DUST Search - AV feedback

THUNDERGROOVE wrote:

Shamarskii Simon wrote:

Since you have access to some variables, do you also have access to some code also? I want to see if Breakin's homing theory is true.

To be specific what I'm looking for is a thread that updates the location which sleeps every 'X' milliseconds. And if it is possible to increase the number of iterations the loop structure would go through.

(UNSURE IF THIS IS HOW SWARMS WORK, DON'T QUOTE ME ON THAT*)

If that can't be seen/can't be posted (unsure if there'll be any legal problems) I understand.

^ if it cannot be seen, is it okay to ask a dev specific questions relating to the code?

* sorry for the caps, phone is dying and well i'm typing in quick reply *

I have a bit over 600,000 lines of code which includes some standard libraries. I had to decompile Python bytecode. I won't release anything but I can make sense of it for you if it's there.

The thing is, most of the stuff that is in Python is stuff like UI, out of match networking, etc. It looks like all the firing stuff isn't there though, so it's probably implemented elsewhere.


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Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 57	Posted - 2015.01.24 12:59:00 - [1] - Quote Plasma Cann: great anti shield AV, able to reload and fire before shield recharge begins. Needs to be heavily skilled to be truly effective (reload and prof). I say it's the most SP expensive AV (since the higher the prof, the closer to "good" it gets.). At prof 5, it does a fair bit of damage to shield vehicles. Predicting the "traveling" parabola is the most useful thing someone needs to learn to unlock the full potential of the cannon. ^ to use the cannon as effective AV, devoting skill points AND player skill is a must, one cannot simply just pick up a cannon and expect to be good w/ it. If the cannon is buffed, don't make it more than 250/300 damage (< still more than needed imho) (S = shield, A = armor) 1501 -> 1751/1801: 1501 * prof 5 (1.26 [sic]) = 1891.26s/1350.9a -> 1751 * prof 5 (1.26 [sic]) = 2206.26s/1575.9a. We are aware shields have lower hp pools and a recharge time. The 1751 allotek can 3 shot a sica, 4/5 shot a well built gunny. Hopefully cann tourists will understand it is a prof it up, or don't use it at all due to the higher difficulty accompanied with low skills. Thanks for reading. Edit: It is the only AV weapon I have prof'd out. (and when i prof out a weapon, i have to prof out my knowledge of said weapon.) If you have any questions (as a PLC user) and no one is available, i'll gladly answer. Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 57	Posted - 2015.01.24 14:14:00 - [2] - Quote Alright can we stop arguing for the sake of AV balance? Don't make this thread become another waste full of complaints. Please? There will never be balance if we cannot even balance ourselves between reason, emotion, and logic. Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 58	Posted - 2015.01.24 14:58:00 - [3] - Quote The PLC's charge time + reload speed determines the ROF, 0.375 is the charge time at proto ( 0.5 x (1-25%) = 0.375) Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 58	Posted - 2015.01.24 15:27:00 - [4] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: The PLC's charge time + reload speed determines the ROF, 0.375 is the charge time at proto ( 0.5 x (1-25%) = 0.375) Check my sig. I have all the PLC numbers loaded. Thanks, reading it as i type Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 58	Posted - 2015.01.24 15:45:00 - [5] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: The PLC's charge time + reload speed determines the ROF, 0.375 is the charge time at proto ( 0.5 x (1-25%) = 0.375) Check my sig. I