous. . 1. Does it do 400damage every second for 5seconds? Yes or no? Try again, Spkr. No one here is fooled by this slapdash crap, and I'm not stupid enough to get caught by such a FLAGRANT trap question I could expect from a third grader. You're being petulant at this point and it's really getting sad. 1. Does it do 400damage every second for 5seconds? Yes or no?
Alpha strike divided by charge time equals damage per second.
Or rate of fire multiplied by damage per shot equals damage per shot.
Doing 10000 damage every 10 seconds is the same damage per second as doing 1000 damage every second or any number of other things.
You have resorted to insane troll logic here to try and distract from the fact that you are wrong.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2079
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Posted - 2015.02.05 16:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:what is your feeling on blaster ROF, not DPS, just feeling.
do you generally like the
dum dum dum dum dum (current)
or you prefer
dum...dum...dum...dum more like an APC turret from other fpss
or dum.....dum......dum like a tank from other fpss
;) vote now
I still don't want them to be anywhere close to a rail, there is a sweet spot there, i think
also missiles, i feel the rof is way too high right now
I want a shotgun blaster turret. 8 pellets at 150dmg/pellet and .6s refire (2000dps) or 10pellets at 120dmg/pellet and .6s refire (2000dps). Much less murder vs infantry (though still threatening because of incidental damage).
I'll agree that missile RoF is too high right now - you can fire so fast that kick/dispersion throws your missiles off target, I almost want to go back to the old style large missile turrets that fired in bursts (just with appropriately upscaled missile damage). I do not like extremely short TTK on vehicles.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2079
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Posted - 2015.02.05 17:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
Go away.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2086
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Posted - 2015.02.05 18:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:If you don't like what I have to say, then just block me on here, problem solved. You're essentially covering your ears and saying "la la la I can't hear you."
You are nitpicking at posts from page two while the discussion has moved to page eighteen. This is no longer relevant or meaningful discussion, I will not engage in non-discussions with you thus all I have to say is go away. I have provided adequate support for my position, I see tanks play peekaboo from the redline with proto rail turrets on a daily basis as does practically everyone else who actually plays this game, stomping your feet and denying a fact doesn't make it not a fact.
Let me repeat: I will not engage in non-discussion with you, I do not engage with people who deny things that are facts, I will not speak with you as long as you continue to be immature and non-constructive. Here's a handy guide for you
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
2088
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Posted - 2015.02.05 19:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:what is your feeling on blaster ROF, not DPS, just feeling.
do you generally like the
dum dum dum dum dum (current)
or you prefer
dum...dum...dum...dum more like an APC turret from other fpss
or dum.....dum......dum like a tank from other fpss
;) vote now
I still don't want them to be anywhere close to a rail, there is a sweet spot there, i think
also missiles, i feel the rof is way too high right now My honest opinion on the large blaster: just make it more geared towards fighting infantry compared to the other large turrets. You might think that lowering its ROF will make it weaker against infantry, but I feel that that won't give you the desired effect. Lowering its ROF means increasing its damage. Now you get a large blaster that can one-shot most infantry while still maintaining a decent ROF (actually, the perfect balance between ROF and direct damage: not too much direct damage like the large railgun where you're dealing too much damage and are losing ROF, but just enough direct damage to one-shot most infantry and boasting a higher ROF). You will forever see balance issues with the current design of the large blaster. Instead, just give it slightly lower DPS than the rest of the large turrets and remove its dispersion. Now it's a precision weapon which infantry should fear in the hands of a skilled pilot, but its lower DPS will put it at a natural disadvantage against other HAVs with a large missile or railgun. If you really want a Gallente AV large turret, then all I can say is, you'll have to come up with a new design. Others have already talked about this and have been giving good feedback on. Probably the best one I like is a plasma cannon-like large turret. Low ROF like a railgun, but higher direct damage due to it having a limited effective range and a slower projectile travel time. There's your Gallente AV large turret. Keep the current large blaster as geared more towards anti-infantry.
Seconding. Rail turret is bad vs infantry because it overkills things in a single shot yet doesn't have a good RoF to shoot at infantry with. A slower but higher damage blaster will not suffer from overkilling it will instead to just the right amount of damage to kill in 2 or 3 rounds which will arguably make it EVEN BETTER vs infantry. The blaster turret needs a redesign.
I would also suggest doubling the large rail RoF & magazine size but halving the damage per shot, so it's less of an "OH **** I'M ABOUT TO DIE" on the first shot and "OH **** IM DEAD" on the second shot, it will do the same damage over time, but less instant murdergank fuckyou damage upfront.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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