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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
850
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Posted - 2015.01.24 16:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I am starting to see the ever increase petition to make the scrambler rifle have a 15/15 profile because Laser weapons are too good at taking out shields even tho that's what it is meant to do!
Now, part of this problem I think comes from thanks to the over abundance of Anti-Armor weapons. Face it shield users. There are more Anti-Armor weapons in the game AND the most used weapons in matches are Anti-Armor so anyone with a shield suit is not used to almost any weakness. If you take that into the shield suit users whining, it means that they are so used to get git with weapons that do minimal damage to their shields, that when a specialty weapon designed yo destroy shields comes inyo play, they cry and whine how said weapon is OP.
Now for damage profiles. There are currently 5 damage profiles. Plasma +10/-10
Rail -10/+10
Projectile -15/+15
Laser +20/-20
Explosive -20/+20
Now look at that. 3 damage profiles designed to take out armor. Yet do you see any armor suit user complaining about these? Do you seeany armor suit user complaining how the Projectile and Explosive chew right threw armor like it was nothing? No. Even if RR, HMGs and CRs are the most used weapons in the battlefield, you almosy never see an armor suit user whining about.
But now, if a Laser weapons comes into play, a shield suit user will scream for a nerf to it's profile. Again, this most likely comes do to the over abundance of Anti-Armor weapons and them being so used to be getting hit with those that when an Anti-Shield weapon comes out, they think its OP.
Can the weapon use some changes? Yeah. Does the damage profile need some chanages? No.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
851
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Posted - 2015.01.24 16:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:I would change profile to the scrambler just for parity reason, divide laser in to 2 category, beam and pulse. Beam should keep current profile, pulse should be +15/-15.
But like i've said i would like this just for parity reasons. I could cope with this.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
852
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Posted - 2015.01.24 17:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
DRT99 wrote:1. SCR out DPSes those anti armor weapons 2. Shields tend to have embarrassingly low hp, so anti armor weapons usually kill them as fast or faster than armor suits 3. If shields were more popular, so would SCRs 4. Explosives do +20/-20, but how much DPS does that mass driver do? how willing are you to use grenades instead of shooting that heavy?
The problem is an already high damage weapon gets a massive innate damage bonus to low HP suits. I dont know wwhy youre so against this change, it would actually end up helping the SCR in the current armor meta.
also, you can call shield users whiny when theres an anti-armor equivalent of flux grenades. Finally, armor users dont whine about CR because they survuve longer vs a CR than a shield suit vs a SCR. ****, id wager my SCR kills shield heavies faster than my pro 5 HMG kills armor heavies.
Prof 5 SCR user and i support +15/-15
1. Tac AR has more damage per bullet, receives a better damage bonus against armor and has the same ROF has the Scrambler. The scrambler can charge but it looses DPS with a charge shot. The TAC is more effective than the SCR yet nobody criea about it.
2. Depends on how you fit your suit. If Dual tanked or biotic tanked, yeah.
3. Shields used to be OP. Even when everyone was running a shield based suit, I could barely see any SCR in the fields.
4. I can take out a suit in 2-3 shots. 4 if it's a shield suit. And depends. If it's a seninel, they get a splash resistance. But if I can land a direct hit, hell yeah. Now if I see a heavy basic frame I would still use my MD.
I have all Assaults and my survival rate is similar in all suits except one and that one is the MinAss which I can outperform easily in that one.
Other than that when I use my CalAss and hear hear a SCR I will try to stay out of its sight or wait for my team to kill said SCR user. It's all abouy situational awareness and knowing your weakness.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
852
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Posted - 2015.01.24 17:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sir Dukey wrote:Buwaro Draemon wrote:So I am starting to see the ever increase petition to make the scrambler rifle have a 15/15 profile because Laser weapons are too good at taking out shields even tho that's what it is meant to do!
Now, part of this problem I think comes from thanks to the over abundance of Anti-Armor weapons. Face it shield users. There are more Anti-Armor weapons in the game AND the most used weapons in matches are Anti-Armor so anyone with a shield suit is not used to almost any weakness. If you take that into the shield suit users whining, it means that they are so used to get git with weapons that do minimal damage to their shields, that when a specialty weapon designed yo destroy shields comes inyo play, they cry and whine how said weapon is OP.
Now for damage profiles. There are currently 5 damage profiles.
Plasma +10/-10
Rail -10/+10
Projectile -15/+15
Laser +20/-20
Explosive -20/+20
Now look at that. 3 damage profiles designed to take out armor. Yet do you see any armor suit user complaining about these? Do you seeany armor suit user complaining how the Projectile and Explosive chew right threw armor like it was nothing? No. Even if RR, HMGs and CRs are the most used weapons in the battlefield, you almosy never see an armor suit user whining about.
But now, if a Laser weapons comes into play, a shield suit user will scream for a nerf to it's profile. Again, this most likely comes do to the over abundance of Anti-Armor weapons and them being so used to be getting hit with those that when an Anti-Shield weapon comes out, they think its OP.