have all the PLC numbers loaded. Thanks, reading it as i type Laser you have a point, but forcing your opinion / being negative takes away the meaning. Humanity sees negative before positive (i can do 1000 good, but 1 bad will take it all away), it's up to you how you want people to see your posts. Yknow what i mean? 1. Im a negative person when it comes to vehicles, all i have seen in this game is nerf nerf nerf and more nerfing to vehicles since it began so anything positive i take it with a pince of salt because if they are good infantry will get them nerfed again and the cycle will never be broken and vehicles will never progress from WP pinatas to actual useful assets to have on the field I understand, now that you explained how you feel (as i am a ADS pilot myself) I will now know how to respond to you. Sorry. Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 58	Posted - 2015.01.24 16:13:00 - [6] - Quote Anyways, back on topic. The DPS of the cannon doesn't truly matter (shields has recharge delay) it's the matter of the number of rounds it takes to kill. MINA makes a point though, the reload could be faster (fighting a tank at 20-40m) because the time of charge + reload = (approx.) forge gun charge (FG = 4 to fire, PLC = 0.6 charge + 3.5 reload = 4.1 to fire; FG = PLC +/- 0.1s) I understand the PLC is a light weapon so, if the reload is too quick it'll offset its anti-infantry ability. Nevertheless, a quicker reload affects the AV ability positively, but too high a reload might offset the weapon in general. how about between AFG and FG? 3.5 seconds? 3 sec reload, 0.5 charge time? (lowering reload to 3, charge to 0.5) Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 61	Posted - 2015.01.24 16:59:00 - [7] - Quote Margin of error: a range where the swarms cannot turn. (how i understood it) I'm gonna try to explain this w/o a picture. See a baseball diamond? The swarm is homebase and the angle between 1st and 3rd is the "FOV." If swarms predict movement rather than following (targeting the front of the ship) AND can only turn as far as it's FOV, i believe it's dodgeable (cannot surpass the "error" zone) Now, small tweaks to the FOV and how far it predicts and maybe inertia (tight turning at full speed is impossible) addition... Would be good. Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 61	Posted - 2015.01.24 17:14:00 - [8] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Breach is not a viable AV weapon by itself. If there is an open field (no where for cover perse) the breach is alright. A wyr breach can 1 shot a base armor incubus at armor. Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 61	Posted - 2015.01.24 19:08:00 - [9] - Quote But if swarms have full range, wouldn't that means swarms can control a great distance, rendering an entire 400m sphere vehicle-less? Or am i understanding you wrong breakin? Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 61	Posted - 2015.01.24 19:20:00 - [10] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: But if swarms have full range, wouldn't that means swarms can control a great distance, rendering an entire 400m sphere vehicle-less? Or am i understanding you wrong breakin? slower rate of fire means pilots still have more time to react and get to cover. I have a theory about how swarms track, and if I'm right I'm going to facepalm. I kinda understand but, the way rooftop camping is, i must disagree there. It'll be a nightmare to try to get them off the roofs, a swarm proof myron would be the only way. Share your theory? I would like to know what you think if you don't mind. And, is it able to find a way to dodge swarms by any chance? I would want to know your ideas/opinion too Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.

Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 61	Posted - 2015.01.24 19:35:00 - [11] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I think swarms update the target's last location based on a timer. So every... we'll say half second it updates the target location. So it bombs along on the last valid trajectory and THEN updates 30m later.so your dropship bolts around a corner where they should turn and ram. But they overshoot and turn the corner because they had not hit their update tick yet. It's a way to save processor speed by not having them update constantly and having swarms eat all of the calculation time. basically to fix tracking the algorithm needs to be reset to always zero in on the target rather than follow it's pathing. Ah! So what you believe the swarms' location is updated on a thread that sleeps every x milliseconds. I agree based on how jerky the swarms movement becomes (Fly backwards when you get swarmed and you'll see what i mean) Also if you descend straight down the swarms spin above you until the location is updated, and your descent is slower. ^ tl;dr, seems true based on what happens in-game But, why not simply update the location ahead or behind the vehicle based on the velocity towards/away from the swarms? I'm just shoehorning an idea to fix that, i dont know if that solves the issue. Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 61	Posted - 2015.01.24 20:05:00 - [12] - Quote I'm getting on dust now, if you guys would like to squad up/sync against each other for in game data? Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 62	Posted - 2015.01.25 18:34:00 - [13] - Quote Since you have access to some variables, do you also have access to some code also? I want to see if Breakin's homing theory is true. To be specific what I'm looking for is a thread that updates the location which sleeps every 'X' milliseconds. And if it is possible to increase the number of iterations the loop structure would go through. (UNSURE IF THIS IS HOW SWARMS WORK, DON'T QUOTE ME ON THAT) If that can't be seen/can't be posted (unsure if there'll be any legal problems) I understand. ^ if it cannot be seen, is it okay to ask a dev specific questions relating to the code? sorry for the caps, phone is dying and well i'm typing in quick reply * Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 62	Posted - 2015.01.25 19:56:00 - [14] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: Since you have access to some variables, do you also have access to some code also? I want to see if Breakin's homing theory is true. To be specific what I'm looking for is a thread that updates the location which sleeps every 'X' milliseconds. And if it is possible to increase the number of iterations the loop structure would go through. (UNSURE IF THIS IS HOW SWARMS WORK, DON'T QUOTE ME ON THAT) If that can't be seen/can't be posted (unsure if there'll be any legal problems) I understand. ^ if it cannot be seen, is it okay to ask a dev specific questions relating to the code? sorry for the caps, phone is dying and well i'm typing in quick reply * I have a bit over 600,000 lines of code which includes some standard libraries. I had to decompile Python bytecode. I won't release anything but I can make sense of it for you if it's there. The thing is, most of the stuff that is in Python is stuff like UI, out of match networking, etc. It looks like all the firing stuff isn't there though, so it's probably implemented elsewhere. Ah, it's in Python? Sadly I can't pinpoint what i'm looking for then (I've just started to learn Python so I can use Blender). How about some variables? Anything relating to vehicle speed/location? Or Swarm location? I think that's a good place to start. I expect some things to be serverside so I understand if it's an impossible find for some things i might ask for. First understanding the mechanics might be a good starting point, from there i think we as a community can rebuild swarms accordingly... -I know i'm asking for way too much with this one- is there anything like a JAVADOC there also? It could help us understand just what the variable is used for. P.S. i have a good feeling for this topic.. Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 62	Posted - 2015.01.25 20:29:00 - [15] - Quote Ah, thanks for the info. I'll consult you whenever i need a variable / line check. Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 64	Posted - 2015.01.26 02:22:00 - [16] - Quote A quick idea just came to mind. Why not give small blasters a 77/63 (the old rails' damage profile against vehicles) profile against vehicles. It's damage is already too low to break recharge but, it can give better combat support in the sense of AV. Rail = 90s/110a vehicle : 63s/77a infantry Missile = 79s/119a Blaster = 77s/63a vehicle : 110s/90a infantry This will cause: Rail - Superior AV capabilities, best at vehicle combat support. Some infantry support ability. Missile - the bridge between AV and AI, equally effective. Blaster - Superior AI capabilities, best at infantry combat support. Some vehicle support ability. Well, after hit detection on infantry is fixed. (Thunder that's your queue) I know hit detection is dealt with serverside but can you show some blaster variables that we can analyze? I Appreciate it!! Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 64	Posted - 2015.01.26 11:27:00 - [17] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: any chance you can find projectile velocities for Missile Turrets, Forge Guns, and Large Railguns? oh, and swarm launchers I actually have my tool for analyzing export data running at the moment looking for changes in between recent hotfixes. I'll edit this post with any findings with velocities e: Having the same issues when the SDE first came out, where types don't list the entities they use for projectiles. Dumping a list of all things in the Entity class for anything of value. If you manage to find the difference blasters went through, we can "tweak" small blasters till it's "better" on paper. And! You did say User Interface is in the .py right? A quick way to understand some variables is to see what info is displayed when someone goes over the weapon. I'll take some time after my exam to try and understand the large blaster variables. What if large blasters' worked with small blasters' version of dispertion? I'm guessing -> "m_AccuracyProperties.m_fStationaryDecay": 50, -> might be dispertion Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 65	Posted - 2015.01.26 15:23:00 - [18] - Quote If it's hardcoded, i hope they (CCP) used a constant. If they used code conventions you'll see a constant (ALL CAPS) at declaration. Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 65	Posted - 2015.01.26 16:12:00 - [19] - Quote The most i can hope for is dodgable swarms. Same speed, looser turning radius (80 degrees is still too high... 65-50 degrees is my guess.) and, a few other things... Like inertia. But start inertia, turning circle next Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 65	Posted - 2015.01.26 16:59:00 - [20] - Quote The assault forge gun should be weaker than the standard version. I understand it's not a big difference but... It's an assault weapon (lower damage, higher rof) it shouldn't be both stronger and quicker charge. That's just a thought though. Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.

Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 65	Posted - 2015.01.26 17:19:00 - [21] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Shamarskii Simon wrote: The assault forge gun should be weaker than the standard version. I understand it's not a big difference but... It's an assault weapon (lower damage, higher rof) it shouldn't be both stronger and quicker charge. That's just a thought though. Actually I wanted to set the alpha strike of the standard directly between the breach and assault. Works out. In the sense of stronger tanks, does that mean stronger dropships? in the sense of slots, ehp or both? Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 66	Posted - 2015.01.26 23:27:00 - [22] - Quote THUNDERGROOVE wrote: To clarify, the data I'm getting is from a serialized Python object which I used CCP's internal script which ships with DUST for whatever reason which is modified to export everything to the SDE instead of just what they want to export. I then use the database file with my custom tool to get attributes easier. As for the stuff with projectile velocities, I gave up after letting it run for 2000 individual entities to try to find the typeID. When I get time, I'll re-write the method to make it faster and more memory efficient. Good luck! Would help if i knew Python at all. So the order we looking at is this: PLC, Swarm, forge > large turrets, HAVs >> DS > ADS, small turrets >> LAVs? If that made any sense. I'll talk to some people in 1st Airborne for some swarm suggestions, i'll post about the fair/viable ones. Later i'll make a mega post with other peoples' opinion/ideas (i.e when i get on a computer) Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 67	Posted - 2015.02.01 00:14:00 - [23] - Quote Took a little break from dust... ANYWAYS! Into the matters. Firstly, any arguments, deal with it personally (queue sync a factional or something...) please? Secondly, a lock on warning is not a bad thing... HOWEVER, it could lead to people adapting (i.e: AB away asap). Now this will come down to one thing, the time it takes before you hear the warning klaxon. Will it be half way in the lock? Once fired? Thridly, someone in 1st airborne had a great idea: "shoot at swarms," he said. Knowing hitting them will be a miracle, i understand that it's not that bad of an idea. Fourthly, anywhere a dropship can reach, 2/3 ladders should reach there. Hell maybe a hackable elevator. Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 67	Posted - 2015.02.01 01:26:00 - [24] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Haven't read the full thread, I will eventually but have to add: PLC is best AV i do agree PLC is the best AV for close range engagements. Would you say a 100-250 buff to damage is good/too much? Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 68	Posted - 2015.02.01 04:13:00 - [25] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: It's not 1/4 dmg when enemy has been beaten back from [objective] and 3-8 players with nothing to shoot switch over to swarms. That still ends up being a lethal threat albeit a technically inefficient one. I hate autocorrect. Any argument predicated on multiple people focusing fire being a balance concern isn't one I take seriously. I understand what MINA is saying though, but it's something that cannot be "balanced" per se. I think MINA is saying this: "OH a vehicle passed a supply depot, so lets all switch to AV to get some damage points. Oh, the vehicle left? Okay lets all switch back now." ^ rinse and repeat. The way i realized how this is how some think is in dom. My squad is rushing the depot, i fly near by (rail incubus, so i'm in a position looking for any vehicles approaching my squad/team) the enemies first begin defending the depot, but then switched to AV. It was suicidal yes (the entire kill feed just turned green), but why did they switch to AV while they are being attacked? Easy warpoints (damage points). As in supporting MINA's point, rarely there is NOT dedicated AV players... It's just "oh you killed me?" "oh you came near the depot?" and other things of the ilk. But now multiply that by the lock distance change. RedRails? RedSwarms too. Camping the depot? No vehicle ever coming close. (I hope I understood you MINA) But that's something that cannot change... lots of people switch, fire two rounds, switch back. Changing that changes infantry, which is too much of a change just for AV balance nevertheless. Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.
Shamarskii Simon The Hundred Acre Hood RISE of LEGION 68	Posted - 2015.02.01 04:22:00 - [26] - Quote I definitely take out the depots first -- even when my squad tries to hack it. Entering the void and becoming wind with my repbus.