Can the weapon use some changes? Yeah. Does the damage profile need some chanages? No. Is there a weapon that does 1000 DPS to armor? Until then, stfu and let me complain. Also, Armor suits naturally have more armor than shield suits have shield. I believe the weapon you are looking for is called the HMG.
And naturally? Naturally Caldari and Gallente suits mirror each other. Same eHP stats, stamina, everything.
Min and Amarr are the different ones. Amarr gets more eHP but is slower while Min gets less eHP while being faster.
Now modded, shields do have a natural high shield regen. So you guys can't have high HP and high natural regen in one suit.
Now before you come throwing the "but you guys have repair tools and rep hives" I support the idea of shield suits having a light shield booster that lets them ignore the shield delay and begin rechraging the shoelds quickly and the idea of shields needing a damage threshold yo brake it's recharge phase.
And Rep hives were invented by the Caldari.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
853
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Posted - 2015.01.24 18:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:The problem is not the profiles, but the amount of HP armor and shield modules provide.
STD Shield = 33hp STD Armor = 85hp
See the difference? I do. But alot of peoplw stopped using the Armor platets since the strafe penalty was added. Now almost everyone uses ferroscales.
I do agree that shield extenders also need a lil something. Mayne adding 10 extra HP to each one will help it out.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
857
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Posted - 2015.01.24 20:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
DRT 99 wrote:Relatively sure ferroscales outperform extenders as well. I know they do at proto. proto ferroscales are at 75 hp.
On an unrelated note: Max Skills Proto extender: 72 point whatever HP Unskilled militia armor plate: 85 HP Militia Rep tool: 40 HP/s
Armor still has more buffer and equal, if not more, regen.
Look at the price difference, look at the fitting difference, look at the SP difference But that repair tool takes a guy iff the battle whom could be doing something better. Not to mention an easy prey.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
857
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Posted - 2015.01.24 20:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
DRT 99 wrote:Buwaro Draemon wrote:But that repair tool takes a guy off the battle whom could be doing something better. Not to mention an easy prey. He doesnt have to be repairing ALL the time, especially with just a basic or mlt rep. repping after the fight or from around a corner while heavily damaged. Still takes one man off the battle. The more people repping, the easier it is for other objectives to be captured.
But I am not one sided. I support the idea of having a module on the high slots or an equipment to help bypass shield recharge delay.
But not an overall shield repair tool that works exactly like the armor one. That would be too OP.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
857
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Posted - 2015.01.24 20:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
DRT 99 wrote:Buwaro Draemon wrote:But not an overall shield repair tool that works exactly like the armor one. That would be too OP. An item, identical to another item that already exists, but for use with a non-meta , underperforming tanking style, would be OP. Lol OK. It is. Just because you are shield bias doesn't mean it won't make it OP.
A tool or module to make it pass the recharge delay with a 10 or 20 shield boost is enough to make shield suits better. I preffer the option of a module tho.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
857
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Posted - 2015.01.24 20:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sinboto Simmons wrote:Buwaro Draemon wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:Buwaro Draemon wrote:So I am starting to see the ever increase petition to make the scrambler rifle have a 15/15 profile because Laser weapons are too good at taking out shields even tho that's what it is meant to do!
Now, part of this problem I think comes from thanks to the over abundance of Anti-Armor weapons. Face it shield users. There are more Anti-Armor weapons in the game AND the most used weapons in matches are Anti-Armor so anyone with a shield suit is not used to almost any weakness. If you take that into the shield suit users whining, it means that they are so used to get git with weapons that do minimal damage to their shields, that when a specialty weapon designed yo destroy shields comes inyo play, they cry and whine how said weapon is OP.
Now for damage profiles. There are currently 5 damage profiles.
Plasma +10/-10
Rail -10/+10
Projectile -15/+15
Laser +20/-20
Explosive -20/+20
Now look at that. 3 damage profiles designed to take out armor. Yet do you see any armor suit user complaining about these? Do you seeany armor suit user complaining how the Projectile and Explosive chew right threw armor like it was nothing? No. Even if RR, HMGs and CRs are the most used weapons in the battlefield, you almosy never see an armor suit user whining about.
But now, if a Laser weapons comes into play, a shield suit user will scream for a nerf to it's profile. Again, this most likely comes do to the over abundance of Anti-Armor weapons and them being so used to be getting hit with those that when an Anti-Shield weapon comes out, they think its OP.
Can the weapon use some changes? Yeah. Does the damage profile need some chanages? No. Is there a weapon that does 1000 DPS to armor? Until then, stfu and let me complain. Also, Armor suits naturally have more armor than shield suits have shield. I believe the weapon you are looking for is called the HMG. And naturally? Naturally Caldari and Gallente suits mirror each other. Same eHP stats, stamina, everything. Min and Amarr are the different ones. Amarr gets more eHP but is slower while Min gets less eHP while being faster. Now modded, shields do have a natural high shield regen. So you guys can't have high HP and high natural regen in one suit. Now before you come throwing the "but you guys have repair tools and rep hives" I support the idea of shield suits having a light shield booster that lets them ignore the shield delay and begin rechraging the shoelds quickly and the idea of shields needing a damage threshold yo brake it's recharge phase. And Rep hives were invented by the Caldari. I'd like to point out that the HMG is a heavy weapon, scrambler is light. By that logic the plasma cannon and forge gun should have similar damage output? sorry but that excuse doesn't make sense to me. You make some good points here, but that one is just odd... He asked for a weapon and I gave him one. Also it's not like HMG heavies are rare. There more than common nowadays.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
857
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Posted - 2015.01.24 20:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
DRT 99 wrote:Buwaro Draemon wrote: It is. Just because you are shield bias doesn't mean it won't make it OP.
A tool or module to make it pass the recharge delay with a 10 or 20 shield boost is enough to make shield suits better. I preffer the option of a module tho.
Im hardly shield biased - most of my suits are armor. I really want to like shields but they suck. how would that make them OP? Lets do a little comparison. 'No Delay' Shield Rep tool Armor: 125hp/s or more core focused. More believably, 75 hp/s BDR8 rep tool. No sacrifices as far as the person being repped goes - full brick tank all you want, just gives the repper more WP. Shields: 40-80 HP/s. Increasing that requires trading some buffer. Still has less buffer than armor suits Lower regen, lower buffer. Totally OP. 'Literal clone of armor rep tool' shield rep tool Both shields and armor have the same HP/s. No negative for stacking buffer in either case. Shields end up with equal regen, but still have less bufer and damage. Still totally OP. Heaviea getting mutuly shield and armor repped would be OP.
Add a damage threshold to brake shield recharge cycle, add the module to bypass shield recharge delay, make shield extenders have 10 more HP and shield suits would be in a good spot.
A shield booster module for shield suits would be more than better for them. A shield repair tool would encourage more sentinel spam. THAT'S why it's OP.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
857
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Posted - 2015.01.24 20:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
DRT 99 wrote:Buwaro Draemon wrote:Heaviea getting mutuly shield and armor repped would be OP. A shield repair tool would encourage more sentinel spam. THAT'S why it's OP. Heavies getting repped by a shield rep tool and an armor rep tool wouldnt be any more OP than a heavy getting repped by 2 armor rep tools. Current armor rep tools already encourage heavy spam - you want those removed? Shield rep tool would only ecourage shield heavy spam to be AT MOST equal to armor heavy spam. Dont forget that the shield heavies that would be getting repped (at the same speed as the armor heavies) would still have less total HP and do less damage. Ah, but here is the thing. Caldari Sentinels are not meant for HMG vs HMG fights They are meant for long range combat and goof AV platform (Forge Gun) so you're argument is invalid. Not every suit in the gameus suppose to be made for CQC fighting.
And shield repair tool WOULD encourage more sentinel spam on Domination. Just imagine an Amarr Sentinel with unbreakable shields and armor. No. A module that works similar to the vehicle shield booster would be more than enough.
The more I go on with you, the more you seem like Ydub's alt. If that's the case, there is not seeing any reason and you are not worth the arguement if all you want is for shields to work exactly like armor. Even tho they are not the same.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens Capital Punishment.
857
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Posted - 2015.01.24 21:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
DRT 99 wrote:Buwaro Draemon wrote:Snip re: cal sent not being for HMGs - it doesnt get a bonus to FGs or HMGs, it can use HMGs just as well as the amarr heavy. Thats like saying amarr assault isnt supposed to use an SMG, its sidearm is supposed to be a scrambler pistol. I dont want shields and armor to be the same - i just want shields to not suck. the point is that currently shields have significantly less HP and damage than armor suits, meanwhile armor has just as much regen because of rep hives and tools. ill admit i got alittle carried away with that rep tool talk Not saying that you can't use an HMG on CalSent but I'm saying that the CalSent is not meant for CQC fights. You will be outperfomed by Gallente and Amarr Sents.
For example I will list all race's fighting style: Amarr: Stand and deliver. Great for taking heavy punishment and dealing heavy punishment. Gallente: CQC fights and flankers. Enough said. Minmatar: Run n' Gun similar to CoD style gameplay. Caldari: Long range fights.
Okay, now, I can slap an ScR on my Gallente and try to perform like the Amarr fighting style. But if I encounter an Amarr whilst doing this, the Amarr suit will beat me.
If I use a Caldari for CQC fights and encounter a Gallente. The Gallente will obviously destroy the Caldari.
If I use a Minmatar for Long Range fights with the RR and I see an enemy Caldari doing the same, the enemy Caldari will beat me.
You can mix and match however you want in this game. This is what'a great about it. But if you encounter a suit fighting within it's strength, you will lose.
Hell even the each race's special weapons can help you tell their fighting style.
Amarr: Laser Rifle (stand and deliver) Gallente: Shotgun (CQC fight) Minmatar: Mass Driver (can be used to stand and deliver but it is better used for running around and exploding everything in your way) Caldari: Sniper Rifle (long range combat)
Now if a Caldari suit user has an RR and plays within its intended fighting style with my added propositions of a damage threshold to brake shield racharge cycle and a shield booster module would gelp this suit perform extremely well within it's intended combat style.
Changes to Damage mods!
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